Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Catholic scientists

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. - Mailer Diablo 00:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of Catholic scientists

This nomination is part of an effort to whittle down the Lists of professionals that observe a certain religion.

Delete as the faith of none of those people had an influence on their chosen profession.

Do not categorize members of the lists as Catholic unless they are prominent as followers of Catholicism. Pilatus 00:23, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

• Keep — The nomination criteria fails to specify how this meets the criteria for not being suitably encyclopedic. On the contrary I think this is a perfectly valid list, although it could be done just as well be managed with a category. — RJH 01:04, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. This is what categories are for. See my longish comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Roman Catholics (2nd nomination). In brief: the quality of these lists is too low for them to be useful. It doesn't say how they were made or what the criteria for inclusion are, and no sources are given, so cleanup is practically impossible. In many case our own articles do not confirm inclusion. For example, our article on Alexander Fleming says nothing about his religious affiliations. This should be moved to List of scientists who some Wikipedians are pretty sure they've read were some kind of Catholic at some time in their lives, but don't remember where and can't be bothered to check, then deleted. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:56, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Among the headings on what Wikipedia is not: Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics Durova 02:38, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:NOT Nandesuka 05:19, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above. 23skidoo 05:21, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination and Dpbsmith. --Metropolitan90 06:12, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination and Dpbsmith.. Edwardian 06:40, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Dpbsmith. His excellently reasoned, well-illustrated and compelling arguments should definitely be read and editors should consider weighing in on that discussion, as well as any additional lists that Pilatus is helpfully bringing to AfD. Dottore So 07:52, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete: First, it's impossible as a list, as all Western scientists prior to Henry VIII were "Catholic," and scientists don't have to declare their affiliation when they get their special Science Card and secret handshake in graduate school. Secondly, it's bizarre and inappropriate to have lists of people by ethnicity and religion. While this list of Catholics might be designed as an RCC boast, others, such as "Jewish TV stars," are designed as boycott and hit lists. Geogre 11:05, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

  Comment - what the heck country are you living in? >:\ People troll wikipedia for lists of celebrities to kill? Egad! Sherurcij 12:52, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

  Comment-I'm moving the names to the new List of avowed Christians in science. So my vote returns to delete, but make this a redirect.--T. Anthony 00:50, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per Dpbsmith and Geogre. And my Arrogant Physicist Society card certainly doesn't list my religious domination, just my name, APS number and the Trystero symbol. Anville 11:08, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete for above reasons. --Merovingian 13:23, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete ditto. — Haeleth Talk 13:49, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Because of redundancy as the List of Christian scientists already has pretty much all these names. Also separating sends a bad message vis a vis Catholics not being Christians.--T. Anthony 16:02, 17 November 2005 (UTC
• Delete Hard to maintain as a list. Loosely related individuals.
• Delete per nomination. Jtmichcock 22:48, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination. Ejrrjs | [[User talk:Ejrrjs|What?]] 07:17, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:NOT and above. --Locke Cole ^{(talk) (e-mail)} 07:30, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, someone's religion will definitely have an impact on their scientific views. One of the few lists of this type where religion and occupation can be related. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:09, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Really? definitely? In all cases? What's your evidence for that assertion? --Doc ^ask? 09:31, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

If someone's religion always has an impact on their science, then it should always be possible to find and cite evidence for that impact, and any designation of someone as a "Catholic scientist" should be based on that evidence, not on the fact that someone happens to be a Catholic and also to be a scientist. However, scientific journals do not customarily require authors to disclose their religious affiliations, suggesting that the scientific community does not regard religious affliation as affecting scientific views. Dpbsmith (talk) 13:46, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

• Keep MacGyverMagic has it right. JBH 22:17, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Note:This vote was JBH's 5th edit (first edit November 18, 2005). Almost all other edits are in support of lists that were nominated for deletion--Bob ^talk 15:14, November 18, 2005 (UTC)

I made some alterations, check them out!--T. Anthony 06:45, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

• Delete I love lists, but this is really an almost arbitrary association. Why not List of blond-haired scientists or List of left-handed scientists or List of scientists who used to be waiters? Surely their skill at handling large amounts of glassware makes them better scientists. Turnstep 02:33, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Interesting. I've noticed how many of you seem to think being of a religion has no more effect on peoples' lives or careers then riding a unicycle or having blond hair. Which is odd. I don't recall a period where scientists were refused entry to certain schools or garnered praised by millions even partly for their hair color. Look at some on the Catholic list and it's probable you will find people refused from Oxford for their religion. You think that had no effect on their science career? You really think there is no more interest in Christians or Catholics in science then there'd be for the former waiter idea?--T. Anthony 04:38, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

To elaborate. Going by Google "Catholic Scientist" gets 12,300 hits.[1] "Blond scientist" gets less then 600.[2]. Now "waiter scientist" gets 1200.[3] That's still just a tenth of what Catholic got. "Iranian scientist", and there is a List of Iranian scientists gets 10,500.[4]. I'm not sure Google is indicative of much but this should in least show this topic has more interest on the Net then even one acceptable scientists list. As for "Christians in science"? 13100 hits.[5]--T. Anthony 05:18, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per everything above. 65.10.44.158 22:57, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.