Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moogle Mafia

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete and Userfy —Mets501 (talk) 15:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moogle Mafia

ATTENTION! If you came here because somebody asked you to, or you read a message on a forum, please note that this is not a vote, but rather a discussion to establish a consensus amongst Wikipedia editors on whether an article is suitable for this encyclopedia. We have policies and guidelines to help us decide this, and deletion decisions are made on the merits of the arguments, not by counting heads (or socks). You can participate and give your opinion. Please sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Happy editing! Comments made by suspected single purpose accounts can be tagged using {{subst:spa|username}}.

Unsourced fancruft. Judging by Google, seems to be non-notable. Can't find any pages not created by Moogle Mafia members themselves. eaolson 15:23, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Delete — per nom. --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 15:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC) Userfy per discussion below --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 23:30, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom.--Nydas 16:22, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete gaming clans under A7/group. This particular bunch gets all of 40 unique Google hits, most of which are forums. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 19:43, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
• Moogle delete -- Szvest 23:36, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
• Whack per nom, gaming clans usually aren't notable. --Coredesat talk. ^_^ 05:05, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, kupo! Thatdog 05:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete nn group.--Andeh 15:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
• KEEP IT- - http://www.terraodyssey.com/~moogle/moogle_mafia_alliance.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.24.103.2 (talk • contribs).
• After filling in for kupofather (the true leader of the Moogle Mafia)on Zelderex, I can only say that the sheer number of messages I recieved when I took over asking where Kupofather was, only gives more credit to the fact that this clan is one of a kind and truely deserving. Bammin 00:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep it. As one of the biggest online gaming community, this clan deserves its space.--Headsman 16:22, 16 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Headsman (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
• Keep it. -- Its a community big enough for notability. Neferupitou 09:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Neferupitou (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
• Keep it. -- They deserve the respect and the credibility to have a piece of Wikipedia dedicated to them and their accomplishments as an online gaming community. --PestControl123 13:41, 16 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: PestControl123 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
• Userfy. -- As its leader i know more about this clan than pretty much anyone else. If you have any questions about it, please direct them to me. I ran the same google search as you and came up with 40 seperate websites that we are either on or that are talking about us. Of these 40 websites, only about HALF are forums (which makes sense... considering our name comes up more in discussions rather than... picture blogs or file shares i guess... <_<). Also keep in mind that we go by many different names, as some sites have character limits of 9-10 characters which does not allow us to use the full name. In such cases, we use the name "Kupo Clan" (which if you'd like i could add as an "also known as" under Moogle Mafia...) If you actually go to any of the games that we are in (A partial list was provided on the wiki itself) You would see that we do have as many members as we boast. Currently in zelderex we have 150 members in our main branch and roughly 35 in our side branch. In Urban Rivals, we have either 105 or 106 members. In xtratic war, there was a recent reset which left most of us stranded... we previously had 59 members but have since evaporated down to 17. In kingdom of loathing, we at one time had 60 members but i have not played in a long time and at last count i believe we have roughly 30. In outwar, we had just under 70 members but the admins banned half the clan for unknown reasons (They arent too talkative over there) so we're down to 20ish members with my account as leader suspended... On our forums we have a little over 300 members, but our forums are relatively new, as im sure you saw in the google search of our name, the first link "Xmbhost" was our original forums, we had roughly 500 members signed, and then the host crashed on us and we had to relocate... we lost everything, including the majority of our member email lists, and unable to contact the lost members to tell them what happened we had to just start over again, slowly putting the pieces of our clan back together again. I apoligize for the history lesson and the long post... if its too long, please let me know. I will check back here sometime tomorrow to see whats new. (BTW this is my first wiki post ever, so ive really got no clue what i am doing... i hope this is how you sign it and talk...) Oh yeah, Quote: Can't find any pages not created by Moogle Mafia members themselves To date, we have made 3 pages for us, by us. Our first clan forums (xmbhost.com/MoogleMafia), our clan website (www.terraodyssey.com/~moogle) and our current clan forums (www.gamingcomm.com/mafia). Just fyi. Note: for the time being i suppose you could call this a single purpose account (since i didnt make one before this, i usually just did stuff anonymously, but anyways, now that ive got the account i suppose ill actually tag my name to changes ;P Kupofather 14:07, 16 August 2006 (UTC)— Possible single purpose account: Kupofather (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
• After Doing some research And also after finding this message in my inbox, sent by a concerned moogle: Clan Mass-Message: everyone needs to go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Moogle_Mafia#.5B.5BMoogle_Mafia.5D.5D and vote that we keep the page. I would like to request that any moogles that come here DO NOT create an account for the sole purpose of voting to keep this on, as wikipedia really doesnt need the extra dud accounts, and it isnt the number that matters anyways, but rather the quality of the arguement. If you'd really like to be a part of it anyways, just sign your name after the Moogles against deletion header, and leave it at that (unless you feel you have something valuable to add...) Kupofather 14:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
• Moogles Against Deletion Kupofather, Brendamus, Neferupitou, Headsman, Bammin, PestControl123, zombiez, GeneralZap

