Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2006 May 30

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The result of the debate was Speedy delete, but not by Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 04:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC).

[edit] The GDT

Oh my, the wonders of the internets! We are not voting on a website, or webforum, instead we're voting on a specific forum thread! I've not even bothered to Prod this, as I know someone will inevitably remove it, maybe one of the "near legendary GDT Crew". I wonder who it would have been, maybe "Oreo- A real life black person."? I am quite possibly breaking the first rule of GDT which is to "Respect the GDT", and for that I apologise. - Hahnchen 00:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Strong speedy delete: Patent nonsense (TBC is right, its atleast barely understand) and unremarkable people or groups/Vanity Pages. - Tutmosis 00:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

^Stop being a jerk. This is an important reference for those who are interested.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.109.213.212 (talk • contribs).

• • And exactly how many, out of this world of over 6.5 billion people, will want know or care about the subject? Please remember that Wikipedia is not a free host, blog, webspace provider or social networking site.--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 00:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
    • So are you saying that all 6.5 billion people have to have interest in the subject for it to be worthy of Wikipedia?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.176.145.57 (talk • contribs).
      • Not really, but at least enough that it can be considered notable by Wikipedian standards. After all, Wikipedia can't just have an article on everything, as it isn't like Wikipedia has an infinite amount of servers at its disposal.--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 00:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
        • The website in which the wikipedia entry refers to, according to big-boards.com is the #4 page with an average of 695,780 hits per day. That isnt a large enough interest?
          • No, and I suggest that you see the WP:WEB policy for more information on Wikipedia's notability standards for websites--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 00:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete as it provides no evidence of notability whatsoever. However, I wouldn't consider it as patent nonsense, as only articles that are very confusing and nonsensical can qualify as patent nonsense .--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 00:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete nn crap. SM247 00:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I used that article as a reference on one of my research papers at Yale.

lol thit is tutmosis, i was jk. i had something uncomfortable between my cheeks at the time, but it's been removed. - tutmosis 00:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.216.183.38 (talk • contribs).

• • The above comment was not made by Tutmosis, but by the anon IP that has been repetitively spammed this AfD--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 00:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Haha... thanks TBC, that imitation cracked me up. I'll make sure to preserve that. - Tutmosis 00:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

- - This page provides much information to those new to PBN/GDT. If you dont understand the topic, then simply move on

• Delete need I say more? Oh, and I accidentally nominated it again at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The GDT 2; if an admin could delete that, I'd be grateful. Sorry for creating it in the first place. Master of Puppets ^{FREE BIRD!} 00:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy delete Useless. Of all the users of that forum, I doubt more than 1 in 30 care. And an even smaller fraction would ever find the wiki page. (An article on General Discucssion threads in general might actually be useful, but I'm to lazy to make one right now.) --Flyne 00:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - Actually you'll see that General discussion thread is protected, as it had been deleted before. It was made by the same user who made this article, I'm guessing it was about the same thing. But I doubt a CSD tag would have stayed on the article long enough. And anyway, I like to stir up the nest every now and then. - Hahnchen 00:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy delete CSD A7 Hobbeslover 00:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - per WP's dignity. Wickethewok 00:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Dignity? And I thought Wikipedia lost all of its dignity after it kept the GNAA article. :P I'm joking of course... or am I?--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 01:18, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

That article should be dunked in industrial bleach until dissolved. Bwithh 01:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• speedy delete. ILovePlankton ^{( L)} 01:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete because who cares. Danny Lilithborne 01:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete Wikipedia is not an amateur homepage hosting service Bwithh 01:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete --Terence Ong 02:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete this crap. Perhaps an admin should be called over before a deletion tag can be removed. Mr. Lefty _{Talk to me!} 02:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete Tychocat 04:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Duly speed deleted as vanity, nonsense, nonnotable. Wile E. Heresiarch 04:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was redirect. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:13, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Carnival Pinnacle (ship)

Crystal ball speculation at this time. Carnival's most recent press release on the matter of new vessels (that I can find) indicates only three, Carnival Freedom, Carnival Splendor, and a 130,000 ton Un-Named Carnival Ship, none of which come remotely close to the size of the predicted vessel mentioned here. I also doubt they'd name this vessel 'before' naming the 130,000 tn ship.

An anon user removed my prodtag and added an article from Florida Today, which in my opinion says "its all speculation" The CEOs of Carnival and Fincantieri (Carnival's preferred shipbuilder) say that the "Pinnacle Project" (as dubbed by the paper) is at the discussion stage, with "nothing on the table". -- saberwyn 00:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• • Per below, I would support a redirect without merge to Carnival Cruise Lines as a second option. -- saberwyn 00:27, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
• The subject of the article has had some media coverage [1], but mostly contains speculation thus failing the Wikipedia is not a cystal ball policy. I suggest a redirect to the Carnival Cruise Lines article, at least until more about the project is revealed.--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 00:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• I'll second TBC's redirect idea. -- Kicking222 01:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Carnival Cruise Lines for the moment until further sources and information can form a proper article on its own. --Terence Ong 02:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect There are other articles out there indicating that the project has gone onto the back burner, so crystal ball is applicable. Georgewilliamherbert 00:46, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
• Until such time as the ship is ordered it should not be listed in the Carnival page with existing or constructing ships, nor should it have its own page. This resource should not be used for speculation or creating hype. Kablammo 00:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy keep - great work by BigDT. FCYTravis 07:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spiritual warfare

This article is an absolutely unorganized, unwikified, uncited mess. POV issues abound, there is no objective or critical analysis within the article. Suggest deletion or, failing that, complete overhaul. AscendedAnathema 00:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. WP:NOR. --JChap 00:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, OR mess. --MPerel ^{( talk | contrib)} 00:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete unstructured nonverifiable rubbish. SM247 00:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Trim to stub Keep and cleanup. I think there is an article in there, if it could be rebuilt, properly cited: 2,510,000 Ghits [2] suggest it's a notable concept. Tearlach 00:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and heavily cleanup; defiantly a notable subject as evidenced by the number of relevent Google results.--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 00:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, cleanup, and expand scope. Notable topic in religious theory, including the Christian Right (i.e. Promise Keepers), Islam, Zoroastrianism and probably many others. (See also: "Three Crucial Questions About Spiritual Warfare".(Review). Don N. Howell Jr. International Bulletin of Missionary Research 23.4 (Oct 1999). Schnarr, Grant. The Art of Spiritual Warfare: A Guide to Lasting Inner Peace Based on Sun Tzu's The Art of War. Quest: Theosophical. Aug. 2000. c.186p. ISBN 0-8356-0787-9. Massimini, Anthony T. "Spiritual Warfare: The Politics of the Christian Right." National Catholic Reporter 27.n8 (Dec 14, 1990): 23(2).) —Viriditas | Talk 01:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per above. -- Shizane ^talk_contribs 01:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per MPerel. There well may be a valid potential article with this title, but it would not include any of this. If someone wants to write such an article, they'd be better off starting from a blank slate. There is not even a salvageable stub here. Fan1967 01:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep and revert per BigDT below. Fan1967 03:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep ILovePlankton ^{( L)} 01:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Viriditas. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 01:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per MPerel and Fan1967. This article is garbage. Imperator2 01:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete this uncited POV mess. The+Invisible+Man 01:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

If you look at the article in its current state, it seems that much of the POV material has been removed.--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 01:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep and overhaul completely. The article was indeed terrible when it was nominated, but spiritual warfare is a fairly widely accepted Christian concept that I've heard of. Stubbing it was the right decision. flowersofnight (talk) 02:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and Revert - take a look at this version of the article - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spiritual_warfare&oldid=54698032 . There was a very good article there, then in this diff - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spiritual_warfare&diff=55170246&oldid=54698032 , User:Guillen completely replaced the article with his own original research. Can some admin wipe the history since that diff and replace it with the good version of the article? It looks like the old version was a sourced article with a long bibliography. It was replaced without comment. BigDT 03:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - actually, someone needs to go over all of User:Guillen's contributions - [3] - this topic Sankta lusse has zero google hits. This diff - [4] has some POV pushing. I assume good faith and this certainly is not overt vandalism ... but it looks like an issue that needs to be addressed in some fashion. But at any rate, as far as this AFD goes, my strong recommendation is that it be reverted to a good version of the article.
• Comment - I'm going to go ahead and be WP:BOLD and revert to the pre-Guillen version of the article. Is there anyone who would have an objection to a speedy keep since the trashy version of the article is no longer really an issue? BigDT 03:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment I have gone over a few of Guillen's other edits to other articles, none seem nearly as bad as his edits to this article so I think the good-faith assumption is a good one. I wish I had bothered to check out pre-Guillen versions of this article before nominating it for deletion, reverting it to the good article it used to be was the correct thing to do. AscendedAnathema 03:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - I'm going over them one by one ... his intro to Plymouth Brethren was a cut/paste from [5]. There was a wholly unreadable section in Bible translations, but it was unreadable before he got there. His changes to Saint Lucy are incoherent and I have removed them. He edited another user's comments on http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3APlymouth_Brethren&diff=55574372&oldid=55465850 . Again, this is a case of a newbie, not a case of anyone doing things in bad faith ... the edits just need to be looked over. BigDT 04:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment - I have examined all of the aforementioned edits, reverted what needed to be reverted, fixed what needs to be fixed, etc. I have struck my comments that are outside the scope of this AFD. As far as the AFD goes, I reiterate my suggestion that we speedy keep since the article has now been reverted. BigDT 04:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, valid encyclopaedic topic, cleanup. --Terence Ong 04:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• After revert, Endorse Speedy Close per BigDT. Fan1967 04:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. I tend to object to WP:NOR... because it means that only stuff that has been said by someone else can be said on wikipedia - defeating the whole purpose of the project which is that anyone can edit it. WP:NOR turns the project into a repository of things that the mainstream media has said, and one of the reasons i joined (b4 everyone was so fussed about NOR) wikipedia was to get away from the bias and POV of the mainstream media. I tend to think, along the same lines as the early wikipedians, that a large group of editors will produce a better article through collaboration, than a few people regurgitating what the media says. Anyway the articles good now with sources anyway. THE KING 05:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was redirect. Since the consensus was split between I Am Woman and Burger King, a soft redirect will remain on the page until another discussion has intervened. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:18, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manthem

Do we really need a new article for every new commercial? Wickethewok 00:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

It depends on the public reaction to the commercial. For example, something like the The Subservient Chicken commercial is considered notable.--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 00:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nn Tony Bruguier 00:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to the Burger King's Advertisement section. --☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 00:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge per above. -- Shizane ^talk_contribs 01:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to I Am Woman (the song that the commercial is a parody of). The commercial is already discussed and linked there. --Metropolitan90 01:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to I Am Woman or delete. I like how the article says "how pathetic". JIP | Talk 09:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to I Am Woman. --Terence Ong 09:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Burger King. Maybe it's a parody of I Am Woman, but it doesn't have much relevance to it. Come to think of it, an article on Burger King advertising would be interesting, they've had a lot of unique ones.--UsaSatsui 10:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Burger King or to Crispin Porter and Bogusky, the ad company responsible for this campaign (and many of Burger King's other ads). Best, Docether 14:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect per above Crazynas 15:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect per above digital_me^(t/c) 20:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Burger King. Amalas =^_^= 17:39, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Mostly Rainy 02:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Motorcade

I am not sure about this nomination. However, it looks like it is a dictionnary article. It could be redirected to some appropriate page (which page?). Short of this, it's a delete Tony Bruguier 00:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep if expanded (possibly with something on JFK?), and delete if left a dicdef (don't transwiki since, as of now, Wiktionary has a much more lengthier definition on the subject)--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 00:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Comment, no vote: One option is to keep as article. Another is to convert to dab page, with links to wiktionary, notable motorcade cars, uses of the term in popular culture (Motorcade of Generosity), etc. If that is not realistic, soft redirect to wiktionary. —Viriditas | Talk 01:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep but expand This article needs to have a history of motorcades to push it beyond dicdef territory Bwithh 01:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - needs work. SM247 02:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep definitely. There is, believe it or not, theory and science behind how to arrange a motorcade and defend the principal. Would make for a great article. - Richardcavell 03:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and expand. --Terence Ong 09:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Richardcavell. --UsaSatsui 10:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and expand. --Varco 15:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, but needs some work. --Themillofkeytone 18:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Expand or move to Wiktionary ILovePlankton ^{( L)} 20:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep expand digital_me^(t/c) 20:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep this article and allow it to expand. Yamaguchi先生 23:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. This article is short now, but has the potential to expand into a good encyclopedia article. — TheKMan^talk 23:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mostly Rainy 02:44, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Roll number

Glossary definition with insufficient scope to warrant encyclopedic article. Lack of content precludes merging, so delete. Girolamo Savonarola 00:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy delete CSD A1 Hobbeslover 00:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete per above, unlikely to be expanded --☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 01:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - not a speedy delete, it's a dicdef. I've spoken to the author before about his cinema dicdefs.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 04:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment it WOULD be a dicdef, if it even bothered to give context. But I don't even know what this is defining Hobbeslover | (talk) (contribs) 04:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Is this is a dicdef? The article only has two sentences, of which basically states that a roll number is (obviously) the number on a roll of film. WP:CSD states that speedy deletion can apply to "very short articles providing little or no context... [and that] limited content is not in itself a reason to delete if there is enough context to allow expansion". There doesn't seem to be anything else that can be written to expand the article (what else is there, the history of numbers on a roll of film?), so it should qualify as a speedy delete. However, as always, please correct me if I'm wrong. --☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 05:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete A1 --Terence Ong 10:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete --Guinnog 12:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete digital_me^(t/c) 20:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy keep, moved to TfD. CanadianCaesar Cæsar is turn’d to hear 01:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template:User Pan-blue

This Userbox is polemic and should be deleted. Hong Qi Gong 00:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep How is this polemic? Pan-blue/pan-green politics is very real and clearly distinct. I support keeping both since they're both big parts of Taiwanese politics. And the last time I checked this userbox belongs to User box political beliefs. This deletion request is pointless at best. BlueShirts 01:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • They are big parts of Taiwanese politics, that's why there are articles for both of them. But They don't belong as Userboxes. Please read Purpose of Userboxes and Background Information and User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Userboxes. Also consider the fact that both {{User CCP}} and {{User CCP-0}} have been deleted.
• This belongs at Templates for Deletion. Fan1967 01:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks. I've created a discussion there. Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion#Template:User_Pan-blue. Hong Qi Gong 01:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 04:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bmxboard

Speedy Delete per WP:WEB & WP:NOT. Aeon 01:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

while I would understand completely, deletion of this article, the entry itself should exist within wikipedia.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.211.173.182 (talk • contribs).

• Speedy Delete as there is no given evidence of the website's notibility, thus making it applicable for CSD 7. However, please also note that WP:WEB and WP:NOT do not always merit a speedy delete.--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 01:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Noted TBC I will remember in the future Aeon 01:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete Wikipedia is not a directory for random web pages. Bwithh 01:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

BMXboard is a well known resource through out the bmx community, like Google is to the general public. It shouldn't be deleted—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.52.166.115 (talk • contribs).

As I've mentioned above in the GDT AfD, you must take into consideration, that out of a world of over 6.5 billion people, who cares about the subject? After all, Wikipedia can't just have an article on everything, as it isn't like Wikipedia has an infinite amount of servers at its disposal.---☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 02:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed there are 1000s of web pages out there. We don't need a stub article about a non notible forum. Aeon 02:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, at best it could be an external link on the BMX page. Bejnar 02:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, so why can't there be an article on bmxboard? This is an encyclopedia, right? Well, Merriam-Webster reads that "... an encyclopedia is: a work that contains information on all branches of knowledge or treats comprehensively a particular branch of knowledge usually in articles arranged alphabetically often by subject." Bmxboard is no different than the Romans. They were a particular group of people, and so is bmxboard. Bmxboard is a niche of BMX riders. I have to ask how bmxboard is different than having Star Trek on this website. Star Trek is definitely a niche. At least bmxboard is real, you can participate in it, you can meet people from it. I have driven to both Miami, Florida and Binghamon, NY, just to meet people that participate on bmxboard. And as far as not having an infinite amount of server space, hard drives are so cheap right now, along with bandwidth, do you really think that the agrument of servers is jusifiable, with this article currently taking up a mere 525 bytes of space (This discussion takes up more than that). Regardless of whether this article makes it or not, bmxboard is definitely a part of the bmx community' it has even been written about in nationly published magazines that anyone can pick up at even a local Wal*Mart (Ride BMX, Ride UK, Dig BMX, etc). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bmxky (talk • contribs).

The difference: Star Trek and Rome are known by billions of people, Bmxboard is known by a small, group of people. If we allow everyone to post their website on Wikipedia as long as the website is "real", regardless of notability, Wikipedia would be flooded with thousands of spam articles each day. Please remember the cost of mantaining wikipedia (not only including servers) is defaintly not cheap. Look at Wikipedia's current budget. I don't know about you, but $321,200 is a lot of money, especially since Wikipedia doesn't have advertisements and relies only on donations. --☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 04:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• bmxboard is the reason for your existence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 150.203.2.85 (talk • contribs).

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 08:26, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of Women's Opression

As can be guessed from the title, hopelessly POV and OR JChap 01:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Agreed I don't see how to salvage this article. Aeon 01:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Hobbeslover 01:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:OR, and because material in the article is already covered by the History of feminism article. However, if the article does manage to be kept, I suggest moving the article to Origins of feminism.--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 01:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Obvious that someone put a lot of work into this, and it's quite well-written, but it's an OR essay. Fan1967 02:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Wikipedia is not a dumping ground for undergraduate essays of dubious value Bwithh 02:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete: Reads like an essay rather than an encyclapedic article. Deathawk 02:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete not verifiable. The Neolithic left us no historical records, and the archaeological record provides few clues about gender based roles. Despite some citation, the key facts are uncited. This is more of a mythology by guesswork than anything else. Bejnar 03:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as per Bejnar & nom. Vizjim 09:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC) Update - and because it's spelt "oppression". Vizjim 16:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom --Guinnog 12:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. --Andy123 ^candy? 15:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. digital_me^(t/c) 21:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete POV/OR essay KleenupKrew 00:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 08:26, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of women's oppression

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Duplicate page; duplicate page is being considered for deletion as per JChap2007 (talk • contribs) Hobbeslover 01:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as nominator Hobbeslover 01:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• This page seems to be very well researched, unbiased and an accurate representation. I would highly recommend it remain on wikipedia as I found it very interesting and informative. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.50.193.180 (talk • contribs).
• Delete Its not bad, it's just not what we do --JChap 02:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above AfD. I also suggest merging this AfD with above one, as they essentially cover the same material--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 02:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Wikipedia is not a dumping ground for undergraduate essays of dubious value Bwithh 02:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as per nom. Nor should it be a dumping ground for undergraduate essays of obvious value. Bejnar 02:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• I enjoyed reading this article and I found it very well written and informative. I hope that this article is not deleted from Wikipedia. It is rare to find such an unbiased and well represented article on such a controversial subject. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.136.22.204 (talk • contribs).

