Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Democrat celebrities

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. See also prior AfD. ~ trialsanderrors 06:23, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Democrat celebrities

List of Democrat celebrities (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

This article has two inherent, uncorrectable problems.

  • First, the criteria used for determining what "endorsing the Democratic Party" or being a "Democrat celebrity" could be interpreted vaguely. This could encompass asking for votes for the Democratic Party, a number of Democratic candidates, or a single Democratic candidate in public or private, in either an official or unofficial capacity. This could be interpreted as including celebrities who have voted for Democrats (just once or consistently) or celebrities who have registered Democrat. This could include celebrities who have given money to the Democratic party. This could include a person who appeared on the Tonight Show in 1976 and told Johnny Carson that he or she was voting for Jimmy Carter. The possibilities are endless.
  • Similarly, the criteria used for determining what a "celebrity" is can be vague. This apparently includes actors, comedians, and writers, and it could include atheletes, TV chefs, journalists, businesspeople, and possibly even politicians (such as Bill Clinton). Quantifying the degree of fame that someone needs to appear on this list is impossible. Does a minor actor in a TV series count as a celebrity? What about a local comedian? A backup player on an NFL team? A pulp fiction writer? The owner of a national supermarket chain?

So, for these two reasons, the article and the list should be deleted. (I would also advocate deleting the Republican equivalent of this page, in case people wonder about my political leanings.) George J. Bendo 23:17, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete. Unsourced, vague, and subjective. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 03:08, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. Requires WP:NPOV violation to work; what defines a celebrity? 23skidoo 03:54, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. There's a third inherent problem -- the use of "Democrat" as an adjective is POV. [1]
  • Delete. Completely unsourced POV. Also, if I count correctly, there are seven celebrities on the list who can't be Democrats because they're citizens of countries that don't have a Democratic Party. (PS to the nominator: "Demoncrat"?) --Charlene 05:51, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep!. Change "Celebrity" to Public Figure and you end the discussion of who is or is not a celebrity. And it's so easy to source this article; we're all aware that "public figures" will do or say just about anything to get their name in the press. If you're upset about semantics, change "Democrat" to "left-wing" or some other word. Most of the people listed (George Clooney & Dave Matthews come to mind) wear the tag "liberal" like a badge of honor and call themselves such on frequent occasion. If celebrity influence on elections was of no matter we would have no Michael Moore, or Bono, or Madonna; and to a lesser degree no Ron Silver, no... uh... wait, I can't think of any other conservative celebrities of note. And as is said on the article's talk page, we have already solved the issue of exactly what Democrat Party we're talking about, and again, if there is ever any doubt, just source more freakin' celebrities. Matzoball1982 08:09, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment There is no List of Republican celebrities and there shouldn't be. "Republican" has various meanings in various parts of the world. In the Commonwealth a republican is one that advocates the dismantling of the monarchy; Cherie Booth, the wife of UK Labour Prime Minister Tony Blair, would be considered a republican celebrity, as would members of the left wing of the Bloc Quebecois. And again, dozens of countries have Republican parties. --Charlene 06:04, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Keep! Good to know who the good guys are. 10:34, 13 November 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.173.166.233 (talk • contribs).}
  • Delete. POV fork. AFAIK, all celebrities, esp. Hollywood celebrities, are Democrat liberal.--WaltCip 16:57, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Very strong Rename Why does every category or article with slight flaws have to end up in the scrap heap? There is a case for keeping this article and any equivalents in some form or other. Perhaps List of US Democrat celebrities would be better. To delete this entirely would be drastic. Moreover, any person with an article in their name on Wikipedia would have to be a reasonably well-known "celebrity" or they wouldn't have an article in their name. If there is sufficient evidence to suggest a person should be included in an article like this, then I see no reason why those names shouldn't stay. Delete the unsourced ones by all means! --Dovea 17:11, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete - use a category instead. I agree that it's interesting to know which celebrities endorse multiple Democratic candidates and contribute large sums of money to Democratic candidates and the party (as opposed to someone who endorsed his/her local candidate or even a candidate for the U.S. Senate), but this can be done with a category (Category:U.S. celebrities who endorse Democrats, for example). It's certainly verifiable, and limited in number. John Broughton | Talk 22:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment - The equivalent categories for the Republican and Democratic Parties (and several British parties) have been nominated for deletion. (I found the Wikipedia article through the category discussion.) George J. Bendo 02:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete Vauge criteria, what consitutes endorsement? Even if that could be solved, it should be a catagory, not an encyclopedia article as it is simply a list. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 00:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Maybe a renaming is in order instead, like Dovea said making it the List of US Democrat celebrities. Plus it would be quite easy for somebody that leans to the Republican and or conseravite side of issues to vote to delete it just for their own personal reasons. MrKing84 07:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment - Thanks for the blanket statement, MrKing.--WaltCip 21:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Comment - Ha, you know it's true. Oh yeah not all Hollywood celeberties are liberal, Ronald Reagan ring a bell. I bet's he's rolling over in his grave. MrKing84 08:56, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment - This proposed renaming still leaves open the problem of determining what is a celebrity. The only criteria proposed for determining whether someone is a celebrity (inclusion in Wikipedia) does not seem like a viable one. George J. Bendo 09:46, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Comment - the words "celeberty" and "star" are being given to every B-list movie actor and 70's sitcom star in the world now and days. Just look at VH1 reality shows and Dancing with the Stars. Their is no criteria for determining who is a celeberty.
  • New proposal - change the article name to List of people who have endorsed the US Democratic Party. All the names in the list would need to be cited. That would put paid to the word celebrity and yet not tear the article to shreds. Any thoughts? Dovea 19:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment - This does remove the issue of "celebrity" from the article, but it still leaves open what the term "endorse" means. Does it mean endorsing the whole party, individual candidates from the party, or issues that are generally supported by the Democratic Party? Does donating money or appearing at a Democratic Party event in either an official or unofficial capacity qualify as "endorsement"? Does membership qualify as "endorsement"? If politicians from the Democratic Party campaign for each other, does that qualify as "endorsement"? This problem is still unsolved. George J. Bendo 19:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Perhaps I'm crazy, but I don't see that the instant page might significantly be differentiated from List of celebrities with links to the U.S. Democratic Party, which, with its Republican and Libertarian counterparts, was AfDed in late July, such that the present article might well have merited G4 (irrespective of the July AfD, I'd surely support deletion here in view of the sundry fine arguments advanced supra, but I suppose I mean in specific to ask those who support keeping whether they think there to have been some deficiency in the arguments advanced either there or at this AfD or, in the absence of such deficiency, how the present article might be understood as better to address those arguments than did the deleted article). Joe 06:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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