Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Christian rappers

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. --Fang Aili ^說嗎? 15:51, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Christian rappers

unverified listcruft; 95% of these rappers are nn and don't have their own wikipedia articles. There should be a Category:Christian rappers instead. --M@rēino 16:37, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Agree. This should be a general policy on bands; no lists, just categories. Yesterday I had to move a band article and had to update List of Australian hardcore punk groups, List of punk bands, List of hardcore punk bands, and List of Australian musicians. That's what database engines are for. --John Nagle 16:43, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete all lists of non-notable bands. I disagree with you though Nagle, lists of notable things like List of rappers should be kept.--Urthogie 18:16, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as a random list which mainly just contains external links, if anything at all. Category:Christian rappers sounds like a good idea. -- Mithent 18:33, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Category:Christian rappers would include 90 percent of rappers.--Urthogie 19:46, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I find that unlikely. Many prominent rappers are Muslims or associated with the Nation of Islam or The Nation of Gods and Earths (the latter being an offshoot of the Nation of Islam, but not necessarily considering itself an Islamic group). See Category:Five Percenters. (Presumably there are others who do not publicly associate themselves with any organized religion.) Delete List of Christian rappers and replace it with a category per nomination, since many of the listed rappers do not have articles of their own on Wikipedia. --Metropolitan90 03:10, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

The majority of rappers are christian. The 5 percenters are called 5 percenters for a reason.--Urthogie 07:03, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

• Comment I strongly disagree with suggestions that lists should be replaced by categories. According to Wikipedia's own guidelines both are valid and both can happily sit side by side. Jcuk 21:22, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above. I also note that this particular name is hopelessly POV: it aims not to list rappers who belong to any Christian religion, but to rappers whose particular brand of Christianity meets the approval of the list-maker. Bucketsofg 21:47, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete and move to a list. I put a lot of work into this article, but all the same, it may need to go. A list of underground Christian rappers and hip-hop groups may be a good idea, or would that count as listcruft? Any thoughts? ^{|phantasy phanatik|talk|contribs|}

That's what it already is.--Urthogie 08:30, 24 April 2006 (UTC)--

True, true. ^{|phantasy phanatik|talk|contribs|}

• Do not Delete. The history is a lot deeper here than what has been described and several of the bands on the list play a key role in the history of Christian Rap. It would benefit history to gather that in one place and would best be served by giving the major bands a good and fair description in this section. I don't have the time to work on this right now, but I'm trying to motivate a couple people to do some work in order to put a little bit of effort into this page so that it will be more than just links to web pages. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.5.84.181 (talk • contribs).

We already have an article on the history of Christian rap. We're debating if we need a list of non-notables.--Urthogie 11:45, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: I did not nominate this as part of some campaign to delete all lists. I just think that this list is irreparably overrun with non-notables, and that a category and a few added lines in Christian hip hop would replace what little unique and useful content this page may currently provide. --M@rēino 15:04, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
  • I have now added all of the rappers in the list to the proposed cat.--M@rēino 15:15, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Looks good, but I see youre putting groups in it. Please create a seperate category for christian hip hop groups, as is the convention. thanks, --Urthogie 16:02, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Or maybe I should change the title so that both groups and individuals can be in the same category? I'm not sure what the best approach is.--M@rēino 17:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I've been categorizing hip hop stuff for a long while now. What we do for musicians is we have a Category:Christian hip hop musicians (i've created for you), which has groups and rappers categories inside it. Christian DJ's and producers and instrumentalists would go directly in [[:Category:Christian hip hop musicians. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Urthogie (talk • contribs).

• Delete, per nom. This looks like it is trying to be a list of external links, which WP:NOT. ergot 00:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. It has been noted that lists and categories of the same thing may coexist. Well, what if we remade the article as "List of Christian hip hop artists by genre"? I know it sounds like listcruft, but it would essentially be the same thing, but it would kill two birds with one stone. Even if it is listcruft, its article is an essay, and I get the idea that if very specific lists would benefit the wiki, that it wouldn't be undesirable. I know I say this a lot, but, any thoughts? ^{|phantasy phanatik|talk|contribs|}
• Keep and fix! Just because an article needs work doesn't mean it should be deleted. Christian hip-hop is a legitimate genre of music so why not have a list of Christian rappers, including a few who may not have articles yet? We have List of alternative rock CCM artists, List of hard rock CCM artists, and List of punk CCM artists. This would be a nice complement to those lists. GT 08:02, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:LC. It's a POV list of external links, and stuff. Stifle (talk) 16:14, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
  • So why not fix it? Why can't a valid page exist at List of Christian rappers just because the current incarnation might not be? GT 22:10, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
    • IMHO, b/c Christian hip hop is the better place for informing readers about the artists and the new cats are the better place for people who just want links. But then again, I'm the nominator, so maybe I'm biased. --M@rēino 23:45, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
      • Okay but until such a point that lists are eliminated across the board in favor of categories, why not have both? I'm not aware of any such consensus decision to eliminate lists. GT 02:28, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.