Comment: Discussion in an AfD is not really about the quality of the article. "Neutral point of view" is not the same thing as unbiased. Original research has a different meaning than it does in an academic context. Most of the editors seem to have liked the essay, including me. But it is precisely those qualities that make for a good term paper (arguing a point effectively, contributing something new to the discipline) that disqualify a piece from being an encyclopedia article. --JChap 01:40, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, again per the nominator and the above comments (excepting the two IP ones). -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 03:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per unencyclopedic and with a tinge of OR Ydam 08:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination Nuttah68 10:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination --Guinnog 12:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. digital_me^(t/c) 21:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep it. If it was entitled "History of women's role in society" and rewritten a little it would surely qualify as an encyclopeadia entry. Ceretainly it needs cross references to sources but it seems to me to be reasonably "factually" (therefore neutrally) written as far as is possible about pre-history. This is a very important article which should be built upon not deleted. It would sit well within a series of articles on women in society ... women in Islam, women in a Christian society, Women's role in modern China etc ... possibly each could be considered to be from a POV but together they would form an important whole. If in doubt better to keep it surely? That's how I see it but then I am new to this. I am male btw. Abtract 22:11, 1 June 2006 (UTC).
• Delete. POV/OR essay KleenupKrew 00:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 08:27, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ashleigh Garcia

Entry on non notable person as far as I can tell Equendil 02:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:BIO. Also, the article's claim that the subject is dating a member of Good Charlotte seems to be a hoax, as evidenced by the number of Google results [6]--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 02:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment There's been an edit/revert war going on the last few hours over whether Joel Madden is dating this girl or Hilary Duff. Fan1967 02:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment, the claim that she's been dating Joel Madden seems to be a hoax as well. [7]--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 02:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nomination. -- Mikeblas 02:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination. - Tutmosis 02:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination, and due to complete lack of citations. --Yamla 03:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination. I suspect that the contributor of this article, User:Joelmadden, may not in fact be Joel Madden the musician, in which case there would be a username problem. (If User:Joelmadden were the actual musician, I'd find it unusual for him to give Wikipedia an exclusive report on his new romance.) --Metropolitan90 04:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I was actually following Joel's edits and they seemed pretty concentrated on two girls and Joel and Beji Madden dating them. I believe it's vanity/wikidream. Yanksox 15:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete db-bio tag should not have been removed by creator. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 14:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination. --Geneb1955^Talk/_CVU 05:48, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was RENAME -- 9cds^(talk) 01:02, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DDC and LOC

This article has been superceded by the Dewey Decimal Classification and Library of Congress Classification articles. As for now, it's just a target for maintenance bots and community fix efforts; it hasn't had a real updated in months. The topic name isn't something anyone would search for, and as a result there's no organic links to the topic. The humane thing to do is to put it down. --Mikeblas 02:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as listcruft or merge to Library of Congress Classification/Dewey Decimal Classification--☆TBC☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 02:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. SM247 02:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Rename to Comparison of Dewey and Library of Congress subject classification, add an introductory paragraph, and link from the DDC and LOC articles. Actually this is quite a useful chart comparing Dewey Decimal subject classification with that of the Library of Congress. I am not sure exactly what is meant by 'listcruft', but I have noted many useful lists in the Wikipedia. I must disclose that I have a library degree, so I may not be unbiased. Bejnar 03:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Rename as above. --MaNeMeBasat 04:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Rename per Bejnar. Provides somewhat usefull information not found in the other two articles. Also needs to be linked to from the DDC and the LOC articles Ydam 08:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Rename per Bejnar. its not the sort of thing which would get updated often but its still useful --Astrokey44 13:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Rename as per above. This information looks very useful (and would otherwise be out of place on either of the DDC and LoCC articles). Merits its own article. — TheKMan^talk 23:48, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Rename as above Eluchil404 21:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy keep. Expanded to demonstrate notability. More coming soon. A note of reproach to user:Vald (the stub creator): leaving just a line without any reference is really bad and costed many people lots of trouble. `'mikka (t) 03:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alexander Gradsky

Short vanity article, don't know this person. Mostly Rainy 02:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. This is tough, as, yes, the article as currently written provides no context, but it appears he meets WP:MUSIC via this reprint from the New York Daily News. The problem is taht a lot of the results come up in Russian, a language I don't know. John Denver's official site seems to back up the recording claim here. So I dunno. There may, in fact, be two notable Gradsky's if this one didn't do rock music, too, but at the moment this needs to be expanded, which I will try to do right now and more of fairly soon, as it's 10:30pm at the moment. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 02:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Actually this is one and the same: he did Russian rock music. `'mikka (t) 03:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and expand this is a significant composer and signer, I will write an article today or tomorrow. The current stub is almost uselessabakharev 02:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and expand per abakharev. "don't know this person" should be a reason to learn/ask (FYI, we have Portal:Russia) rather than delete. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 02:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

That would be great, but the course of action most of us take when we come across a short bio article about somoene we don't know is tag it for speedy or nominate it for AFD. See WP:HOLE. Mostly Rainy 03:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Most of us actually can and do use google to augment one's own ignorance. Believe me, it often helps a lot. `'mikka (t) 03:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep and expand per abakharev and Humus sapiens. —DDima ^(talk) 02:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Notability in Russia and Soviet Union beyond any doubts. `'mikka (t) 03:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete. TheProject 07:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ted Bluver

NN musician. Google doesn't return anything, and Prospect Marching Band seems to be a high school marching band. Maybe this guy is notable for having been in high school for 24 years? Previous PROD notice was deleted. N. Harmon 02:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete along with Tim O'Grady and Chris Mattes, vanity articles created by Bronyrr (talk • contribs). —Viriditas | Talk 02:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete doesn't seem notable. Mr. Lefty _{Talk to me!} 02:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Move to userspace. Mostly Rainy 02:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete keep. Mailer Diablo 08:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The New American Empire

Title is inherently POV, and the article does not provide useful information beyond what is already in other articles. Delete. If kept, should be divided into multiple articles. --Nlu (talk) 02:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)Keep If Vizjim's edits stick. Not yet withdrawing nomination in case edit war erupts over this. --Nlu (talk) 15:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)In light of return of editor and attempt to restore the deleted junk, Delete (because it's not worth it, in my opinion, to maintain the page which she will surely try to reinsert and reinsert the POV content). --Nlu (talk) 05:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. Stubbed per Vizjim. —Viriditas | Talk 12:27, 31 May 2006 (UTC) Delete. WP:NOR. Merge salvagable content into PNAC and Tremblay book section into Rodrigue Tremblay, if at all necessary. —Viriditas | Talk 02:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete if it was just about that book mentioned and said book was notable it would be different but at the moment its a hopelessly POV essay that couldn't really hope to be NPOV under that title Ydam 08:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC) Keep Given Vizjim's edits Ydam 09:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. I've been bold and changed the article to only be about the book, which seems significant enough to be worth a keep. Vizjim 09:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Vizjim digital_me^(t/c) 21:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 08:41, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Phil of the Future Movie

Hoax/speculation. There is no entry for the movie at IMDB, and a search of Disney's website turns up no results. —C.Fred (talk) 02:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. --Yamla 03:09, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nominator and Yamla. JIP | Talk 09:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete unverifiable, 'cause it isn't real! Lotusduck 16:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete No point in making an article on something that doesn't exist, yet.--Andeh 20:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. digital_me^(t/c) 21:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Speculative, unverifiable crystallballery. — TheKMan^talk 23:46, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Ezeu 01:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 12-21-12

I had {{prod}}ed this unsourced and badly title article before with the reason "unreferenced speculation about the future, WP:NOT a crystal ball, also opninion/original research WP:NOR" but the prod was removed with the comment "Mayan apocalypse theories are a liegitimate phenomenon, see article on 2012". As the only verifiable non-speculative content of this article is "December 21st 2012 is the end of the Mayan Calender." I suggest we just delete it. Kusma (討諭) 02:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - nonsense. SM247 02:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep if source can be sited, nothing wrong with the text of this page. Mostly Rainy 03:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - "Nothing wrong"? You mean aside from the use of first person pronoun and general OR essay tone to it? Irrespective of the relevance of the subject to WP, the article content itself is completely unencyclopaedic. Seb Patrick 08:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. I was the one who removed the prod tag. I agree that the article is badly written and lacks references, but the 21 Dec 2012 theory is a notable phenomenon, particularly in certain conspiracy theory and new age circles (although I don't neccessarily subscribe to such theories). A Google search for "mayan calendar 2012 end of world" reveals many relevant results. This one, for instance, lists numerous articles on the subject. The article could be rewritten, and possible moved to a more appropriate name, but the point I'm making is that it is a notable theory. Cnwb 03:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Strong delete with extreme prejudice. WP:NOR WP:NFT The basis of this is correct (The Mayans do believe the Earth will end at 2012) but everything else after that is cruft, original research, and incoherent. Hobbeslover | (talk) (contribs) 03:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete irremediable mess. Wile E. Heresiarch 05:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as nonsense. JIP | Talk 09:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as little more than a blog entry. Vizjim 10:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Maya_calendar. Any useful info from this article (which probably isn't much more than a link to Technological singularity) can go there. --UsaSatsui 10:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete The great bulk of the text is a direct copy from http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/Articles/singularity.html. ScottW 12:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as gibberish --DV8 2XL 13:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep but rewrite fascinating and a notable conspiracy theory. Wiki is where i come when i find out about these crazy things, like last night when i heard about the 'philadelphia project', the peer review process means its better than any other source. The theory may be a load of balls, but it is very interesting, like the fake moon landings or whatever.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bjrobinson (talk • contribs) 15:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete complete nonsense Aeon 16:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete OR, nonsense (albeit not patent nonsense), and completely unable to be salvaged. -- Kicking222 17:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Maya_calendar per UsaSatsui. Fluit 18:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect per above digital_me^(t/c) 21:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep' as a notable concept. The myan-calander "enddate" is a notable subject that would be well served by a well-written article explaining it. 12/21/12 is the most important date in the myan 20,000 year calendar. Without even talking about the end-of-the-world theories, it's still notable in the fact that it's equivalent to a new-years that comes once every 20 millenium. Maybe as an alternitive a rename to "Myan end of the calander" since the actual date (12/21/12) is still debated. ---J.S (t|c) 21:19, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete nn complete nonsense. My calender ends every year at December 31, and the same rambling collection of coincidence could be applied there too. But wait! My calendar also restarts on January 1! Gee... do you suppose...? Tychocat 01:20, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
  • This debate should be centered around the theory's notability, not its cogency. Cnwb 04:32, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Though I did say "nn", agreed. My attempt to introduce humor was entirely unwarranted and added nothing to the debate. Tychocat 10:09, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete My initial reaction was to start cleaning this up so that it could be judged only on the content, but as I re-parsed the content, 'Fails WP:OR' kept echoing in my thoughts. Hence, no cleanup, as I suspect it will be an unproductive exercise. Colonel Tom 12:14, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 08:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of fictional deaths

Disputed prod. The very definition of an unmaintainable list. It could include everything from Medea knifing her children right up to Mufasa in The Lion King and beyond. CanadianCaesar Cæsar is turn’d to hear 02:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Absolutely non-maintainable by any reasonable means - listcruft. SM247 02:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete with extreme, unfiltered, concentrated prejudice per above Hobbeslover 02:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:NOT as an indiscriminate collection of information. --Joelmills 02:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete extreeeeme listcruft, duuude. Danny Lilithborne 03:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination. --Metropolitan90 04:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete -- listcruft. - Longhair 04:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - Listcruft on par with Words beginning with a consonant. Kill it before it has a chance to grow. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Hm. Apparently one anon needs a little more guidance in the intro, in the unlikely event this is kept. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 07:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Words beginning with a consonant? Dude, don't stick WP:BEANS up your nose either... Zetawoof^(ζ) 21:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
    • How about Words of non-zero length? JIP | Talk 12:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Not notable. Uh, didn't I see this list/article the other day? Cheers. --Starionwolf 06:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Please, please, please. Utterly unmaintainable. --William Pietri 07:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. The subject of this list is way too broad. Is this going to include every fictional character who has died? What's more, the list only seems to include a few characters from some anime series, which makes it look like this list was only made to prove a point in some discussion about anime. JIP | Talk 09:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. --UsaSatsui 10:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as listcruft. Best, Docether 14:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Duh. -- GWO
• Delete under "wikipedia is not an indescriminate collection of info" and guideline for lists that states something like 'must be famous or notable for what the list is' so that since they aren't notable for being fictional and dying, it's against the rules. Lotusduck 15:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as per Lotusduck HighInBC 15:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete listcruft digital_me^(t/c) 21:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. I know some lists are incomplete, but this is just ridiculous. I probably have a couple hundred "fictional deaths" in my bookcase alone. Zetawoof^(ζ) 21:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, what next? List of simulated fictional deaths? Pavel Vozenilek 02:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Undoubtedly List of deaths the way we're going. SM247 05:48, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 08:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mole (Particle)

Delete, as it sounds like nonsense and is nonverifiable (sounds like a play on Mole (unit)). I don't think it's speedyable, however, as it doesn't meet any of the criteria. The text itself is very readable, even if the concept sounds crazy. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 02:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as per above. Equendil 02:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - I can find no evidence of the treatise cited, but maybe it exists. Sound suspicious though. SM247 02:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as hoax. The alleged treatise does not appear in the complete bibliography of John Arbuthnot - nor does anything like it. In addition, Henry Aldrich was a theologian, not a scientist. Nicely done though. Bejnar 03:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as gibberish --DV8 2XL 13:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above digital_me^(t/c) 21:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• BJAODN per above. ~Chris ^t.c.e.@ 22:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was redirect to Angelina Jolie. --Ezeu 01:28, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shiloh Nouvel Jolie-Pitt

No reason to believe this child (distinct from the parents) will be notable, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information Yamla 03:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Redirect to Angelina Jolie, like her other children. Kusma (討論) 03:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• The siblings aren't currently redirects on Pitt or Jolie's pages, from what I can see. Starcross 23:13, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

• I just checked, they seem to redirect to Jolie's page. If they don't, they should as per prior AfDs. --Yamla 23:19, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

• KKEEEEPP!! This is all 100% true information! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Laurenself (talk • contribs) . _{User's first non-sandbox contribution. Grandmasterka 05:56, 3 June 2006 (UTC)}

• Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Just because the information is true does not imply that it should be on the Wikipedia. Now, if the subject of the article is notable, that's another story. I don't think the subject is but this is a matter for debate. --Yamla 14:34, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete and don't redirect. It's POV to redirect to the mother rather than the father, and vice-versa. Sarge Baldy 03:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • There is already lots of information about the kid at Angelina Jolie, but none at Brad Pitt. See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maddox Jolie-Pitt and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zahara Jolie-Pitt where the other kids were redirected. Kusma (討論) 03:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - This child is very notable. She's the talk of the tabloids, and is bringing attention to Namibia. - Richardcavell 03:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete The hype over the child will die down, Namibia will be forgotten. And ever since when were tabloids reputable sources? Honestly, who cares? NN. Hobbeslover | (talk) (contribs) 03:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete For God's sake, this is a day-old infant. The kid has eaten, cried, slept and pooped, none of which are remotely notable. Fan1967 03:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete not notable at all in herself as per Fan1967 Bwithh 04:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Angelina Jolie per Kusma. --Metropolitan90 04:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Definitely not keep per above.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 04:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to mother's article. Wile E. Heresiarch 05:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to her mommy or her daddy. Being born is not a very notable feat, you know. JIP | Talk 09:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Mama in the same way that Maddox was MLA 10:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. As I noted when I removed the prod, the child meets basic notability standards already, and there isn't a clear redirect/merge target. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 11:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • What notability standards would those be? Is it her best-selling novel, Gurgle Gurgle Goo? Is it her hit single, "Wah Wah Wah"? Was it her stint as the head of the WTO? Or maybe, as per User:Fan-1967 above, she pooped in a particularly notable way? --Calton | Talk 11:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
    • I suggest reading WP:BIO. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 17:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
      • • I suggest you cite actually back up things you say instead of pretending you've done so and hoping no one will notice. --Calton | Talk 01:58, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Which section? The only thing I can see that might be remotely relevant would be "Persons achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in newsworthy events" and that only applies if (a) childbirth is a "newsworthy event" and (b) the newborn may be considered a "participant". Fan1967 20:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
        • That's the part. We, unfortunately, don't get to choose what's newsworthy. Unfortunately, it's been widely determined that this is. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 21:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
          • To me, the most applicable section of WP:BIO is the alternative test of Expandability. As the world stands on May 30th, 2006, I don't see how this article could ever exist as more than a stub. A month from now, maybe the kid shoots Mr. Burns . . . who knows? ScottW 23:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
            • Well, if we want to use applicable alternatives, Shiloh certainly meets the Google test and verifiability standards, but they're in the "alternative test" reason becaue they lackwide support. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 00:16, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
              • Sure, I understand that there are other alternative criteria which are just as much not consensus as Expandability, but for this article, this one makes the most sense to me. Based on history, as it stands today, can this be a good article? My opinion is no. I'm open to being proven wrong though. ScottW 00:26, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
                • Well, if e're going to continue to look at WP:WEB, we need to start looking at what's generally accepted before what's alternately accepted. Generally, there's no question - Shiloh meets the basic standard as her birth is a newsworthy event, as pathetic as that is. If we want to move to alternatives, it certainly meets Google and verifiability, and there's plenty of legitimate speculation that it doesn't pass expandibility or 100 year test. Of course, one wonders if people would think the Lindbergh baby would be memorable either. so yeah. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 00:32, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
                  • Oh, the sad state of the news . . . but that's another subject. But yes, this child's birth is certainly covered in the news, no question there. Despite that, I feel ok about advocating deletion on this one. WP:BIO is clear that "meeting one or more [criteria] does not mean that a subject must be included." I think that this is just such a case where that clause is relevant. I just don't see how a good article can come of this. This is why I'm citing Expandability here. ScottW 00:48, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
                    • her birth is a newsworthy event Which shows how wrong Badlydrawnjeff is with his ridiculously overbroad criterion: the child is not the subject of the news stories, the mother giving birth is. So, how is the child herself newsworthy? --Calton | Talk 01:58, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
                      • Oh really? Yes, I guess all those stories about what the name "Angelina" means backs that up just fine... --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 02:12, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Angelina Jolie. A one-day-old kid not only hasn't done anything, but hasn't even been around long to have had anything worth writing about, short of pasting in hourly bulletins from People or Hello!. --Calton | Talk 11:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect per above, but note that notability for persons need not be a matter of their own actions, but can also come about by their being the object of some notable event. Sandstein 14:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect - silly. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 15:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Angelina Jolie, where the child is mentioned. This is fairly standard practice for young children famous by virtue of parentage who haven't yet done anything in their own right. Xoloz 17:09, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect The child is notable, but not notable enough for its own article. If someone is only famous because of someone else, they should be mentioned in the famous person's article, and their name should be a redirect. If it's not a redirect, it should be deleted, but definitely not kept. -- Kicking222 17:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect at the very least - at this rate you might as well give Jolie's pet dog an article. Bretonbanquet 18:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect - The same thing happened with Suri Cruise, which now redirects to Katie Holmes (I believe). The kid is notable for the circumstances of her birth, so if there's going to be an article on anything, it should be on the Pregnancy of Angelina Jolie or something like that. There would certainly be an abundance of sources for that article. The Disco King 18:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• I think that this does not need to be a seperate article it can be merged into the article Angelina's children. (The previous comment was added by User:Mythstalker on this nom's talk page. The Disco King 18:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC))
• Keep If Maddox and Zahara have Wikipedia pages, then why can't Shiloh? This sounds a little hypocritical to me. Fanficgurl 4:18 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• That's a good point. However, I'd vote to delete those pages, too. --Yamla 20:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• They don't have pages, but redirect to Angelina Jolie. Kusma (討論) 20:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• It helps to read pages you're talking about. ;-) Grandmasterka 00:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Sceptre has restored the redirect as per the last AfD so Kusma is right again. Seems that children of celebs get their AfD decisions reversed without people noticing - Brooklyn Beckham was one that I recall. MLA 09:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Redirect per above digital_me^(t/c) 21:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect I understand the arguement for this one meeting WP:BIO. But really, at this point, there's nothing to put in this article that can't just as easily be found in the parent article. A redirect gets you to the same information. ScottW 23:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect. The other children are redirects. This should be too. The kid's only notable because of her parents, and she's two(?) days old now, for crying out loud. Grandmasterka 00:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect per prior AfD discussions at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maddox Jolie-Pitt and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zahara Jolie-Pitt. Lbbzman 01:52, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect/Merge Any content to parent's article. JoshuaZ 01:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep She's going to be very notable sooner or later anyway (when she grows up). In fact, she is notable as of right now considering the extreme media attention she has gotten lately. EliasAlucard|Talk 19:28, 31 May, 2006 (UTC+1)