• Comment: Notability guidelines have their foundation in a more important Wikipedia policy: verifiability. All articles here must contain information that's properly cited from reliable sources. If there is no metion of said topic in any reliable source, then Wikipedia should not have an article on that topic. Considering the above, if a reliable source (such as a well-known magazine) has discussed the clan, feel free to add it to the article and mention it here. You can follow any of the above blue links for the applicable guideline/policy. Any further discussion here should be based not on the number of people who support or oppose deletion, but on policy. I think we can safely assume that every member of Moogle would oppose the deletion, so there's no need for all of them to sign. If anyone has thoughts on how the article passes or fails Wikipedia policy or guidelines, then such discussion is welcome here. --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 15:01, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• Ah! I understand what you are saying now... Hmmm... *searches memory* The newsletter for one of the games we are very big on had an article on us... but im pretty sure you wouldnt count that... umm.... numerous forum discussion on us... but again, in the games we play... Well, i suppose that we probably dont fulfil your guidelines then... We've never had a real magazine (like one that is on the market) do a story on us so if you're looking for... credentials i guess... we are lacking. So do you just kill the whole article? Like trash it. or is it archived for later when we get a magazine article ;P Just wondering... Also, offtopic, but what is cruft? Kupofather 17:20, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • No, forums are generally not considered reliable secondary sources. One big reason this article is not notable is that it doesn't say why your clan is important from the point of view outside your clan. As for "cruft," see Wikipedia:Fancruft. eaolson 17:43, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

  Comment: If an article is deleted, it is removed from general display. I guess you could say it gets "archived" - at that point only admins and 'crats can retrieve the article, so yes down the road someone could request undeletion at deletion review if there becomes sufficient reason for the article to exist.

  There's an alternative to having the article disappear, however - if you plan on remaining at Wikipedia and editing other articles (and we hope you do!), you can request that the article be "userfied" - whereas the entire article is moved or copied under your username, and someone looking at you as an editor can see the information. Every contributing editor has the right to a (reasonable) user page and subpages where they can talk a bit about themselves and their interests (again within reason), of which retention standard are a bit more lax (assuming you do remain here and contribute to other articles). If you are interested in this option, you can change your vote opinion above to "userfy" --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 18:05, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• Userfy to Kupofather, the self-declared leader of the clan, who after doing research and asking questions has determined that it probably doesn't have what Wikipedia considers reliable sources. Rather than deleting the page, userfy seems better as the information would still be online and accessible to all on that userpage. TransUtopian 21:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

That sounds good to me. After really going through and looking at the other articles up for deletion and some of the ones that are fine, i can see the differences and this one really doesnt cut it yet. Maybe in the future (after i move to the real world and take over the southern half of america... i mean <_< You heard nothing ;P) Perhaps I could officially create something for this. But for now, that seems to be the best option. Also wondering, is there a tutorial for the proper etiquette for talk discussions like this? I notice that you write yours underneath mine, (rather than as a new bullet) but i dont know how to do that. If theres a FAQ or something like that that addresses this id thank you very much for redirecting me there. Thank you again for clarifying and being patient with me even though im still a noob with this wikipedia stuff. Kupofather 21:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Kupofather - thank you for your civil comments and discussion here. I've changed my opinion to "userfy" as well. I'll follow-up on your talk page with the info you requested as not to clutter up this AfD more. Cheers --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 23:33, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Um, shouldn't this AfD be closed? How do I flag down an admin for a non-emergency but should be done at some time? TransUtopian 20:21, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.