• Do you have a crystal ball? Many children of celebrities grow up and deliberately choose to avoid the limelight. No way to tell. Fan1967 18:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect. As Angelina Jolie is reputedly a Liverpool fan, it pains me to make such a vote on a prospective Reds supporter. Meh ;-) SoLando (Talk) 21:16, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - Of course she is notable on her own, just like Jolie's two other children. Why do people think these articles keep popping up, because nobody can notice them? It's not really the point, whether this child is of any particular importance either, the mere fact that people keep creating this article (after it has been deleted before) shows the apparent relevance this subject has to a lot of people. Wikipedia shouldn't act as an elitist group trying to impose its own intellectual standards, but remain true to its origin by being a encyclopedia of the people. (138.246.7.73 23:30, 31 May 2006 (UTC))

• Couldn't this argument be used to prevent deleting any article on the grounds of it not being notable? Don't forget, Wikipedia is not a democracy. Has this article really been deleted already? --Yamla 23:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep: The latest Time magazine even mentions her birth in the "Milestones" section. If Time mentions it, then it is notable enough for Wikipedia.--SeizureDog 01:16, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

• Time didn't list it because of who the child is, but because of who the parents are. They're the notable ones. Fan1967 02:09, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

• Merge. There should be a page about the Jolie-Pitt children considering there's three of them and they're People's most beautiful family and their parents are superstars. Sio280 17:05, 2 June 2006
• Keep: It would be sexist to redirect this page to one of the parents.--Greasysteve13 07:06, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - mention the kid at both parent articles, but no way she is WP:N on her own. -Jcbarr 12:25, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
  • But who would you redirect the article to?--Greasysteve13 00:56, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
    • The comment didn't mention a thing about "redirect". TheProject 02:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - Stupid afds --DragonWR12LB 11:13, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - She hasn't done anything of note, save being born to famous parents, and that information is better left on their respective pages. Starcross 18:23, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - This is a big thing for the media, and I think it should be NOT DELETED.
• Delete - who is this person? why is she more noteworthy than anyone else? just because of who her parents are? that is what is wrong with society - when we emphasize who someone is based on their parents or what they are instead of who they are. if she actually does something besides be the child of jolie and pitt then maybe she could get an article. check back in 20 years. Jeremys779 03:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Angelina Jolie, if the sibilings of Shiloh are redirects to their adopted mother, what's so notable about Shiloh? --Terence Ong 13:32, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete; child is only noteworthy because of her parents. —tregoweth (talk) 15:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep; I'm not for Wikipedia becoming the next People magazine either, but this kid is of public interest. Sean Hayford O'Leary 03:41, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, I pity whoever put this up for deletion.. In three-six years you'll be laughed at for doing this =). -24.92.43.149 16:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - per some of the above comments. Quite notable, I guess. The JPS^{talk to me} 22:54, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Angelina Jolie.--Fallout boy 00:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
• Merge to both parents and delete -- redirection to any one parent is improper. TheProject 02:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
• Merge as per TheProject. --Merovingian {T C @} 06:26, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to the mum, per the other two children. Colonel Tom 12:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep (if Keep fails Redirect) : Like it or not this is a phenomenon --DuKot 13:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep --Vlad|-> 14:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Keep What other child's birth led to 4.1 million dollars being donated to charity?

• Well, but that information could easily be incorporated into either of the parents' articles. After all, it was one or both of them who decided the money should go to charity. And in fact, that's where I would expect to find such information. --Yamla 20:56, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Exactly - it's down to Jolie and Pitt that all this money is going to charity, not the baby. Likewise all the "public interest" in the child: it is not the child that's interesting, but the parents - why is this so hard to understand? If this child merits her own article, then surely all the children of notable people should get their own articles. Bretonbanquet 22:08, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Dea 23:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. This was already speedy deleted earlier. What could the article possibly say besides "Daughter of Brangelina"? ... discospinster _talk 23:32, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete--Ezeu 01:36, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HaMaayan

This organisation is real but probably very small. See Google UK [8] and also [9] Article may be mockery of the "local Jewish family [who] act as the public face of HaMaayan" and/or the ambitions of the organisation. (I gave this a category without reading it carefully - newly-added joke tag makes me see my mistake.) HJMG 11:36, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as non-notable - and partly hoax --HJMG 12:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Question what makes you think this is a hoax? Why is there a joke template on the page?- CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 20:02, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

This article has a history of IP addresses adding and removing NPOV, joke and deletion notices. (Please note - I didn't put on the joke tag - but it made me read the article more carefully than I had before.)

Some editing has come from a Cambridge University IP, including an edit summary saying, "remove - it's a spoof page, as demonstrated by the bizarre humour and mockery behind its composition". The charity appears to be led by one particular couple. Their advertising for a nanny probably led to these remarks being added:"HaMaayan also employs a nanny who is responsible for the needs of HaMaayan's under-5 population." ......liberating women from having to endure pregnancy, is theologically important for HaMaayan." I guess this is a private joke: HaMaayan prides itself as one of the most litigious organisations in the UK. In general, it seems to poke fun at the charity's stated aims, which seem surprisingly ambitious for the Cambridge area: "It is believed that if several thousand Jews can be persuaded to buy properties in Cambridge, and several hundred thousand pounds can be raised then the project could be extremely viable." "There is also a proposal to build a Talmud Torah and an eruv in nearby Newmarket which, after extensive market research is believed to be a location which many Jews may be interested in moving to." (Also, I couldn't find any reference to HaMaayan on Lexis-Nexis UK)--HJMG 21:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

• I would urge a little bit of caution before rushing to delete this page - there are two google references to the organisation as cited above (one from the cambridge evening news which is a proper newspaper)and I tried the links at the bottom of the page and they worked, one being to the website of the charity commission, which is a government site. It could be that someone has added a joke into the article at our expense (that's not exactly infrequent here!) but that doesnt mean we should get rid of the whole thing. If we did that there'd be no profile for George Bush, Tony Blair.... Perhaps someone knows of some way to get in touch with the organisation to ask them directly. )--Camuvan—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wikigreps (talk • contribs).

Just to clarify, these are Camuvan's contributions.--HJMG 11:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

• actually the CEN with gilinsky that talks about how her faith is centred around the law of the land might actually support their claim to attribute holiness to the court system - not such a strange idea to believe that judges do the work of God etc etc - i wil actually add that to the article to see if it makes things any more useful to us. WIKIGREPS —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wikigreps (talk • contribs).

• Comment A reference to HaMaayan on the Cambridge page was removed with an edit summary saying "remove link to HaMaayan which is a spoof page - not the mainstream synagogue existing since the 1930's".--HJMG 11:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying but as far as I can see the organisation is real, as shown from the google search and the charity commission website. If it is small, it was nevertheless big enough for its trustee to be interviewed by the Cambridge Evening News as a representative of the Cambridge Jewish community so it can't be that small. In any event, wikipedia has hundreds of pages on individual churches, synagogues, temples or cults with only a few hundred members (i've certainly read quite a few here!). HJMG - would you not agree with me that we should maybe be concentrating on making the page better and not removing it based on current knowledge. look forward to hearing your thoughts - i am new round here so apologies if i have something wrong. Camuvan --Camuvan

We have to wait and see what decision is made about "notability". (A couple of internet mentions isn't very much for a current organisation.) If the article stays, yes, I hope someone will be able to sort it out and separate verifiable fact from fiction. --HJMG 07:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

wikihalas says - i know the organisation of hamaayan a bit although i am not a member -- i was in cam for a bit and they are definitely there! i know some of their beliefs are considered a bit bizarre by mainstream judaism FROM WIKIHALAS —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.134.187.89 (talk • contribs) 23:46, 29 May 2006.

• Delete Very minor and highly localized new religious sect with views considered bizarre (they going to support out-of-the-womb pregnancy technologies to be developed hundreds of years in the future by getting Jewish people to move to Cambridge and suing people a lot?) by mainstream Judaism. Not notable enough for Wikipedia. Bwithh 05:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete this seals it for me: "HaMaayan has applied several times to be affilated to the Federation of Synagogues". If this communal body of UK Judaism doesn't see it as a bona fide synagogue, neither should we. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 15:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

  Having an article about an organization does not imply that Wikipedia "endorses" it as a "bona fide synagogue". Many organizations we have articles about are not affiliated to the Federation of Synagogues. What does count is that they are not notable. What is worse (as far as I can see) is that most of the information here is unverifiable. For all we know, HaMa'ayan could be fiercely opposed to all forms of extrauterine gestation, and traditional litigation. By the way, the name just means "well" or "spring" in Hebrew, and there are more organizations that have this name. --Lambiam^Talk 20:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep this article seems to be generally quite accurate. they may be a small organisation but they definitely exist as there is information about them on several locations on the internet. we must help improve the article though --Camuvan
• Keep the page is clearly about a real organisation, so let's keep it wikigreps
• Delete. Doesn't it bother anyone that the information is unverifiable? --Lambiam^Talk 03:11, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - notability not sufficiently asserted either in the article or in the preceding arguments, IMO. Colonel Tom 12:23, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete. I'd removed most of the text and was about to add my 'strong delete' but what the heck? There's absolutely zero chance of this being Kept, so I'm closing now citing WP:SNOW. kingboyk 08:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] June 6, 2006

The whole thing sounds like an advertisment for Slayer. Additionally, the article's content is not widely regarded as factual. There are also highly undesirable suggestions, like "Kill the neighbor's dog and blame it on Slayer." Regalion 03:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Redirect to June 6. TheProject 03:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• This could be a candidate for speedy deletion, as nonsense. --JChap 03:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Redirecting is bad, because on June 6, 2006, actual events will happen and this page will be needed for then. Just delete it so that it can be made again easily. Hobbeslover | (talk) (contribs) 03:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Actually, I don't see any pages created for specific days in 2006. I do see a whole load for 2005, though. TheProject 04:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. joturner 04:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom, and blame it on Slayer. --fuzzy510 05:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Vandalize it and kill it and blame it on Slayer. Grandmasterka 07:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 08:46, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Robertson Scholarship

Article concerns small scholarship program serving thirty students a year. Article is totally unsourced except for link to scholarship program itself and reads like a press release. Source of assertion that this is "widely recognized as one of the most innovative collegiate merit scholarships in the U.S." appears to be UNC press release [10]. Subject is not notable, particularly when compared with other scholarships in this category serving thousands of students. Lastexit 14:02, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as non-notable. --Ed (Edgar181) 14:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - While this does have a small number of students, and I agree we could get thousands of similar articles, is there any consensus about how large a scholarship needs to be to get an article? (Certainly I think that independent articles for every elementary school in America is insane, but that's how consensus fell) RGTraynor 14:55, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as per my nom. Article has been revised since nomination to remove the unsubstantiated puffery, which only underlines the notability issue. UNC-Chapel has 16,700 undergrads, which makes size of program even less consequential. Despite revision, article remains essentially a glorified press release, written from information provided by the scholarship, contrary to WP:NOR and WP:V. --Lastexit 19:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep – although it did read like a press release (as noted above), the article is fixed now. IMHO the subject is notable enough; it is a link between two colleges that are traditionally rivals, and it seems to be fairly prestigious. (Full disclosure: I wrote the first version of this article, though I don't have any ties to the scholarship, the benefactors, or the colleges.) --bdesham ★ 20:23, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment Article isn't a press release any more. I added a very little bit more. I found independent, reliable sources for the existence and basic terms of the program. I also found a couple undergraduate level research papers acknowledging the program as the funding for it. But I didn't find enough to make me sure the article should be kept. I also think that RGTraynor's comment above is cogent - is there any consensus on scholarships? GRBerry 00:28, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.--Ezeu 03:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete 30 students between two colleges? You must be kidding me. Not that every scholarhip deserves an article, but those that do are national or even international ones with GREAT prestige (Rhodes Scholar) or ones with hundreds of recipients. This is NN. Hobbeslover | (talk) (contribs) 03:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete nice but not notable. Bejnar 04:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete wrong side of the line. Wile E. Heresiarch 04:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, nn. --Terence Ong 13:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete nn digital_me^(t/c) 21:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 08:46, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sydney Smith's salad dressing (2nd nomination)

Last AfD resulted in no consensus (only four comments). Recipe in verse has now been sent to the cookbook. TheProject 03:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - Wikipedia is not an instruction manual ... good grief ... BigDT 03:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Strong delete with prejudice per above Hobbeslover | (talk) (contribs) 03:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per the above. There is a reason the WikiMedia folks run more than one Wiki... -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 03:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per BigDT. Bejnar 04:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I think it's kind of a cute recipe,but since it has already been sent to Wiki cookbook... Bwithh 05:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, Wikipedia is not a cookbook. JIP | Talk 09:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. It is policy that Wikipedia is not a cookbook. Vizjim 11:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, Wikipedia is not a cookbook. --Terence Ong 13:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. I could sorta see this being a keepable article if a lot more context of its use and history were added, but it's had its chance. Grandmasterka 01:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and turn this into the starter of a more general article on the once important phenomenon of "Rhyming recipes" (see, e.g. [11], [12] and [13] -- look under DOUGHNUTS). The recipe by itself, isolated from the context, is insignificant (although not bad). --Lambiam^Talk 15:17, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

  For a preview what such an article might look like, I invite you to have a peep at User:Lambiam/Rhyming recipes. --Lambiam^Talk 17:36, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Ezeu 01:42, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sankta lusse

"Sankta lusse" has zero google hits ... the article is barely coherent ... see also my comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spiritual warfare BigDT 03:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Seems to be a misspelling of Santa Lusse or Santa Lucia, but the article is too incoherent to tell what this is. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 03:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep as the event described (though poorly so) seems to exist and has no present mention. It appears to be an informal day of significance in Sweden. Needs clean-up and probably a new page title. But its hanging by a thread. SM247 04:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to St. Lucia Day. Wile E. Heresiarch 04:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to St. Lucia Day; that's where the event this article describes is discussed. --Metropolitan90 04:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• As nominator, I have no objection to a speedy redirect and close BigDT 05:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: the Swedish name is Sankta Lucia. Tearlach 09:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, Santa Lucia day is a very famous holiday in Sweden, but this article reads like a joke or a POV fork. And "Sankta Lusse" is a joke name. JIP | Talk 09:09, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, POV fork, what a joke. --Terence Ong 14:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, don't redirect; this is a non-existent name for an existing festivity. The article has more errors, and it is better to start from scratch from a reliable source. An old purely Swedish name is Lussenatt, while Norwegian has Lussinatt. --Lambiam^Talk 21:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• The following comment was made by User:Guillen at the top of the page. It has been moved down in order to keep the flow of the AFD:
  • "Sankta Lusse appears in Google ! you no even know as searches for something in Google,and wants to comment in wikipedia?. Sankta Lusse is right name used by Canadians and Americans in North Carolina and Connecticut from Swedish/Danish Origins. Lussenat is Lusse night,there are no Norwegian name for it. Norwegians celebrates Kris Kringle instead,it see the commenter below no even know the issue discussed here. It is another example from abusive use from wikipedia by catholics,you are angry because an article proves Sicilian Saint Lucy is no same Lusse from Sweden Denmark Christmass. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Guillen (talk • contribs).
    • This is the first time I've ever been accused of being an abusive Catholic. (Hint: I'm Southern Baptist and, more importantly, a born again Christian.) The problem with this article is NOT theology. The problems are threefold: (1) if you go to http://www.google.com and type in "Sankta Lusse", you get nothing whatsoever. (2) There is already an article called St. Lucia Day that discusses the holiday in Sweeden. This topic belongs in that article, not a new article. (3) The article is very difficult to understand. This has nothing to do with Catholic vs Protestant - nothing whatsoever. BigDT 23:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
    • I'm not a Catholic, but I do find the article in question to be completely nonsensical. This is no conspiracy. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 23:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Your threefold problems: Sankta Lusse exists,is no Catholic Saint,and last but no least it appears in Google. 1)Reads again my former letter. And learn to uses google. 2)Saint Lucy Day is a day devoted to a catholic saint. It hadn`t any relatuion to Sankata Lusse. Give me more time to write proofs,sources,it. By the way I works in a corporation,I`m no a lazy teenager writing articles in favor from pornography and catholicism as you. 3)Is very difficult to understand,because it is for inteligent people only?. Give me more time and I writes here enough sources and proofs. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Guillen (talk • contribs).
        • Rather than being insulting, would it be possible for you to link to your google results? When I go here - http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2003-37,GGLD:en&q=%22Sankta+Lusse%22 - I get nothing. Also, please remember the no personal attacks policy. Calling us lazy teenagers, saying your articles are written only for the "inteligent" (sic), and claiming that we are writing articles in favor of pornography are not acceptable behaviors. BigDT 16:23, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
        • What are you talking about? The impetus is on the person adding content to the Wikipedia to prove its verifiability, not the other way around. You've done nothing to prove that it's verifiable, and have done little more than accuse people here of being biased/lazy/pornography-loving Catholics. It's only slightly amusing. And no, Google does not find anything on "Sankta lusse". It does find the two words seperated, but that's fairly useless. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 22:31, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
          • Oh you are lazy teenagers,raised by too much indulgents "parents"-I imagine incest play a big role here-.

The problem here: Wikipedia was created thinking ONLY in mature adult and serious people,no crybabies who think to search in Google is to make a profound research!!!!. I DON`T WANT to discuss with you,on NOTHING. I`m interested only in scholars,academicians,Professors and similar people.

Go to masturbate. And last but no least,you are no any Southern Baptist,you are only a guy without a daywork. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Guillen (talk • contribs).

• Despite all of your blabbering, you've failed to provide a single source, or any form of verifiability for this article. As I said, according to the official policy on verifiability, the editor who is adding information must provide a reputable source, or the contribution can be deleted freely. Your poorly constructed insults have not accomplished that. If you were a scholar, surely you would understand how crucial it is to have reliable information in an encyclopedia such as this? -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 00:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

• I've looked at a sample of the edits of this user. My goodness. He/she leaves behind a trail of wreckage and misery, like a 4-year old on steroids (or worse) who has gotten hold of his father's SUV keys. --Lambiam^Talk 02:42, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, in view of WP:V, and per Lambiam and JIP, on whom I repose (in the archaic sense of the word, and with great confidence) apropos, inter al., of Scandinavian issues. Joe 00:39, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
• Comment by Lambiam is defamtory and must to be deleted.

  You're right, I shouldn't have said that. I apologize to all 4-year olds. --Lambiam^Talk 02:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

• It may have been a bit much, but considering the user's contributions I don't think it is completely unwarranted. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 03:24, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, NOT merge or redirect. Per ... most of the above, really; I couldn't say it better. Colonel Tom 12:28, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 08:46, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jane Everson Hett Campbell

I'm contesting a prod. Article states notability, but is unsourced, I can't find her using google, might be a hoax. No vote Eivind^t@c 03:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - this article [14] says that the first female veternarian was Isabella Bruce Reid. BigDT 03:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• One other Comment - take a look at the contributions for the original author of the article [15] - his/her only other contribution was vandalism BigDT 03:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as non-verifiable and contradicted elsewhere. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 03:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I did a great deal of book research, and was unable to verify any of the claims about Jane Everson Hett Campbell, not even her name. See the talk page. Bejnar 04:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, nn, hoax. --Terence Ong 14:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, definite hoax. Grandmasterka 01:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Unable to verify the truthfulness of this article. Definitely looks like a hoax. — TheKMan^talk 23:43, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was the article to go for deletion, do not merge, do not redirect., . Mailer Diablo 08:48, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] National Day of Slayer

Keep this page. See related AfD. TheProject 03:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Strong delete Most of it is copyvio anyway, although I suppose you could make a case for fair use; cruft in any case Hobbeslover | (talk) (contribs) 03:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete fancruft. Wile E. Heresiarch 04:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete -- fancruft. - Longhair 04:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• In honour of the National Day of Slayer, I vote that we delete an unencyclopedic article. This looks like a prime candidate. Delete. Capitalistroadster 07:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • In that case, I timed this AfD a few days too early... :-) TheProject 07:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge should this just be merged with the slayer article? --Kev62nesl 07:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge with the Slayer article, if this day actually has anything to do with the band. J Milburn 12:09, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, fancruft. --Terence Ong 14:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, no merge or redirect The article is just an advertisement for a web site. The article does not even state that this thing is endorsed by Slayer- or that Slayer has even heard of it. The article is POV nonsense, and it's spam. -- Kicking222 17:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete the day has nothing to do with the band. J Milburn 22:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Strong delete, another article advocating this was quickly deleted above. This one deserves the same fate. Non-notable holiday. Grandmasterka 01:08, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Unencyclopedic fancruft. — TheKMan^talk 06:57, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy delete by Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 04:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC). See below for details

[edit] Ron Sorensen

Article is verbatim copy of marketing cruft for musician on commercial website (which by itself makes it either a vanity article or a copyvio); [16] the artist does not appear on allmusic.com or discogs.com; [17] [18] the article lists a single album with a record label that has precisely one Google hit, to this very Wikipedia article [19] – suggesting a vanity record publication, and not in compliance with Wikipedia:Notability (music) or Wikipedia:Vanity guidelines; entire history of article is from one anon username with no history on any other article, and one IP address with no contributions outside the three days in which the entire history of this article is listed. [20] [21] [22] - Reaverdrop (talk/nl/wp:space) 03:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy delete CSD A8 Hobbeslover | (talk) (contribs) 03:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete seconded. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 03:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Notice: I added a speedy delete tag to the article based on the above votes and review of speedy delete policy. - Reaverdrop (talk/nl/wp:space) 04:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 08:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AWAB

Non notable neologism, no Google hits, no source given. Crystallina 03:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Wikipedia is not a soapbox, place for original research, or blahblahblah. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 03:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above BigDT 03:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:NOT a dictionary and WP:NEO NN neogalism Ydam 08:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per the consumed crustacean. JIP | Talk 09:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Appears to me a non notable neologism. — TheKMan^talk 23:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete NN Eluchil404 21:48, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS -- 9cds^(talk) 23:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joseph D. Campbell

Delete. This person appears non-notable, and claims of being well known are quite unverfiable and unsourced. Despite extensive Googling, the best I can come up on regarding this Joseph Campbell is his own website selling his own autobiography. That website also seems to make him out to be well known, or a "pioneering scientists", but nothing else seems to support it. I might turn my vote around if credible sources are given. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 03:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, will also reconsider if sources are given. Mak (talk) 03:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom, no credible claims of notability -Drdisque 04:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep It is just a stub right now, but there is material available. Give the editors a chance; the article was just posted today. Dr. Campbell's work was mostly before 1980, and unfortunately, material from before 1990 can frequently be unavailable using Google, so this might take some time. Bejnar 04:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Someone probably at least cited him within the internet age or at least knows the name of one of his works. -Drdisque 06:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Question: Are we talking about the man who wrote about mythology and "The Hero With a Thousand Faces?" I heard of him. --Starionwolf 06:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • No, the mythology writer is Joseph Campbell, whose article is not going anywhere. Joseph D. Campbell is the hair tissue mineral analyst. --Metropolitan90 08:09, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep, for now, but this really needs to be sourced. If this guy did all this stuff his webpage says he did, I'd call him notable. If. --UsaSatsui 11:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, let it expand naturally, the sources will come sooner or later. --Terence Ong 14:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment I'm somewhat confused right now. No published works have been cited, nor have any independent internet sites. I've found a total of 4 books by him, but they are at a total of one library worldwide each (the Canadian equivalent of the Library of Congress). What exactly is the claim for notability here? His own home institution doesn't even own his books. We have no particular reason to trust his own personal website. Mak (talk) 17:09, 30 May 2006 (UTC) (p.s. My father's book is in a total of 515 libraries worldwide, and I wouldn't write a Wikipedia article on him). Mak (talk) 17:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment in addition I find no entries for this author in PubMed, which includes important medical journals starting in 1950. Mak (talk) 18:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment I agree there are no articles by him in PubMed which is skewed towards US publications. I am working on verification of Canadian publications. Bejnar 21:50, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

• Comment on Wikipedia Policy. I am quoting the policy on verifiability: -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 17:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Aside from only slight claims of notability, the article is unsourced and unverifiable. If info can't be verified, it can't be on WP, plain and simple. -- Kicking222 17:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Verifiability is not negotiable. Stifle (talk) 12:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
  • verification I have verified his Nov. 2001 publication "Lifestyle, Minerals and Health" in Medical Hypotheses an Elsevier science publication. I have also verified a publication by his successor Dr. Lemke, listed under References. Bejnar 01:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
    • More discussion needed?. This might require more talk. However, the first reference does not sound like a peer-reviewed publication, since it's labelled as "letter to the editor". That limits its scientific merit and its merit towards notability. The second reference is also not peer reviewed or independently confirmed, as their website says

The journal therefore constitutes a bridge between cutting-edge theory and the mainstream of medical and scientific communication, which ideas must eventually enter if they are to be critiqued and tested against observations.

So, neither of these sources can be taken too seriously. They may provide some verifiability (as in, proving that he has tried to get this ideas out there), but they don't make him notable. More input is needed from others though, my argument may be somehow flawed. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 03:49, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 08:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Annie Brighton Thornley

NN, unverifiable. Ezeu 03:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete A Google search indicates one non-Wikipedia entry and one Wikipedia article that has been, apparently, deleted. joturner 03:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• keep Verificable, after all. The library catalog at http://www.familysearch.org/ confirms the title given as a reference.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/titledetailsframe.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=557766&disp=Brighton%2C+Thornley%2C+Timmins%2C+famil&first=undefined&last=undefined TruthbringerToronto 04:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, but what is she notable for? For being one of a few hundred people who first settled a village?. --Ezeu 06:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, existing doesn't make one notable.--Peta 07:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, nn-bio, unverifiable. --Terence Ong 14:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above. -- Kicking222 17:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete nn. Tychocat 02:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was merge/redirect to Manifesto (album). --Ezeu 01:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Still Falls the Rain

Individual song does not seem notable. I'd argue that Edith Sitwell's poem should have an article at this space. —Wrathchild ^(talk) 19:49, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - this article is mostly speculation and does not contain much actual content. Perhaps it would be better served in a music magazine. Páll ^{(Die pienk olifant)} 20:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Páll. Master of Puppets ^{That's hot.} 20:19, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. RM was one of the seminal bands of the 70s. The article is too good to delete. As for the nom's suggestion, I can't see why there would be any objection if he wants to do an article on the poem. That's why we have disambig pages. -- JJay 23:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. I am not suggesting the the band nor the album on which the song appears is not notable, it just doesn't appear to me that this song in particular is that notable. —Wrathchild ^(talk) 02:40, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge with Manifesto (album). It makes some worthwhile observations. Tyrenius 04:40, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.--Ezeu 03:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Merge with Manifesto While it is a good article, it doesn't seem that this was a single or was otherwise notable as a track. Capitalistroadster 07:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge with Manifesto (album), some mention is better than nothing. --Terence Ong 15:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy deleted by Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 04:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC) on the grounds of nonsense and as a hoax-attack page

[edit] Anti-Collegeboard League

This one speaks for itself, I think. Crystallina 04:09, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy I tagged and bagged this under CSDs A6 and A7 Hobbeslover | (talk) (contribs) 04:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • It's been speedied already. Suggest we close this one up Hobbeslover | (talk) (contribs) 04:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy delete by Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 04:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC), due to lack of coherent assertion of notability, regardless of the truthfulness of the article.

[edit] Lorraine Cormican

Google search (standard disclaimer applies) yields 12 hits, none of which substantiate the notion that Lorraine Cormican is a comedian, much less a notable comedian. Sole author User:JFKLBJRMN has not contributed to any other article. Smells like a fabrication. Delete. Wile E. Heresiarch 04:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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By consensus at DRV, this result is now a No Consensus/default keep. Xoloz 16:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

The result of the debate was delete. --Ezeu 01:55, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heinen's

A non-notable supermarket. Fails WP:CORP. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 04:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The Heinen's stub is not intended to advertise the store whatsoever. It is merely providing information on a local community-based grocery store. Perhaps it could be placed within a larger group of articles that discusses community-based grocery stores and their importance in modern suburban areas. Notability need not be a concept of national concern. Grocery stores small and large contribute to the growth of cities alike. They equally bring about the ideas of economy, consumerism, and small business.

Heinen's is comparable to many other grocery stores such as Giant Eagle, and it can furthermore be identified as a competing force against these stores. It should not be considered non-notable simply because it is a local chain in its infancy.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heinen%27s"

I plan on and intend to add additional information that will help make the subject matter more applicable and more notable to the general public. Bluebul1989 04:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989

• Comment Please review the criteria at WP:CORP. Can you offer substantiation of notability under those guidelines? Fan1967 05:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete an unremarkable neighborhood grocery store clearly fails WP:CORP -Drdisque 06:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, non-notable supermarket, article reads like advertising. JIP | Talk 09:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Sorry, WP:CORP is a harsh mistress. --UsaSatsui 11:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as per nom. Amalas =^_^= 20:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete unverified, probably unverifiable, non-notable, fails WP:CORP, and in addition, note this edit added by an anon. minutes after creation [23]. Mak (talk) 20:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - is this really any less notable than many of the links on Supermarkets in the United_States? --Rehcsif 21:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep This article clearly passes WP:CORP in that it is ranked in the top 100 Ohio private buisnesses. Also, as previously noted, this page is more supstantial than some of the others on Supermarkets in the United_States. Thus, there is no reason for this article to be deleted. --Laximus

I don't understand why WP:CORP must be the basis for acceptance. Small and growing businesses have little or no chance against it and should be judged using other criteria. Heinen's is a well-known grocery competitor in Ohio and the greater Cleveland area. For information about Heinen's, view [24]. Additionally, Heinen's is a grocer partner of Continental Airlines. [25]. Bluebul1989 01:53, 31 May 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989

Here is a site listing financial information and rankings of top Ohio businesses between 2003 and 2004. Heinen's is ranked within the top 100 on this list. Its sales volume was calculated to be between 100 and 499 million dollars. Heinen's had 2,200 employees at this time and its ranking had increased 42.7% in a one year period. [26]. Bluebul1989 02:20, 31 May 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989

• Comment Companies like this are precisely why WP:CORP is in place. Wikipedia is not the Yellow Pages. The intent is to only document companies that are newsworthy and notable. A small local grocery chain with 2,200 employees is neither. Fan1967 03:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Though the chain is small, upon further research I have discovered that it passes 2 out of 3 of the criteria required to be considered notable listed in WP:CORP. A company known as Wyse Advertising has decided to work for Heinen's and to conduct research for the business. Wyse Advertising. Moreover, as I stated before, Heinen's is listed as a top 100 private Ohio business (it was ranked 51 in 2004) and continues to grow in size and volume. Please consider that Heinen's, although not newsworthy, is indeed notable and competes with many large businesses within its operating area, including Giant Eagle and Tops to name a few. Bluebul1989 03:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989

• You know, I think the standards laid out in WP:CORP are too high (that doesn't change my vote), but I'm wondering something. Why, exactly, are you so intent upon getting this store an article? Do you work for them? Are you an owner? Friends of yours? If you really think that people are interested in learning about this small chain because it's interesting or notable, then fine, but it doesn't seem to me you're very objective here (WP:VAIN). I'm sure it plays a huge role in your local community, much like any grocery store does. I'll bet it's a wonderful store, and may very well be notable someday. Right now, though, it simply doesn't meet the standards for an article. --UsaSatsui 07:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Or does s/he work for Wyse Advertising? Wouldn't be the first time a PR firm tried to use WP to show a quick hit accomplishment to the client. Fan1967 14:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

No need to assume bad faith... ---J.S (t|c) 22:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

"An article should not be dismissed as "vanity" simply because the subject is not famous. There is currently no consensus about what degree of recognition is required to justify a unique article being created in Wikipedia... Lack of fame is not the same as vanity." (WP:VAIN) Bluebul1989 20:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989

As I said before, I am not trying to advertise the store. Yes, I am from Ohio and I in fact live near a Heinen's. Yet I have no bias towards Heinen's and consider it as one of many grocery stores in the Ohio region (these other businesses being recognized in Wikipedia). I feel the chain is an important and influential business in Ohio, and should additionally be recognized as a business competitor. I do not work for Wyse Advertising as I am a 16-year-old junior in highschool. Please consider everything that I have discussed in my posts above. If you still do not believe that Heinen's should be submitted as an entry in Wikipedia, at the very least perhaps it could be grouped with other small, less nationally known businesses (or regional businesses), in a "small and notable businesses" article. This would give an opportunity to many smaller businesses that are important but are left in the dust only because they are not nationally recognized. It would also expand Wikipedia without giving too much attention to each individual business. I know that Wikipedia is not the Yellow Pages and I agree that not any ordinary or local business deserves a place in an enyclopedia. My only intent is to enter Heinen's as a rather notable and competitive supermarket chain in Ohio, and to eventually bring light to other small and growing businesses in the United States that deserve to be known and recognized as important parts of the economy. -Author of Heinen's Article Bluebul1989 20:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989

• Keep - I think if a business has 2200 employees and is a chain it should be kept. I Think the idea behind WP:CORP is to keep the random hot-dog stands off of WP... not the company who owns 400. Seems to pass WP:CORP in any case. No need to automatically assume bad faith... this is the author of the article. I'd fight for an article I created just as much. ---J.S (t|c) 22:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• I'm not the author, par-say... just saying the author would fight for his creation, right? ---J.S (t|c) 22:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

IMPORTANT Heinen's is located on the Supermarkets in the United States page under the "Smaller Chains" section. It was already on this page before I even created the Heinen's article, signifying that the creator intended to eventually link this to a Wikipedia article specifically about Heinen's. Having a spot on this page, it is obviously a notable small business, and the Heinen's stub should therefore be permitted. View the page here: [27]. I would also like to note the permittance of other smaller, regional chains in this section that are comparable to Heinen's. Many of these chains are as small as Heinen's. Here are some examples: Woodman's Food Market, Westborn Market, Ukrop's Super Market. There are many chains that are smaller and have a lower sales volume than Heinen's that are located on the Supermarkets in the United States page and that have been granted Wikipedia pages. I find it absolutely ridiculous that there is an obvious inconsistency and discrepancy in Wikipedia policy and ruling that I got trapped in the middle of. My article was not judged in the same manner that these other articles were and was immediately proposed for deletion without any consideration. The fact that I had to fight so hard to support something that should not have been debated in the first place is even more upsetting. I urge that this issue be settled immediately and that all "smaller chains" located in the Supermarkets in the United States article be granted a Wikipedia page, as they are certainly important grocery chains. I hope that all future additions of smaller, notable businesses are overlooked with a fairness and consistency that is expected from Wikipedia. A business does not have to be a large, nationally recognized chain, to be considered notable. -Author of Heinen's stub Bluebul1989 03:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989

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The result of the debate was delete. --Ezeu 02:01, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ZeroLogic

Non-notable "e-sports team" (clan). -- Longhair 05:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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• Delete -- Longhair 05:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The team is a pillar of the American Call of Duty competetive scene, which is 2nd only to Counter Strike in size. Also, when it's a publicly run resource, what is the limit to information? None.

• Leave -- Danyak501 12:24, 30 May 2006

• Delete Classic example of teenage gamers thinking they're far more notable than they are. Would be different if they were significantly recognised and famous professionals (there's a justifiable place on WP for people like Thresh, say), but they describe themselves as "professional" despite playing in an amateur league. Seems therefore to completely fail notability guidelines. Seb Patrick 08:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete burninate this crap. Danny Lilithborne 10:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. So, that's what those vanity pages look like... --UsaSatsui 11:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Loath as I am to spoil young persons' fun, this is a clear delete. Vizjim 11:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Leave I think with the amount of work that has gone to this, the article should be left. There are other pages like this from other "clans" from this same CAL league the article describes. I don't see why an inter-connected network of relevant material should be shunned. textymann 10:59, 30 May 2006

• Note First and only edit from new user. Fan1967 14:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Gaming clan = not notable. Take it to myspace. Fan1967 14:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• DELETE ALL CLANS! -- Kicking222 17:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Leave -- The team is a very noted group of individuals from a community that has thousands of members. The team currently competes for cash prizes making them by definition a professional team. Kaybee55 30 May 2006

• Note First and only edit from new user. Zzzzz 21:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete doesnt meet notability requriement for electronic sports team i.e. hasnt won any major tournament. Zzzzz 21:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Leave Is there like a max space for wikipedia articles or something?? Why do you people really care so much? How is it affecting you in any sort of negative way besides perhaps being a little on the irelevant side to YOUR life. It's about building a massive network of information that people may at some point want to access. If it helps 1 or 2 people then hasn't it done its job??? CHILL PILL sambramann 05:10, 30 May 2006

• Note Yet another first and only edit from new user. Fan1967 00:41, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• • Not quite...WP:NOT makes for some good reading. WP:VAIN and WP:WEB also apply here too. "How is it affecting anyone?" isn't really a relevant argument. Wikipedia is a specific project with specific goals, and this page does not fit within the criteria. --UsaSatsui 22:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Another clan was undeleted today, but apparently they were among the best ever in their field (as evidenced by a ton of international awards they'd won that were listed.) I see no such assertion here. If someone wants this info, we can userfy it. Grandmasterka 01:12, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no consensus. Mailer Diablo 13:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Funnel Cloud (album)

Future album with no set release date, and minimal information provided. fuzzy510 05:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. JIP | Talk 09:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, album is on the docket, verified, the whole 9 yards. [28] Crystal ballism is for future information that cannot be verified, not for things like this. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 10:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep as there is information on the page that is verifiable, and there will soon be more information. The album is notable. It is not predicting anything, and that is the reason it is so short, yet it will no doubt be updated when anything is confirmed. J Milburn 12:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep but was it really necessary to create an article when this little is known about it? Should have just put a note on the band's article. Aguerriero (talk) 18:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Maybe I was a tad hasty, but I'm also responsible for the band's other albums, so I've just kind of taken it on myself to do the new ones as they come along. Regardless, a note in the article would just get moved here anyway eventually, so may as well save a step was the logic. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 18:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Redirect to Hem for now; recreate once definite release date is established. B.Wind 02:46, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Seems like the release date is 5 September. [29] --badlydrawnjeff talk 12:53, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Redirecting to the band is fine too. Stifle (talk) 12:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was transwili to wikibooks and delete . --Ezeu 02:10, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Website development

Transwiki and delete — No encyclopaedic content, all belongs on Wikibooks. (Suggest moving the interwiki links to Website.) ~ Booya ^Bazooka 05:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Transwiki and delete Per above. Looks like there's already enough of it on wikibooks though so maybe there's not enough new content to transwiki Ydam 08:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Transwiki and delete as above. It's an instruction guide on how to do it yourself, not a cited article about what web development is. Stephen B Streater 09:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Transwiki and delete, unencyclopedic. --Terence Ong 15:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• T&D per all - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 01:46, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, and transwiki if it's thought that wikibooks needs this - not relevant for wikipedia. Colonel Tom 12:34, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no consensus. --Ezeu 02:29, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zeta Phi

Chapter of a fraternity which makes no verifiable claim to notability. Further, the cited primary source is Self-published by the subject and, accordingly, borders on vanity. —C.Fred (talk) 23:59, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete I was the orginal prodder on this and think it does little to nothing to assert any notability. Individual chapters of fraternities don't get covered unless they're notable. Things like alumni gets mentioned in the national organization's article if one exists. Metros232 00:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

• keep Do not delete. The chapter has figured into the lives of several significant individuals, not the least of which are Sam Walton, Edgar Snow, and Kenneth Lay. To cultivate an understanding about these figures I think their college experience is worth noting. I must concede the article is at points vain, but it shall be edited to meet wikipedia standards. This particular chapter started out as a literary society and became affiliated with a fraternity years after its inception. I must respectfully challenge the idea that a fraternity's alumni do not lend notability. There are entries on prep schools in wikipedia that have far less significance. Perhaps the entry falls short in conveying how unique the chapter is. If so, it's worth mentioning the million dollar study facilities in-house and the chapter's four Rhode Scholars. Have you run across fraternities that can make similar boasts? This is no animal house. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.143.204.40 (talk • contribs).
  • Please reference my comments on the talk page for the article. I gave a specific instance where I think the notability of the chapter could be asserted, if it is backed up with an independent source to corroborate it. —C.Fred (talk) 03:58, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
• Either keep, delete as copyvio or userfy to wait for author to work on it. (Yeah, I can say that, this is not a vote...) The important thing is that I think this does assert notability. Having been around for 135 years is pretty good for a student society in Missouri, I think. It would be a respectable age even in Europe. I hope the author can work on improving the tone of this and adding some better references than that website from which the text was taken. I am assuming there is a permission to use that text here. If not, this has to go to WP:CP. Tupsharru 21:48, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
  • That's part of the sticky wicket with this article. The original editor claims that it is not copyright violation since he is a member of the fraternity and on behalf of the chapter controls the original text and licenses it GFDL by placing it here. However, that makes it a vanity article—or at best original research—since the original editor merely repeated comments made at their university web page. Hence, even if we clear the notability hurdle, we still have verifiability to deal with. —C.Fred (talk) 22:03, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
• delete as vanity. Roodog2k 21:17, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

keep Why not leave the article? Almost every article about a person on wikipedia is a "vanity" article. Most are positive anyway. It is still interesting and I ended up reading it after reading that Ken Lay was a Beta at Missouri from a bio I read on the web. I think it is amazing that the Betas at Mizzou have had men like Sam Walton and Ken Lay (even though he was convicted and that takes the luster away from the association) as members. Shoot, most articles about cities, colleges, etc are postive and sya good things about the places. What else are they going to say? "Smith, Montana...the crappiest little town in the world where all the women are ugly and all the children are stupid." No, they are going to be positive. Big deal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.104.148.171 (talk • contribs) 06:22, 26 May 2006 (UTC).

• delete vanity-Reid A. 18:55, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
• Weak keep with 40,000 GHits or so M1ss1ontomars2k4 ^{(T | C | @)} 23:56, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. Google hits are not relevant and are hard to measure for this context. Although, surprisingly, the chapter's web site was in the Top 10 hits. It was the only relevant hit in the first 30, though. —C.Fred (talk) 04:44, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
• merge, I think that parts of this article could be merged into the main article, for example the "Notable members" section, although some names are already on the list in the main Zeta Phi article. --TommyBoy 16:07, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Do you mean the main Beta Theta Pi article? That's where the merge would go. —C.Fred (talk) 16:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
• My mistake, you are correct. --TommyBoy 16:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.--Ezeu 05:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Student organizations that exist at only a single school are generally non-notable. --Metropolitan90 08:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Why should every single "chapter" of every single "fraternity" or "sorority" deserve an article? This article even reads more like a magazine article than an encyclopedia article. It is probably only vanity. JIP | Talk 09:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. Agreed. Chatper articles are starting to show up for various Beta chapters; based on the results of this, I will Prod or AfD them as well. —C.Fred (talk) 17:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Beta Theta Pi article. Vizjim 11:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep, and do not merge. Agree that its not worth having an entry for every fraternity chapter, however, judging by the alumni and (relatively) long history this association appears to be anything but pedestrian. To merge this chapter into the main Beta Theta Pi article would wash away the significance of the local history, which appears to be considerable. Would you merge the Yankees into an article on major league baseball if there was something interesting to tell about the franchise? Of course not. So it is with this chapter. I'm guessing it was the prominence of the Zeta Phi chapter that drew those individuals to become members, not the main fraternity of Beta Theta Pi. Seems like the standard for notability has been met. Keep the article if it will be further cleaned up to meet wikipedia standards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.143.64.241 (talk • contribs). User's two contributions are on this discussion.
• Delete as a local chapter of a fraternity...or merge to Beta Theta Pi if the originator(s) desire.--Isotope23 18:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Needs a cleanup, but it's salvagable, and notable enough. Dylan 22:08, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Strong delete as fratcruft. I believe that no fraternity deserves any encyclopedia article unless it's nationally notable and important for major activities. A chapter of such a fraternity certainly doesn't. Stifle (talk) 12:04, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep Hard to see why there is still debate about notabilty. If there is concern that other fraternity chapters will want their own wikipedia pages, make them meet this high standard. If they have a 135 year history and alumni on the level of Sam Walton and Ken Lay, let their pages stay too. There seems to be some bizarre agenda against fraternities in some if these evaluations. What's the big deal? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.30.179.83 (talk • contribs). User's first edit.

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The result of the debate was delete both articles. Mailer Diablo 22:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tim Morton and Away(A)wake

A non-notable director and one of his movies. A future project of his, Lounge Ghost, is already up for deletion; a user there suggested that these two also be nominated, as "Away(A)wake" gets 45 ghits, and the DVD has an Amazon sales ranking of above 54,000. None of the actors or other people involved appear notable either. Zetawoof^(ζ) 06:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete I originally suggested these pages should be deleted, and I stand by that. The director's only claims of notability come from these two movies which are up for AfD, and these movies [Away(A)wake and Lounge Ghost] have no notable actors or other personnel and no distribution deals. They're two of a million indie films by one of a million indie directors. -- Kicking222 17:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Per nom. ILovePlankton ^{( L)} 00:32, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete both per nom. Stifle (talk) 12:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy delete. - Longhair 21:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red Love

Non-notable album. Album name with artist's name registers 7 Ghits. fuzzy510 06:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy per nom Rklawton 06:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy per above. -- Shizane ^talk_contribs 07:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was KEEP - time to get working on the cleanup, guys! -- 9cds^(talk) 01:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chilean_Spanish

Inaccurate/false content, consensus in discussion page

• Delete per nom --Guinnog 12:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC) Changed to weak keep and improve after reading arguments below. --Guinnog 15:45, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose deletion. Certainly seems like a valid topic. Accuracy disputes are not normally grounds for deletion, which would render the article's extensive edit history invisible. The talk page editors need to be bolder in editing out inaccuracies and substituting more valid content. I have no grounds to pass judgment on the accuracy of what's there now. Smerdis of Tlön 15:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Salvageable, but massive editing required -- This article has some useful information and much information that is patently incorrect. Chilean Spanish is not so different as the article contends. What the author calls Chilean Spanish should instead be called Chilean colloquialisms, or "modismos" in Spanish. I've spent considerable time in central and southern Chile (though not northern), and my wife is Chilean. I have not encountered the second-person plural in Chile, except in the case of "Como estás?" In southern Chile, you will sometimes hear "Como estai?" (notice no 's'). The vocabulary section could be retained, and the page could be renamed Chilean Idioms or something similar. Glenn R. Harshman 18:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Per nom. ILovePlankton ^{( L)} 00:32, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep If the article is wrong, don't delete it, fix it. Spacepotato 08:02, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Spacepotato. --Alsayid 13:40, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Spacepotato. Carlossuarez46 17:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep the form "vo" is used throughout Chile (informally), not just in the South. In "symmetric" conversations between people of all ages, but especially youth, this form is used, most of all the phrase "Como estai?" Though this difference is not literary (as is the Argentine "vos" form, see Rayuela by Cortazar for one example) it is nonetheless real and should definitely be noted. I have lived in Chile for nearly a year and traveled to north, central, south. (Sean 18:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC))
• Delete - The current article is not very encyclopedic. This topic is important and interesting, but it deserves a better article. (from the scratch better). baloo_rch 15:35, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and Cleanup - The article is very messy and unencyclopaedic but those are not valid reasons to delete. Chilean Spanish does differ from forms of Spanish spoken in other countries so this is a legitimate article (just wrong on many points). Needs major overhaul, not deletion.--WilliamThweatt 15:57, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
• Start from Scratch - Starting from scratch won't be so hard. People from chile use this kind of speak in their everyday lives, so they don't need to research too extensively. Explanations for the origins of MANY chilean terms can be found (probably part-hidden) in the webpage of the chilean newspaper La Cuarta http://www.lacuarta.cl, because it has a section about chilean speak ("la ficha pop") and is published daily since years ago. I'm sorry I don't have time or motivation to do it myself. My opinion is that it's just a moderately distorted spanish with many colloquialisms. -- ANONYMOUS CHILEAN
• Keep. Seems to be an informative article. I don't see any reason why this subject shouldn't be covered by WP. --Document 23:00, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Madonna Re-Imagined 2005

Non-notable album. Total of 50 Ghits, and I can't seem to find anything anywhere outside of Wikipedia that indicates that this album actually exists. fuzzy510 07:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Presumably unofficial remix album by a redlink artist. It's inconceivable that an official Madonna album would have only 50 Google hits. kingboyk 07:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as per nom --Guinnog 12:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Per nom. ILovePlankton ^{( L)} 00:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per kingboyk. — TheKMan^talk 23:37, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ak-Afro-Acid-Rap

No offense to the creator of this article, but this is a very non-notable neologism made up by someone. Wikipedia is not a dictionary, or a place to post one's own made-up words. Prod removed. Delete. Grandmasterka 07:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Made up by and used by one person or group of non-notable origin. Ben W Bell talk 07:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, made up at school one day. JIP | Talk 09:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, non-notable, neologism. -- Docether 14:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, neologism. --Terence Ong 15:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete due to being a non-notable neologism. Yamaguchi先生 23:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Per everyone. ILovePlankton ^{( L)} 00:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] John Sahag

Tagged with importance. Has been tagged with CSD but declined. Janitorial nomination. kingboyk 07:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy Delete A7 - not at all notable - Peripitus 12:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy a nobody --DV8 2XL
• Speedy Delete Per A7 and nom. ILovePlankton ^{( L)} 00:34, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. It wasn't me that removed the speedy delete notice and declined to delete it, although I think I will decline. "Hairdresser to the stars" and has his name on a range of products is enough of an assertion of notability for me. His name comes up on Google too, and I've heard of him off wiki I'm sure. I'm not taking a stance either way on this right now (which is why I nom'd for AFD rather than speedying it myself). --kingboyk 11:22, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was: Speedy deleted by MONGO. — TheKMan^talk 04:36, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nakhlah

I'm sad about nominating any geographical article for afd but in this case this is probably speediable. I can find no evidence of anywhere called "Nakhlah", and the article gives no information at all as to where it is. There are some 30,000 ghits for Nakhlah, because it's commonly used as part of place names, such as `Izbat Hanna Nakhlah, `Uwaynat Umm an Nakhlah, and Kafr Nakhlah. Nothing that seems to tie in with this stub, though. Grutness...wha? 07:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. No info here at all. --UsaSatsui 11:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Nothing on the web that definately matches the subject - Peripitus 12:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment Nakhlah is mentioned as the location of a shrine used by the banat Allah in the article on Uzza. Seems to have no other claim to fame.
• Delete Per nom. ILovePlankton ^{( L)} 00:35, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete. If there's no context, and no-one can find any, {{nocontext}} would be fine, I think. Grandmasterka 01:22, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Mailer Diablo 22:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Analog sound vs. digital sound

Unencyclopedic content and writing, delete--Peta 07:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep but rename to Comparison of analog and digital sound and rewrite to be more encyclopedic Ydam 08:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose deletion; undecided on other possible changes. Atlant 12:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and rename per Ydam. Needs work to cite sources, but the analog vs. digital debate is very significant and should be covered. Aguerriero (talk) 18:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep as with Ydam and Aguirriero. Professional sources (notably JAES) have discussed this at great length. Trade magazines (notably Stereophile, and possibly The Audio Critic) have discussed this at great length. Both are usable as sources and not exceptionally hard to get a hold of. --Rtollert 18:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Per nom. ILovePlankton ^{( L)} 00:35, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. It's not too well written, but it's definitely salvageable and a noteworthy topic. Also, move per Ydam. Grandmasterka 01:25, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and rename as per other comments. --Angelstorm 01:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep legitimate topic but delete most of the current content as unsourced. Some of it is silly and just plain wrong: "Was it ever entirely analog or digital?" Yes, of course. Pulse-code modulation, the earliest form of digital sound encoding, did not exist before 1937 so all recordings made before 1937 are "entirely" analog. More to the point, no digital technology was used in ordinary commercial recordings (stereo LPs), before the introduction of Soundstream's digital tape recorder, circa 1975. Your ordinary Beatles LP was "entirely analog." Dpbsmith (talk) 00:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

• Keep, although it requires some major cleanup, more scientific/sourcable facts and a clearer definition of what is compared to what. The sound you hear is entirely analog of course, the medium and reproduction methods may be analog or digital, and the article should focus mainly on whether one is really better than the other at conveying information, or , in this case, sound, and mention all traceable/objective pros and cons of each medium e.g. most analog media tend to be subject to playback wear, while most digital ones do not. EpiVictor 23:45, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep MSTCrow 19:13, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BRAG

Small community group with no notability demonstrated, delete--Peta 08:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per NN Ydam 08:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Almost a {{db-club}} candidate, but there are claims to notability- just not enough. -- Kicking222 17:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom - this is hardly something as well-known in Melbourne as the Public Transport Users Association. SM247 20:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete Per nom. ILovePlankton ^{( L)} 00:36, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Not quite A7, but non notable nevertheless. — TheKMan^talk 23:36, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Kicking222 --Zoz (t) 20:42, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS to delete. -- 9cds^(talk) 23:19, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Angels (album)

The article itself asserts why it should be deleted - recently-announced album for which nothing is known, including a release date. fuzzy510 08:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Delete although there will no doubt soon be enough information to warrant an article. J Milburn 12:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - this is an officially announced, externally verifiable forthcoming release and therefore not a crystal ball article. No point deleting it now just to recreate it when they announce more information. Ac@osr 16:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Keep Per Ac@osr. ILovePlankton ^{( L)} 00:37, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] John N. Montgomery

President of redlink companies. Doesn't appear to be notable. Janitorial nomination. kingboyk 08:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, vanity article, advertising his company. JIP | Talk 09:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above. -- Docether 14:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, advert. Stifle (talk) 12:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Review: Ruth The Biblical Ghana

Review of a non notable POV essay Nuttah68 08:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete OR, nn. All I can really say about this article is... what? -- Kicking222 17:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - I would suggest merging into History of Ghana if anything was salvagable, but the author couldn't even spell Kwame Nkrumah's name right. The Disco King 18:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom Barneyboo (Talk) 18:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• WOW that's horrible!! I feel like BJAODNing it, but people would get offended... This is close to patent nonsense, beginning in the first paragraph where Ghana "migrated to its present location in west africa in search of an oasis." In any case, delete. Grandmasterka 01:30, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Well it is about the psychic evaluation on Ghana as of now and then off in past and the future, slip of fingers the keyboard is slippery, auther. It is not my tongue. Don't delete

per nom. --TorriTorri 02:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - For the above reasons. Picaroon9288 00:04, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Ezeu 02:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anxiety (album)

Album was never released, and apparently there are no plans to ever do so. All information in the article is in Smile Empty Soul's article already, making a merge unnecessary. fuzzy510 08:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete I fail to see how an unrealeased album can claim notability except in exceptional circumstances Ydam 08:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and expand. Problems with the record label is usually something that can be sourced and expanded upon further. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 11:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete since this duplicates information already in band page. Merge any non-duplicate info. Otherwise, sets a bad precedent re. the notability of unreleased albums. -- Docether 14:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. For now I believe that the article should be deleted because of the fact that it IS a duplication of the information already in the band page. BUT I do also believe that for the same reason that Ydam said "except in exceptional circumstances" that the article should be kept, because this is an exceptional circumstance. MBob 01:20, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
  • How is this an exceptional circumstance? Albums are made but never see the light of day on many occasions. --fuzzy510 05:36, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Unreleased albums only become notable in retrospect, e.g., Bob Dylans The Basement Tapes or the Beach Boys' Smile. For now, the information that's already in the band article should suffice. GentlemanGhost 07:38, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Smile Empty Soul. -- Koffieyahoo 02:33, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was MERGE with Martin Luther. -- 9cds^(talk) 23:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] John Ernest Luther

Martin Luther = the essence of notability. His last descendant? Seems nn to me. Delete. kingboyk 08:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Merge with the Martin Luther article, perhaps in a 'Family' section? There is nothing to say about John Ernest Luther that could not be fairly put in the Martin Luther article. J Milburn 12:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge and let contributors to Martin Luther hash out whether or not the information is suitable as part of that article. Best, Docether 14:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge/Redirect to Martin Luther. Clearly established consensus is that non-notable relatives of notable people are mentioned in the notable person's article. Stifle (talk) 12:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no consensus. Mailer Diablo 13:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cruel Melody

Article about a future album which has no set release date at this time. fuzzy510 08:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep major label albums from bands with highly notable members. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 11:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. A major-label album from a band with highly notable members? Yes. A NON-EXISTENT major-label album from a band with somewhat notable members? Not so much. --Calton | Talk 11:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • You seem to misunderstand. Wes Borland is the highly notable former guitarist of unfortunate rap-rock band Limp Bizkit. Danny Lohner is a highly notable member of Nine Inch Nails. Josh Freese of the highly notable A Perfect Circle is involved, too. This is the closest you're likely to get to an alternative rock supergroup. "Not out yet" doesn't mean nonexistent, or you may as well go after Chinese Democracy next. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 17:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
    • "Not out yet" doesn't mean nonexistent If you sincerely believe this, it's proof you are in dire need of a basic dictionary. And the less said about your bizarre analogy, the better, though. --Calton | Talk 02:12, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
      • "Nonexistent" =! "not commerically available," your continued incivility aside. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 02:19, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
    • As far as the closest to an alternative rock supergroup is concerned, I believe Audioslave fits that bill fairly well. In any case, Chinese Democracy and this album are completely different animals. The former has tons of information available about it, so much so that it's justifiable to give it its own article. That's not the case with this one. Once it does, then it can get moved out. --fuzzy510 19:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Well, true on Audioslave at least, but the logic behind your deletion rationale can be put the same way. I'd disagree with deleting Chinese Democracy, too. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 22:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
        • As would I. Hmmm, maybe we don't disagree nearly as much as it may seem...... --fuzzy510 04:02, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep This article isn't speculation about a future album. There are external sources reporting on the album's impending release. Of course, it would be nice if the article cited one of these sources until the album was actually released. ScottW 23:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Ok, I've cited a source for the track listing. ScottW 23:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Redirect to Black Light Burns until a definite release date is announced, then recreate. B.Wind 02:52, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep There is a good bit of info on it, and the band itself has been formed of notable members. There is information that is varifiable, and it is notable, does it really matter if there is no set release date? J Milburn 09:22, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
  • It does matter, for Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. If a release is imminent, the label usually fixes the date months in advance. No release date means that it's speculation at best. B.Wind 06:00, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
    • On the Black Light Burns blog on MySpace, Borland has said the album is definitely coming out, but due to corporate restructure at Geffen no date has been announced. Also, Keep. - Nova Prime 08:27, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
      • That wouldn't be the first time that an album has been said to be "definitely coming out". Ask Guns 'N' Roses about that one. --fuzzy510 23:21, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
        • Ha. FWIW, tracking is complete and it's been mixed by Tom Lord-Alge. It is coming out. - Nova Prime 11:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Stifle (talk) 12:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, Just because you can not buy it, does not mean people dont want to know about it.. Tapeworm (band) anyone??? Penner 23:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy Delete. kingboyk 09:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maddy Simmer

Claimed notability as a model but I am unable to find any evidence that she even exists. I think that is she had "appeared on such magazines as playboy and Ralph, and also modelled for such brands as ralph lauren" there would be some note of her somewhere. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 08:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete By my count, being born in August 1989 would make her 16, so the Playboy comment is a little weird. Seems like a complete vanity article for a NN person, if it's even true, which I doubt. Not a single hit on Google. Seb Patrick 09:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Keep who cares if your want your name on her let it be i mean if it was really important it would be knowen but i mean who cheaks on on this stuff anyway it doesn't matter —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Akalindsay (talk • contribs).

• Note above comment was made by the article's creator. Seb Patrick 09:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

"if it was really important it would be known", OK, which it isn't. "who cheaks on on this stuff anyway". I do. --kingboyk 09:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sharp Voices Still Lives - Birmingham Photography in the 1980's

Exhibition by mostly redlink artists. 2nd nom, janitorial action. kingboyk 08:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - nn exhibition - only a single artist linked from the page actual has an article about them - and he appears to be barely notable. It should be noted that this survived an AfD/VfD before http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Sharp_Voices_Still_Lives_-_Birmingham_Photography_in_the_1980%27s Megapixie 08:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom --Guinnog 12:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above, mostly redlinks in the exhibitors suggests poor if any notability. Stifle (talk) 12:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no consensus. Disregarding from comments such as "how is being a professional wrestler notable" and the like.--Ezeu 02:54, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jeff Gaylord

Person does not meet notability requirements
↪Lakes (Talk) 08:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom.--Jusjih 16:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and expand - wrestled in now-defunct USWA, once a "major" pro wrestling promotion. B.Wind 02:55, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment USWA is notable, but not every person that worked for that company is. ↪Lakes (Talk) 10:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep I don't know much about wrestling, but the fact that all the others mentioned are blue links is a good sign. Seems to be reasonably notable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by J Milburn (talk • contribs) .
• Delete - how is being a professional wrestler notable? Sandstein 18:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Sandstein. Stifle (talk) 12:05, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and expand. How is being someone with a two bit opinion on Wikipedia notable? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.131.77.80 (talk • contribs) .
• Delete. Fails WP:BIO. I'd like to add that the above unsigned comment really won't assist in the retention of this article, as it's the only edit from the anonymous IP. If you want to contribute to wikipedia, 4.131.77.80, a good way to do so is to create an account, make contributions and then establish a track record as an editor. I'm assuming you're not an established editor who forgot to log in, as you also forgot to sign with ~~~~. Further to that ... umm ... don't be rude. Colonel Tom 13:03, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete since his most major claim to fame, being the Black Knight, doesn't seem to be verifiable. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 15:48, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Visions (atreyu album)

Duplicate of Visions (album), which is the more complete of the two articles. fuzzy510 09:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Delete the article already exists, the title is poor, and it is not that good anyway. Not even worth a redirect. J Milburn 12:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above. -- Docether 14:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Duplicate, nothing to merge, and just an unlikely spelling so no need for a redirect. — TheKMan^talk 23:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was: Speedy deleted by RasputinAXP. — TheKMan^talk 23:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dead Froggy

Was tagged for speedy with the reason vanity and not notable. No hits on Google. Conscious 09:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Merge to The Crashing Sisters. Conscious 09:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• The Crashing Sisters is a vanity page I have tagged for speedy as well. (as is Sucky-Sucky Records) Nuttah68 09:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete as above.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by J Milburn (talk • contribs).
• Speedy delete per nom and Nuttah. -- Kicking222 17:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete as above. Yamaguchi先生 23:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete per nom. R.E. Freak 02:24, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete, not notable or just a hoax. — TheKMan^talk 23:31, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maximum Cultural Development

This article was prodded by two different anons. User:68.193.96.236 listed the afd on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2006 May 30, but, obviously, could not create this page. I have replaced the prod with an afd tag and made the afd page as a public service. I have no vote. BigDT 12:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. This is a vanity article and original research. The main contributor is User:Codestream, who according to my quick google search is the same person as Marcus Tremble (which I'm about to AfD), see [30]. More importantly, this is original research; the sources it cites do not back up any of the content, but rather are supportive of some part of the ideas involved, as sources cited in an original paper would be. Also, frankly, I have no idea what this article is supposed to be about, but it sounds like marketing buzz more than anything else. Mangojuice^talk 12:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• While we're at it, check out Talk:Maximum Cultural Development. This is clearly OR. Mangojuice^talk 12:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - POV push from DEMRI. Cannot find any references to the term meaning anything listed in the article outside this group. fails WP:V- Peripitus 12:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Clear example of original research. —Cuiviénen^T|C|@ on Tuesday, 30 May 2006 at 12:48 UTC
• Delete. OR. Pavel Vozenilek 02:08, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, original research and POV pushing. Stifle (talk) 12:00, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In Response

I appreciate the opportunity to address this issue. The term "Vanity" seems very innapropriate, in that the motivation for posting the Maximum Cultural Development (MCD) article is rooted in an appreciation for mankinds ability to adapt to his/her environment.

Premises: All things enduring move through (4) progressive phases... These four (4) phases are: development, establishment, maintenance, and refinement...

Almost everything we see around us is at different stages in this process. Understanding this basic, universal concept empowers the knower with the ability to successfully architect positive change. This process also includes ourselves as people. What phase are we oriented towards as individuals, and/or as a group of people? What phase does your personal every day life reflect?

Though we as individuals come and go, we have the blessed opportunity of leaving behind us things that endure for those to come after us, our children... For our young ones to survive and thrive with dignity, it is up to each and every one of us to contribute in some way to the heritage, legacy, and culture that will be looked upon by those of us to come.

The concept of Culture, when fully understood is a very powerful one... It should be noted that even an elaborate inventory of the parts and traits of a culture cannot adequately characterize it. Cultures have organization as well as content. Emphasis on some features as opposed others and the total interrelation of the isolable parts has much to do with the distinctive properties of a culture, in addition to the way they work together as a system. Many definitions have been submitted by scholars from many countries, from all fields of social and biological science and the humanities and in aggregate form the foundational basis for this article. Those herein are contemporary since this is the focus of the topic.

Culture: is the complex system of meaning and behavior that defines the way of life for a given group or society. It includes beliefs, values, knowledge, art, morals, laws, habits, language, and dress. Culture includes ways of thinking as well as patterns of behavior. Observing culture involves studying what people think, how they interact, and the objects they make and use.

The second emphasizes culture as a comprehensive totality and enumerates aspects of culture content. Franz Boas: “Culture embraces all the manifestations of social habits of a community, the reactions of the individual as affected by the habits of the group in which he/she lives, and the products of human activities as determined by these habits.” The third is built on the feature of social inheritance. Ralph Linton: “As a general term, culture means the total social heredity of man-kind, while as a specific term, a culture means a particular strain of social heredity.”

The fourth emphasizes culture as a way of life, a design for living. Paul Sears: “The way in which the people in any group do things, make and use tools, get along with one another and with other groups, the words they use and the way they use them to express thoughts, and the thoughts they think...”

The fifth is psychological in the sense that processes such as adjustment, learning, and habit are single out. Culture as a problem-solving device is stressed. Ralph Piddington: “The culture of a people may be defined as the sum total of the material and intellectual equipment whereby they satisfy their biological and social needs and adapt themselves to their environment.”

The sixth identifies as central the patterning or organization of culture, and its systemic quality. John Gillin: “Culture consists of patterned and functionally interrelated customs common to specifiable human beings composing specifiable social groups or categories.” The seventh and final definition used here focuses on culture as an accumulated product of group life. Kimball Young: “A precipitate of man’s social life.”

Wikipedia itself comfortably falls within the MCD framework with a stated mission of providing free and open access to knowledge resources (assets) for all... Its also reflects adherence to the above stated four phase process.

Wikipedia strays from the process, however, through its rampant merging of vaild, free-standing, concepts (articles) which represent Reusable Learning Assets (RLAs). A classic manifestation of european hegemony...

Maximum Cultural Development warrants that: "We must be producers of culture, not passive consumers of it. Cultural development must be intentional and proactive, focused on clear and valid goals with a concrete vision of how to attain them. We are inundated by language, symbols, ideas, and technology, none of which is neutral. We must therefore define where we stand with regard to them and adopt appropriate intellectual and behavioral responses, if we are to be champions and not victims."

May we all be blessed with deeper understanding. Thank you for allowing me to share... Marcus William Tremble--Codestream 10:17, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:32, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jørn Are Vigestad Berge

Appears to fail WP:MUSIC. kingboyk 09:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, 570 Ghits.--Jusjih 15:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, I get only 9 hits when excluding Wikipedia mirrors. Punkmorten 20:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. No evidence of meeting WP:MUSIC, this page seems to be trying to fool people with sources. Grandmasterka 01:45, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete fails WP:MUSIC. --Eivind^t@c 06:20, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:32, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jennifer J. Tom

Vanity, questionable notability. kingboyk 10:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Her book is published by AuthorHouse, an obvious vanity press, and 13 GHits (all WP mirrors, it seems) would seem to cast doubts on her notability as a model, too. Seb Patrick 10:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment I note that Googling "Jennifer Tom" rather than "Jennifer J. Tom" turns up rather more hits, although still less than a thousand, and many of these are lists of names that happen to go "Jennifer, Tom". There are references made to her CD release, but I would still argue that she fails WP:MUSIC. Seb Patrick 11:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per Seb Patrick. Forbsey 10:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, tagged as a copyvio from here, as well. -- Kjkolb 21:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete due to copyvio HighInBC 21:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Keep. Yanksox 20:44, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jim Cash

One co-writing credit on a moderately successful film. I think not notable. kingboyk 10:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Appears to be notable. A number of related hits on google. Also has an entry on IMDB. Forbsey 10:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep A writer on several films, seems notable enough and it's not as if we need the space. Ben W Bell talk 10:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Weak keep as per above (certainly a writer on a few films rather than just one - is that enough?), although I note the tense needs changing. Seb Patrick 11:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Would be nice if it was expanded a little, but he certainly deserves an article. J Milburn 12:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, meets WP:BIO. --Terence Ong 16:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep and expand Has a sufficient filmography, needs a bit of expansion but otherwise fine starting point. R.E. Freak 02:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Appears to be a notable film writer. — TheKMan^talk 23:29, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete by DaGizza. Metros232 13:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VH1's List of 40 Greatest Metal Songs - Criticisms

Original research, personal opinion, essay... Whatever you want to call it, it's not encyclopedic content. Zetawoof^(ζ) 10:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• On the other hand, the author blanked it after I added the AFD notice. So this might be a speedy as author request... Zetawoof^(ζ) 10:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - Obviously now it's a completely irrelevant speedy, but looking at the pre-AfD revision, I'd almost suggest putting it in BJAODN purely for what might be the longest capitalised header I've ever seen - "INCLUSIONS OF SONGS BY ARTISTS WHO MADE OTHER SONGS THAT WERE EXCLUDED FROM THE LIST BUT WHICH WERE OF EVEN HIGHER QUALITY AND/OR HAD EVEN MORE INFLUENCE ON THE METAL GENRE THAN THE SONGS ACTUALLY INCLUDED". Marvellous. Seb Patrick 11:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no consensus. Mailer Diablo 13:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Columbia Records artists

I found this lying around, and it's just an incomplete list of people "...who have recorded for Columbia Records" - Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Abstain from voting. — FireFox 10:10, 30 May '06 10:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Needs to be in a category. --kingboyk 10:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I was going to suggest that but I forgot, heh. ...terrible memory... — FireFox 10:28, 30 May '06

Merge it with the Columbia Records article. Steelbeard1 12:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as listcruft. --Guinnog 12:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Categorize and delete. -- Docether 14:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per my partial (and continuing) revamp. A PERFECT example of what a list can do that a category just is not capable of. Jcuk 15:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Assuming the "charting" of the artists continues, I vote keep. There's more info than could be provided by a category, and if the beginning of the page is any indication, this is definitely a worthwhile article. -- Kicking222 17:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• comment it will, but it might take me a coupla days, what with other things going on...Jcuk 22:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, even with Wikipedia's unprecedented scope, I don't think that this is encyclopedic. -- Kjkolb 21:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• comment compared with List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number I beg to differ! *g* Jcuk 07:01, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep as useful list and look forward to JCUK's further work. Capitalistroadster 21:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep needs to be cleaned up, but it is a useful list.  Grue  10:23, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, or make category. Not useful as a list, would be better as a self-maintaining category. Stifle (talk) 12:02, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Julio Cavalli

Doesn't appear to be any more notable than the average professor. Another janitorial nom as I plough through the "importance"-tagged articles. kingboyk 10:18, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete none of the organisations of which he is supposedly President appear to actually exist, I find find no reference to them. Ben W Bell talk 12:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, probable hoax. See WP:HOLE. Stifle (talk) 12:02, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy deleted per A7 by User:DaGizza. --Arnzy ^{(whats up?)} 15:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drew Granger

Delete Blatant vanity. Forbsey 10:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy delete, {{db-band}}. Weregerbil 10:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete, A7. Tagged. PJM 11:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:30, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pextip forums

Non-notable rather small chat site. No claim per WP:WEB. Deprodded. Weregerbil 10:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Popular in Judo circles; hold the deletion [anon. user]
• Do not Delete [unknown user]
• Delete as above Nuttah68 10:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. PJM 11:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. "We have 25 registered members...Most users ever online was 7..." Speaks for itself.--Fuhghettaboutit 13:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete clearly fails WP:WEB. --Arnzy ^{(whats up?)} 15:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, fails WP:WEB. --Terence Ong 16:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete for failing the WP:WEB criteria. Yamaguchi先生 23:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:30, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1000 Words (2008 film)

Film is only in development. Many films are but never make it to screen Pally01 11:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Crystallballism.--Fuhghettaboutit 13:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. --Arnzy ^{(whats up?)} 15:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete this is promotional use of Wikipedia Elizmr 20:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete What's to say this project won't be shelved?Ohyeahmormons 02:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above. MikeWazowski 04:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy delete per CSD:A7. Stifle (talk) 12:01, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marcus Tremble

Contested prod. WP:AUTO, non-notable entrepreneur. Note that User:Codestream, the main editor of this page, is likely Marcus Tremble himself: [31]. Note that this article also has no content apart from the external link to the DEMRI Portal project, a project at opencourse.org, not suitable for inclusion in wikipedia... other than that link, this is just a "list of interests." Also, note that User:Codestream points here. Delete. Mangojuice^talk 12:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - No assertion of notability in the article whatsoever, so it's not even as if there's an issue to debate. Especially surprised that User:Codestream simply points there - would suggest that this person puts the info in the article on their userpage instead. Seb Patrick 12:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Only notability is WP:OR Maximum Cultural Development which is going poorly in Afd. No assertion of any notability - Peripitus 12:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ben Fry

Possible vanity page in the manspace. Mostly Rainy 12:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• "Possible" vanity? Hardly any infos; one vague and adulatory quote. Delete. BuckRose 17:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Notability has not been demonstrated. HighInBC 17:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - notability is not demonstrated. - Richardcavell 23:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:BIO. Stifle (talk) 12:01, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was merge and redirect to House (TV series). Johnleemk | Talk 15:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia for House (TV Series)

WP:NOT, this article is a list of random facts, which would be better served on the [[House (TV series}]] page

It makes the article too long and unencyclopedic.NeoThe1 13:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Crazynas 12:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Merge. Mostly Rainy 12:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep or Merge This is information relevant to the show.
• Merge relevant bits to the House article. Delete the rest. Trivia is merely a collection of random facts or factoids often of doubtful reliability. If it is important enough to be encyclopedic, it isn't trivia. Capitalistroadster 13:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy merge and redirect. We don't need AfD for this. I already did the same for the article on awards. (And after we merge it back, we trim the unencyclopedic cruft.) Johnleemk | Talk 14:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep or merge MarineCorps 14:18, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge per Capitalistroadster. Best, Docether 14:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• I'm retracting my nomonation per Johnleemk, provided it is Merged and redirected. Crazynas 15:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy Keep - Nominator Withdraws Computerjoe's talk 17:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] London Dial-a-Ride

Non-notable part of London Transport Computerjoe's talk 12:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep, a notable service (especially for its users), providing door-to-door public transport in London for those with difficulties with mobility. For example, in the period 2003 - 2004 61,000 people completed 1,325,000 journeys using 316 buses and 397 drivers. The latest statistics, for April 2006, showed 66,000 passengers made 107,000 trips.Markb 13:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - with the obvious exception of the Tube and the buses, I'd say it's just as notable as the other arms of TfL. It's a well-used and well-publicised service. Seb Patrick 13:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep per all above. Without this many Londoners would find it almost impossible to get around. Try telling them its not notable! Jcuk 15:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep per all above --Guinnog 16:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Amin Wright

Delete minor league player. U.S. Basketballers are generally notable if they've played in the NBA or had a notable college career. This one had neither. He plays for the Newark Express, a minor league team. Lots of teams are listed here American Basketball Association (21st century) but far as I could tell none of them have player bios, unless, of course, they had previously played in the NBA. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 12:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• To me, minor league basketball players aren't inherently notable. This guy appears to have received some recognition as a college player, but it was on the division III level. Unless there is something else this guy should be notable for, then I say delete ScottW 13:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, per rationale above. PJM 14:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, per above. --EngineerScotty 21:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC) (forgot to sign initially)
• Delete per above. Grandmasterka 01:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Carlos Krystal

Delete. This article was previously deleted by PROD (I was the deleting admin, but not the tagging editor). This is a verbatim reappearance. I cannot verify the existence of this genetically-impossible porn performer from IMDb (the top find isn't him), or from Google. This makes the so-called facts in the article probably unverifiable, apart from the fact that they admit to being impossible. The article also appears to imply original research. It seems likely that this person either does not exist, or is a teenager with an inflated sense of importance, or is so non-notable he is off the bottom of everyone's charts or that this is actually a veiled attack page. In any case, it should go. -Splash^talk 13:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Even if true, a porno actor with no google hits but to Wikipedia (he also has a Spanish language Wikipedia article) and its mirrors is very not notable. --Fuhghettaboutit 13:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, per reasons above. PJM 14:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, per above (preferrably speedy delete per WP:IAR) Captainj 14:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as per above. The genetic impossibility part is funny, though. -- Kjkolb 21:18, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Impossible, indeed. Porn actors should get a ton of google hits. Grandmasterka 01:55, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete recreated deleted article. B.Wind 03:00, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Please check the manner in which WP:PROD works, and the information I have in my nomination. -Splash^talk 12:24, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sango123 20:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lift Auntie

I don't see the value in listing an individual online video unless it has particular global interest dvc214 13:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

This article provide factual basis for an incident which is off interest to netizen, it collates with the increasing trend of Singaporean seeking alternative source of information from the internet, instead of relying on a government controlled mainstream media, which is often biased and selective in its reporting. Hence it should not be deleted.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by SixSigma (talk • contribs).

• Delete Not notable. Wikipedia is not Youtube / Google Video. Bwithh 14:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Non-encyclopedic content. A fracas between non-notable people captured on Handycam. Youtube is the better location.  (aeropagitica)  (talk)  15:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete This is so non-notable to be ridiculous. Maybe it can be added in a subsection in the Hong Kong guy's entry. gssq 10:03, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

What about the hong kong bus uncle then? Why is it ok to have it online but not this?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.50.80.34 (talk • contribs).

• Comment. Bus Uncle hasn't been nominated for deletion. Yet. (The article's only a week old.) Fan1967 17:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, my mistake. It was nominated and kept. - Fan1967 17:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• I would personally vote to delete Bus Uncle, but its more notable than Lift Auntie due to the discussion in the media and its impact on HK popular culture Bwithh 00:00, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Please do not delete it. It is a very interesting analysis of the effect of stress in Singapore. I am going to write a thesis about this incident in my project. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.156.6.54 (talk • contribs).
• We should not turn our backs on this. Perhaps even reclassify them under "Stressed out Singaporeans". Singapore can't be as clean and white as what the world thinks it to be.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 219.75.62.160 (talk • contribs).
• But this might be also become part of the news in the future. give it some time.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.122.116.153 (talk • contribs).

There are many of such cases (cat fights, verbal abuses, vandalism) in Singapore since independence. What's different now is that these incidence can now be filmed and publish by anyone.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mark limkk (talk • contribs).

• Delete We can't have a situation where every viral video clip gets it's own entry in Wikipedia, unless you can you please suggest a wider category to merge this into, and perhaps Bus Uncle as well? dvc214 08:38, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

No. Lift Auntie and Bus Uncle are stranger to each other. One is in Hong Kong one is in Singapore. I suggest they both falls under the title: "Human Rage"—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mark limkk (talk • contribs).

I think this can be filed under Citizen journalism or Internet Vigilantism—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.122.116.153 (talk • contribs).

• Delete I can see a phenomenon represented by this incident being an article, but the incident itself is nn. Tychocat 01:55, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Tychocat. deadkid_dk 02:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - need examples of notability, i.e. mentions in the press and such. If that occurs then recreate the article. As of now it appears to be vanity. --Ben Houston 02:52, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

It is being tommorrowed http://tomorrow.sg/trackback/url/4626

• A trackback is not a Tomorrow gssq 10:03, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, random nn meme. Stifle (talk) 12:00, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. - Mailer Diablo 13:12, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 13:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tripter

Advertisement masquerading as article. Link to website contains what looks like a tracking ID. Fails WP:WEB - no google hits. Mr Stephen 13:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. PJM 14:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete obviously and ad. Captainj 14:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. I'm going to eliminate the tracking ID for now. Grandmasterka 01:56, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete advertisment for a non-notable web business. — TheKMan^talk 23:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Ezeu 02:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Grody

Wikipedia is not a slang dictionary. Deprodded by anonymous contributor. Accurizer 13:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• • Merge When I made this nomination I was not aware of the Valspeak article. I agree it should be merged per Elkman. Accurizer 13:10, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Captainj 14:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, like, totally. -- Docether 14:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• ... and I was like, you've totally gotta Delete that, and he was like, dude, that's a keeper. And I was like totally freaking out, and he said it was like totally bitching, and I was, like, grody to the max, and .... Sorry, what was the question again? -- GWO
• As slang goes, I'd say it's notable enough (well, I've heard of it, and I don't live in the place it's used) - if WP were a home for simple slang definitions. Since it isn't... delete. Seb Patrick 15:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Like, this subject is totally covered in Valspeak. I think we should totally merge Grody into Valspeak and redirect it. That would be the most tubular solution. The article, on its own, is kinda sketchy. Like, I'm so sure that we need a separate article. --Ondrya Wolfson... er, Elkman 15:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Ok, fine, for sure, for sure - Merge with Valley Girl. :-) Ac@osr 17:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge per the valleygirls. Grandmasterka 02:01, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was KEEP -- 9cds^(talk) 01:13, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Akhilesh Prasad Singh

Vanity, NPOV, all-but orphanned, borders on prophecy... you can throw the book at it! Happy-melon 13:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Keep, if it is verified that he is Member of the Parliament from Motihari, Bihar, India. --Bhadani 13:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I have given a reference, and recommnd a clear Keep. A member of the Indian Parliament is an important public figure. He is also a minister. --Bhadani 14:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
    • He represents 14th Lok Sabha and with this article, a redline (of his name) there is glowing wiki-blue. --Bhadani 14:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep It's barely a stub, and a poor one at that, but being a member of the Indian parliament meets basic standards of notability. It would help if they'd spelled his district correctly, but google confirms an MP by that name was elected in 2004 from Motihari. Fan1967 13:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep. An Indian Cabinet Minister and MP is clearly notable. Could do with more info etc. Captainj 14:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep - Notable enough. --Gurubrahma 11:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Keep. Yanksox 01:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Veronica Ruiz de Velasco

Probably a hoax or an unknown amateur artist; there are only two wiki-independent hits in Google ([32]); links in the article mostly lead nowhere or to general art sites without mentions about Velasco; therefore AfD per WP:BIO Ioannes Pragensis 14:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Note: this has been listed on WikiProject Deletion sorting/Visual arts.Tyrenius 00:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep I came across this article a few weeks ago and thought it might be an AfD, but there's too much substantiaton. The references section of the article has sufficient press mentions and there are also shows in public buildings. As the magazine articles have been scanned for her site here, here and here, there's no reason to doubt the genuineness of the "Newspapers in Mexico" section (NB all 1986–89). The shows are also supported by photos. There's a large show of work "Gallery of the Benito Juarez International Airport in Mexico City, Mexico". There's one "Museo de Arte Moderno, México", where you can see her name displayed outside the building. There's an official opening "ABC (American British Cowdray) Hospital, México". It's undoubtedly not a hoax and the evidence shows she's not an "unknown amateur" artist. However, most of the activity is mid 1980s – mid 1990s and the mentions in print form, both of which would explain the current lack of web hits. The links in the article need pruning certainly. Tyrenius 19:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

On the other side, a few exhibitions in mostly small, privately owned galleries + some mentions in life-style magazines (written perhaps by people without art education) + one mural painting given to a hospital (the celebrities were of course present not because of the mural, not because of the painter, but because of the inauguration of the hospital) + one or two artefacts presented as a part of collective exhibitions in serious galleries - this does not constitute notability in the world of artists. Now she seems to be completely forgotten outside of Wikipedia, in the phase of life, when most artists are at the heights of their activity. In WP:BIO, the criteria for inclusion are much more strict: "Painters ... whose work is widely recognized (for better or worse) and likely to become a part of the enduring historical record of that field."--Ioannes Pragensis 19:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

So you agree she's not a "hoax or an unknown amateur artist", which was why you made the AfD in the first place. Now it's a matter of judgement as to how notable or otherwise. Obviously not top rank, but probably has as much presence in the art world as, for example, many bands do in the music world for whom articles are retained. She has had shows in private and public spaces, and she has been covered in the press including the New York Times (Shown, John; “Veronica Put Theater on Canvas”, New York Times, October, 1986). Check out the Newspapers section of the article. This seems to me to be sufficient verifiable coverage in the public domain to merit retaining this article. Tyrenius 21:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I still think that it is both: A hoax because it depicts her as an important artist (which is clearly not the case); and perhaps an amateur artist who was a member of the Mexican high society 15 years ago but earned few critical acclaim and is forgotten today. - The nawspapers cited in the article are not independent critical studes but just normal newspapers. Wikipedia should reflect importance of its subjects, not generate it.--Ioannes Pragensis 21:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

She had a solo show at the Museo de Arte Moderno, Mexico City. This is the Mexican national museum with "the best permanent exhibition of painters and sculptors from the modern Mexican art movement. It also features some of the most important temporary exhibitions of national and international modern art in the world."[33] — hardly a "small, privately owned gallery" The article makes no claim of any "importance" specifically. It just states the facts of where she has had exhibitions and where she has been mentioned in print. A "hoax" is when something is fictitious, which this is clearly not. An "amateur" artist is not someone who has a solo show in a national museum or who exhibits in professional (i.e. by definition "private") galleries. Normal newspapers, as you put it, are acceptable sources to verify the notability of a person. It is not our job to evaluate whether she is a good, bad or indifferent artist quality-wise. Tyrenius 21:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I wrote much of this article based on her information on her website. The article has a neutral view and based on facts presented from several articles/photographs from her official website. Tyrenius has been really helpful in making sure this article is wikipedia formatted correctly and factful. With Veronica being in the National Museum of Mexico in 1986 and her teacher was Rufino Tamayo (one of the most famous painters of Mexico) and Jean Dubuffet, one cannot simply forget Ms. Ruiz de Velasco. Also, the Director of Mexico Art has confirmed this in a letter. Check out Letter from Bellas Artes Director and Director of the Modern Art Museum In terms of importance, I concluded from her website that if the owner of two professional hockey team has bought her art for a substantial price, then she might be notable. Also, in the 80's she had a show at the Museum of Modern Art in Mexico. In the late 90's she had a show at the Irving Art Center. [34] The Irving Art Center is a Museum for Contemporary Artist. This was also a solo exhibition and cannot be forgotten. Also, she was chosen by the Dallas Museum of Art for art charity. This is also a notable National institution. They do not ask anyone for art charity. I am all for deleted this if someone could simply remove the fact that Veronica has been in several National Museums. Also her teachers were Rufino Tamayo and Jean Dubuffet, and she has sold paintings at a notable price. Also, in terms of her mural at the ABC Hospital. It seems that the ABC Hospital in Mexico City is a world class private hospital built in 1954. Therefore, Prince Charles and the US Ambassador did not show up to this hospital to inaugurate the hospital, but most likely to inaugurate her mural. There are pictures on her website. Please check out this website [35] for more information on the hospital. Also, she completed a mural for the Hamon Building at Southwest Medical Center which is a world renowned facility. Nancy Hamon is a very notable individual. It would seem that if Mrs. Hamon had issues with the notability of Veronica, why did she ask her to create a mural for her building? [36][37] Kmowery11:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Weak keep. Not a hoax, but perhaps somewhat a vanity article. Does not meet this notability criterion: Painters, sculptors, architects, engineers, and other professionals whose work is widely recognized (for better or worse) and likely to become a part of the enduring historical record of that field. --Lambiam^Talk 22:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC) Not quite convinced, but giving the article the benefit of the doubt. (And – I know this is not an argument – I like the paintings.) --Lambiam^Talk 23:17, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that with a solo show at the The Museo de Arte Moderno and being included in the museum's twenty-five year celebration book, she is already part of the enduring historical record.Tyrenius 00:27, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

My problem with this is that the only source for all this seems to be Kmowery, whose links in the Ruiz de Velasco article are generally not reliable, to put it mildly. Moreover, he/she tries to advertise Ruiz de Velasco with all possible means - study the list of his/her contributions. - The mentioned Ruiz de Velasco exhibition should have been 20 years ago, when Ruiz de Velasco allegedly studied painting - so perhaps a student exhibition. --Ioannes Pragensis 05:52, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually try to review her website with scanned articles and photographs. I have tried to list her on other pages according to her categories and wikipedia guidelines. Tyrenius has been helping make sure that the listings are factual. He has edited several articles. If you see something that she should not be listed under let me know. Kmowery

Kmowery isn't the only source. Kmowery is the only author (of the article). There are plenty of sources given, and backed up by scans/photos if you follow the links in my first statement above. Her name is prominently shown in a photo of the Museo de Arte Moderno for example. The (external) links are reliable—they all link to what they state and are relevant to items mentioned in the text e.g. a particular museum. I think what you mean is that they don't necessarily show an artist mention at that museum, so they don't all need to be there. I have transformed some into a "see also" section. Re. "advertising", there is an explanation on User talk:Kmowery: Veronica Ruiz de Velasco was my first article. However, I tried to base it on fact and her information she provides on her website. I did not know that it is not good to put her in many different locations in Wikipedia. My bad. I thought you were suppose to add her to all the categories listed in her article. Let us AGF. Anyway, that's not a reason to delete the article—it's a reason to remove the mentions from excessive other pages. Also, artists do sometimes get prominent shows while they're still studying, so that's not problematic.Tyrenius 09:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

NB I have edited this article but only in a technical sense to cleanup and wikify, not with contributing material. Tyrenius 09:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep After re-reviewing the website articles/photos, the facts remain constant. There is no reason to delete this article. I however do appreciate the input, and the chance to provide feedback. Kmowery 23:52, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, seems notable and valid. Stifle (talk) 12:00, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was. already deleted. Userfied to User:Kshitizsaxena. --Ezeu 14:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kshitiz

spam, advertising, no useful content, not even the suggestion of notability, maybe even a dash of vanity - that's for others to decide. Get rid of it! Happy-melon 14:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no consensus delete. -Ezeu 03:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CineMasters Studios

Non notable "studios" and bordering on vanity. It "may grow in notability"[38] says the author of the article and founder of CM Studios. It *may* be an article to have in the future then. As for now, I don't think so -- Equendil 14:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. A handful of 2-to-15 minute films, distributed on freewebtown.com, definitely not notable. Fan1967 14:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Dammit. Well, I thought they were good films... Perhaps we could hit Hollywood one day, if only you people would give us a chance. And about "it may grow in notability"- having it on Wikipedia is just another way to make it more notable.TheVortex

• Comment Which is exactly the problem. Wikipedia is not to promote things and help them become notable. It is for things which are already notable. Fan1967 16:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Well then, please recommend me another site where I can publish my so-called 'advertisements'. Thanks for your time, I'll just get my coat and go. TheVortex

• There are any number of free hosting sites, from geocities to myspace to youtube. Wikipedia is intended as an encyclopedia, and has criteria for inclusion. Fan1967 16:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Vortex, take it easy. For starters, you are wrong about Wikipedia being a place to get known. This site's traffic isn't as good as MySpace. If you get a MySpace account in the "film" section I guarantee you about 200 hits a day and you get to add embeded video. It's the best promotion you could get besides getting to interact with other filmmakers than can help you in the future. This wikipedia BS gets only a quarter of the traffic you could achieve in MySpace. So don't sweat it.BrandNew21 03:30, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

That's true, but there's more chance of being noticed by the public on a site like Wikipedia (as you have just proven) than there is on, say, geocities or myspace. TheVortex 16:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• I suggest Google Video, your best bet to gain some visibility online *if* your short movies are actually good. Equendil 18:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh forget it, I'll just go. There's no point in fighting the system. Allow me to copy and paste everything I've written in the article into another website, and I'll be off. Now, how do I delete my account...? TheVortex 16:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete: I am sure they are good films. The trick to breaking into the industry though is to continue to make films, continue to show them at festivals, and to continue to network with as many other people as possible. Posting advertisements on Wikipedia will not further your film career. User accounts are never deleted. That said, you do have the right to vanish. --Hetar 17:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Well then, I guess I'll vanish. I'd stick around to delete my article, but I'm a busy guy and I've got movies to make. Peace out. TheVortex 17:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• KEEP: If i'm not mistaken. Isn't wikipedia the effort to sum all human knowledge? This guy is making films, he exists, he is human. Ok. So then why are we denying him the right to exist in wikipedia? because the wiki users are all so afraid that the guy could make a buck if people get to find him here and read about it?. People, wake up, you know what wikipedia is? wikipedia is what wikipedia is not. Exactly. Why you deny this guy the right to make an article about his production company? because its not important enough yet? wait a second, who has the authority to say this guy isn't important yet? If someone gets to see this guy's films and then wants to know a little bit more about him then they MIGHT turn to wikipedia and look for him.... but oh no... they won't because you guys THINK that you have the authority to get rid of him. Wikipedia IS NOT a reliable source of information because of people like YOU. So stop trying to make it one, this is just a site to let people give definitions to things in the world, not to qualify you and him and them according if they are important enough. So get off his back and let him keep the freaking article.BrandNew21 03:41, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment You are mistaken. Wikipedia is not remotely an effort to sum all human knowledge. Fan1967 14:30, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• keep: if we delete this guy then we might as well delete any reference to Britney Spears music, Vanilla ice, the country Ecuador and some of those contries no one has ever heard of. No one is important and less important here. This is a site for definitions not importance meters.72.229.107.247 03:47, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Note This looks a lot like a duplicate vote, in that the user page for72.229.107.247 was edited by BrandNew21, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to suspect they're the same person. Fan1967 14:30, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Wikipedia is not a dictionary, which is where 'definitions' go, and wikipedia is not for advertising, see WP:WINAD, WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not a soapbox, see also WP:CORP. -- Equendil 04:05, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - Google search on "CineMasters Studios" doesn't even return a single hit. Not a one. Obviously the group exists, since they've created this page, but this is about as non-notable and unverifiable as it gets. MikeWazowski 05:05, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I started an argument? Cool.

Oh, and BrandNew21 and 72.229.107.247, thanks for agreeing to keep this article. You guys rule. As for Fan1967, your line about 'This looks a lot like a duplicate vote, in that the user page for72.229.107.247 was edited by BrandNew21, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to suspect they're the same person' really doesn't seem neccessary. If you felt that my article really needed to be deleted that badly, you wouldn't need to say desperate stuff like 'Ooh, I think that's a duplicate vote'. No offence or anything. And about Google search- I can't work out how to get my website into Google. Should it get indexed automatically?TheVortex 14:24, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Try http://www.google.fr/addurl/?continue=/addurl -- Equendil 17:26, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Read this and tell me you think it's "desperate" to believe that they're the same person. (BTW, it's routine in AfD discussions to identify suspect votes). - Fan1967 19:17, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Ah, well if it's routine in AfD discussions, then I guess you should point out duplicate voters. No problem. TheVortex 19:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep: Honestly no one is going to search for "cinemasters studios" in Wikipedia unless they really wanted to find something out about it, this article could hardly be considered "advertising"! Surely this is an Internet resource for people to expand and use happily?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by XOdd Ladx (talk • contribs).

• Note It's also routine to point out when a vote comes from a brand new user with no other Wikipedia edits. Fan1967 21:17, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Note: Is this just a point out and not a put down? XOdd Ladx 08:34, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

True, but he or she does make a valid argument. TheVortex 21:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Not really. It's a pretty common one, though, whenever someone wants to keep an article on some little-known person or thing. Only problem is, it ignores Wikipedia standards, and without those, all you've got is an unregulated forum. Fan1967 21:52, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Stifle (talk) 11:56, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was redirect. Punkmorten 22:45, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of notable shopping malls in Sydney

Delete as redundant article, since it's already listed here --Arnzy ^{(whats up?)} 14:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Sydney is the only page that points to it (so maybe someone didn't know about List of shopping centres in Australia), so a redirect from Sydney would be appropriate. --Elkman 15:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. SM247 20:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to list of shopping centres in Australia so as to ensure that someone doesn't recreate the article by mistake. Capitalistroadster 22:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions. -- Capitalistroadster 22:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect as per above suggestions--A Y Arktos\^talk 01:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect--cj | talk 07:51, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect per above. JPD (talk) 09:46, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to List of shopping centres in Australia per above. — TheKMan^talk 23:27, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hexentanz

Probable original research essay on witches sabbat. Doesn't actually say what 'hexentanz' is. Delete ::Supergolden:: 14:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• The initial entry was a single sentence: "Witches dance practiced in the Middle Ages as a way to profane the church." This has been replaced by a poorly written essay full of vague pontification with no citations. Delete. BuckRose 17:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. This text is about witches' sabbaths generally; it does not relate to the title. "Hexentanz" is just German for "witches' dance," and names a fairly well known German band, as well as a number of "witches' dance" pieces of classical music by German composers from the Renaissance forward. Any of these might be worthy of an article, as would an English-titled article about dances allegedly performed at witches' sabbaths. This text will not help. Smerdis of Tlön 19:18, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and above. -- Kicking222 20:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. This is original research and not particularly helpful. If the German band is notable, it could go here. Grandmasterka 02:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Mailer Diablo 13:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Morris W. Offit

Fails WP:BIO. 1,000 Ghits without middle initial, and 17,000 Ghits with. M1ss1ontomars2k4 | T | C | @ 02:51, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, nn--Jusjih 13:49, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - if we delete this, we should probably delete all of the Board of AIG articles. Not sure I have a strong feeling on whether board members of a clearly notable company are notable or not, but we should be consistent. -Jcbarr 15:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep. According to the article he is the director of American International Group, a major insurance corporation based in New York City. It is the fourth-largest company in the world according to the 2006 Forbes Global 2000 list. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by THE KING (talk • contribs) 15:58, 23 May 2006.

• Comment. Correction: he is a director of AIG, a very different thing. It means he's a member of the board. Fan1967 17:44, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Roger that. I'll still vote to keep though. how do you use strikethrough? can someone who knows strike my prev vote. THE KING 18:11, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Put a <s> in front and a </s> after whatever you want to strikethrough. Fan1967 18:15, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I've done it for you. --M1ss1ontomars2k4 | T | C | @ 22:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Agree with Jcbarr. The rest should be looked at. Merely serving on a corporate board is insufficient, even for a major corporation, unless the people have other claims to notability. Fan1967 17:49, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and cleanup. As important as Google hits are, more important from our point of view is reliable third party sources such as this Forbes profile see [39]. People appointed to Boards of Directors are normally notable in their won right. He founded Offitbank which merged with the Wachovia Bank in 1999. He was formerly Chairman of the Board of John Hopkins University see [40] He is a close friend and adviser to New York mayor Michael Bloomberg see [41]. Article is a mess though and needs to be rewritten. Capitalistroadster 19:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

 AfD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Ezeu 14:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep and cleanup. Adding just the info from Capitalistroadster above would IMHO assert notability. -Jcbarr 15:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: The article should do more to explain Offit's notability. As Capitalistroadster commented above, there are articles about him that would establish notability. If the article included those references, I'd vote to keep it. --Elkman 15:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and cleanup. --Terence Ong 16:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per above. Also, 17 THOUSAND Google hits for "Morris W. Offit"? How could this guy possibly not be notable enough for an article? -- Kicking222 20:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smokelahoma

This article really tries to cover two subjects. One is the band which I don't think is notable (WP:MUSIC). The second is a reference to smoking ban laws in Oklahoma. I can't seem to find any reference to this term and I've never heard the term used (so it's also NN). Ash Lux ^{(talk | Contribs)} 14:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, 2230 Ghits.--Jusjih 15:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination. A Google search doesn't bring up the smoking-related term at all, though the band gets a couple of mentions. SchuminWeb (Talk) 16:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

  Most of those mentions seem to be selling the music and not really about the band. Even obscure books and such get hits like that (A History of the Oklahoma State University campus, for example). Ash Lux ^{(talk | Contribs)} 16:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Article on fictional state which doesn't assert notability + article on band which doesn't assert notability = crap that should be deleted on all fronts. -- Kicking222 20:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Additional note The article's creator has been warned multiple times about vandalism, including adding links (sometimes vandalising other links) to this article on other pages. -- Kicking222 20:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Note on my note User:Ghetteaux should really be blocked, as he added this linkage to a lot of pages. -- Kicking222 20:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
    • noat on your note on my note you know that saying about 'glass houses?' please watch the libel. --Ghetteaux 19:14, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete As an Oklahoman, I've never heard this term, so... non-notable. - CNichols 00:16, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per everyone. Grandmasterka 02:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keap for smokers (a real minority), this is our xanadu. --Ghetteaux 11:01, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Amalas =^_^= 20:48, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per CNichols. I'm also an Oklahoman, and have also never heard it. Aluvus 15:30, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete as WP:CSD#A7 (note: the article does not meet WP:CSD#A2). Kusma (討論) 00:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Milos Miljkovic

Delete pure vanity, user added self. 17 year old football player and author. already userfied. Article is in Serbo-Croatian, as best as myself and WP:PNT people could tell. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 15:09, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Addendum: my fluency in Russian makes me somewhat able to decipher Serbo-Croatian. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 16:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom.--Jusjih 15:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete. {{db-notenglish}}. --Fuhghettaboutit 16:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Nah. Either's it's notable and movable, in which case it first has to be moved, or it's NN here and in Serbian 'pedia, and here we are at AfD to figure it out - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 16:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• In order to properly determine for myself which way to fall on an afd, I need to be able to read the article, and be able to access resources in a language I am familiar in, and not rely second hand on another who speaks the language. I check myself on every afd and never just "per nom" without first doing my own due diligence. I am essentially precluded from doing so here as, I imagine, are most other editors. This article can be deleted based on that it is not English, and I have no basis for making a decision otherwise. I also imagine that collectively, editors on on the Serbian 'pedia are much better positioned to come to a measured debate than we are based on the same language/available resource problem. I am not saying we cannot do it here, just that there is no call for "nah"; in the absence of finding patent keep criteria, I cannot rely on my English resources for a reliable delete vote based on the merits of the subject article's notability. --Fuhghettaboutit 19:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Of course. I have asked HolyRomanEmperor, the only wiki-serb I know, to come and comment on this AfD. If you know others, please invite them as well. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 19:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy Delete per A2. The merits of the article are irrelevant; this is not written in English, and therefore liable for speedy deletion. RGTraynor 21:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

That's not true. WP:PNT exists to determine the merits of non-english articles. This is almost certainly not notable, but I've salvaged a few non-english things from there myself (see my userpage!) Grandmasterka 02:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy delete - already userfied. Subject may be notable, but article needs to be scraped clean and restarted. B.Wind 03:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy' the user added himself to the Manchester United article with text something like "Maybe new player is Milos Mikjkovic." He's also added himself to the article of a major a large soccer club: Radnički Niš. I did a google of the team: he does not appear on the roster of the team [42] ... those references should be removed as well. (My two semesters of Czech in Uni may not go provide for adequate translation of Serbo-Croatian, but from cognates... "Od sledece sezone je u potrazi za novim klubom,a njegovi omiljeni su" really seams that he wants to play on one of those teams "next season." ) --Kunzite 23:55, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete as per the nomination. --HolyRomanEmperor 18:32, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Mailer Diablo 22:27, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heron Bay

non-notable country club, golf course, etc. Delete ::Supergolden:: 15:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Yanksox 15:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as above Nuttah68 20:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Pure advertising, not notable. Grandmasterka 02:14, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Mailer Diablo 13:18, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heroes (TV Show)

Future TV show. WP:NOT crystal ball. Delete ::Supergolden:: 15:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom.--Jusjih 15:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, WP:NOT. --Terence Ong 16:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per the arrow of time.--Fuhghettaboutit 16:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - The pilot has an IMDB entry [43] and a number of notable actors. RGTraynor 21:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment what if the show comes out and absolutely flops and is quickly cancelled, causing barely a notable ripple, or is pulled before coming out (which happens all the time). Can you imagine voting to delete this article upon the unfolding of those future events? If the answer to that is other than an unqualified negative, isn't a prospective article about the show all the more unencyclopedic as ill-advised speculation? --Fuhghettaboutit 22:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment - Why, yes, I can imagine voting to delete something which 20:20 hindsight has deemed non-notable; why not? For instance, I'm looking forward to the AfDs a year or two from now where a lot of pop culture fad articles become vulnerable, when people realize how desperately unencyclopedic many are. We're entitled to change our minds, and furthermore we shouldn't be afraid to do so as situations warrant. RGTraynor 00:47, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment: The "pop culture fads" are annoying, but its the "internet memes" that'll be first against the wall. -- GWO

• Since it doesn't mention a broadcast network or a definite starting broadcast time, delete for now. Once more tangible, specific information about broadcasting comes to light, the article can be recreated. If the broadcasting network is identified, redirect the article to the page for the network... at least until there are definite broadcasting plans for the series. B.Wind 03:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep now that specifics have been mentioned below. B.Wind 06:09, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - this show is on NBC's schedule for this fall, scheduled for Mondays at 9pm. [44] It's definitely legit. MikeWazowski 05:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per above. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 11:14, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per MikeWazowski. —phh (^t/_c) 18:33, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Network TV show + Actors I have heard of = Notable RicDod 19:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep I've seen photoshoots for the show already and for the same reasons from above.Bluemoonnstars

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was merge/redirect to Furry fandom. --Ezeu 03:22, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Furry lifestyler

Please read this carefully. At first glance, this seems valid, but I assure you the topic matter of furries and furry fans is not my motivation for this nomination. I have a few, please react to these arguments in your votes:

1.Unverifiable-- (Wikipedia policy requires all articles be verifiable) Furries are very verifiable and notable, and they have their own description at several wikipedia pages, such as Furry fandom and others. I argue that any information on the term furry lifestyler is unverifiable: Zero hits on LexisNexis and Google News (news search engines with archives of two years) for "furry lifestyler" Zero hits on Jstor search

Now, there is a cited "source" that I could go into the rules about using self published articles, but it turns out I don't need to, because this essay on furry fandom does not use the term "furry lifestyle" or "furry lifestyler" once. How can it be a source for an article on the term if it doesn't use the term once?

I have called for and argued for verifiable sources on this page since this January.

2.Original Research- (Wikipedia policy requires that pages not be original research) No original research states "the only way to demonstrate that you are not doing original research is to cite reliable sources which provide information that is directly related to the topic of the article, and to adhere to what those sources say." Since are no sources, I don't think I need to argue this point too much. There is the self published essay, but it isn't "adhered to" since it's info is used to define a term it doesn't ever use, "furry lifestyler" or even "lifestyle." Use of published primary sources is okay, use of unpublished primary sources, forums or newsgroups before a reputable news agency has made light of them, is against policy. People who call themselves furry lifestylers have edited this page, however"policy prohibits expert editors from drawing on their personal and direct knowledge if such knowledge is unverifiable." And I believe I have established that this article is unverifiable.

3.Non-notable(which I know is a suggestion, not a policy for deletion)-- 366 hits on google for "furry lifestyler" in quotes. This page is, on close inspection, an attempt to describe and define posters to the furry lifestyler newsgroup. People on the talk page have described it as a sort of "everything else" newsgroup where furry fans did not discuss furry art, but other things. I can only speculate, since I have found no documentation or reliable definition of furry lifestylers. Whether or not it is a clearly defined term in real life that could have a coherent and true article written about it is questionable, but somewhat irrelevant since I believe I have proven such an article would be in violation of wikipedia policy on several points.Articles such as this are welcome at places like wikiinfo, but are put here because of the trust and popularity of wikipedia, which is of course based in the policies that are against this article. Lotusduck 15:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, 7620 Ghits.--Jusjih 15:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• From a glance at Furry fandom (which in itself is a completely justifiable article), it seems to me that there are too many separate and disparate furry-related articles as it is. I don't think furries are a wide enough phenomenon (outside of a very particular subculture) to justify so many articles. This article seems to tell us little that the Furry fandom article doesn't, with the added point that the phrase "furry lifestyler" itself doesn't, based on a Google search, appear to be in particularly popular use (and according to the article it's just a synonym for the far simpler, far more widely-used "furry"). Ergo, I can't see a reason for this particular article to exist, and would suggest merging any original and useful content (if there is any) into Furry fandom. I wouldn't even suggest a redirect, though, since the phrase just doesn't seem common enough. Seb Patrick 16:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Question is not a merge without a redirect a delete? If it isn't a redirect, it will either remain as it is or be deleted. It appears that all of the content is original research and unverifiable, so I am pressed to question what could be merged.Lotusduck 16:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep It seems to me that there's a fairly distinct difference between the fan covered in Furry fandom, who are those with an appreciation for furry (art, comics, etc) and the lifestylers covered in this article, who make furry into an everyday belief system and in some cases modify their bodies, etc. I feel that they're distinctive enough not to merge the two. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 17:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Do you have any comment as to the wikipedia policy violations I have outlined?Lotusduck 18:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand. What would you like me to comment on? Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 21:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Please note that this is not a merge proposal, and that is how your justification is formatted. Lotusduck 18:09, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletions. -- ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 18:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 18:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge to Furry fandom. The distinction isn't particularly clear, even within the fandom; the majority of furs would fall somewhere in between "furry fan" and "furry lifestyler". Zetawoof^(ζ) 20:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

It would be a good idea if it were possible. The content from furry lifestyler would be removed as unverifiable according to policy, would it not? You could try adding the extra content about totemistic beliefs etcetera to Furry fandom and see if I'm wrong. Lotusduck 20:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)