Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kinston Indians

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete all. Proto///type 15:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jordan Brown (Sports Person), Brian Barton, Armando Camacaro, Rodney Choy Foo, Jose Constanza, Christopher Hicks, Scott Roehl Reid Santos

Are we lowering the bar of notability to include people who have only ever played in minor league baseball? I would hope not. I have no problem with keeping the Category:Kinston Indians players, since it can be used to associate with major league players who have played for the team. User:Zoe|^(talk) 16:10, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Meets WP:BIO. Golfcam 17:33, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
  • What section of WP:BIO do these meet? User:Zoe|^(talk) 18:38, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Technically, they "have played in a fully professional league", though I think that standard needs to be tweaked a bit for this sort of sport, with multiple professional levels, where only a very small percentage ever see the highest level. Fan1967 18:41, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all as non-notable. -- Kjkolb 17:59, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all. I know a few former minor league ball players; there are thousands of them at any time. If you didn't make it to the majors, you're not notable, Class A players least notable of all. Fan1967 18:30, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Actually, class A isn't the lowest you can go in major league baseball anymore. --badlydrawnjeff talk 10:49, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all There are hundreds upon hundreds of minor league baseball teams, and we don't need 10,000 (that's not really an exaggeration) articles on guys who have never played in the majors. -- Kicking222 22:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
  • And how does that hurt Wikipedia if we did? --badlydrawnjeff talk 10:49, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all per nom. BlueValour 22:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
• No Vote for now, untill research may be done on each of the players whether one or all players have at least played 1 game in the major league, it's a pain that 1 game in the majors is the minimum, but its the requirements. --Arnzy ^{(whats up?)} 00:02, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment As of the end of the 2005 season (last year I can find stats for minor leagues), Camacaro, Foo and Roehl had only been as high as Akron (AA); none of the rest had gotten past A. None have any major league statistics this year. Fan1967 02:02, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete all. There'd have to be more than just "plays in the minor leagues" for a minor league player to be notable. Wait 'til they get to the majors. BryanG^(talk) 04:22, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep all, they're professional ballplayers and meet WP:BIO for the moment. --badlydrawnjeff talk 22:42, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm not surprised Badlydrawnjeff would vote keep, since it's his usual modus on AfD. But for others, would you care to contribute at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(people)#Minor_league_baseball_players? User:Zoe|^(talk) 23:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
    • You certainly don't have to act like that about it. I don't vote keep on everything that comes through AfD, and rarely do I vote keep out of process. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all. There is a question of precedent here. If these articles survive then every non-league professional footballer in Europe can have an article - and there are tens of thousands of them - a policy decision needs to be made that goes wider than baseball. TerriersFan 23:39, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

• If I understand the European football system at all, this is a very similar situation. This is the lowest level of professional baseball, likewise with tens of thousands of players, of whom the vast majority will never advance. Fan1967 02:21, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

• It is a very similar situation - non-league European football has many, many thousands of players just starting out in the professional game. BlueValour 03:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

• In actuality, there are no binding precedents. --badlydrawnjeff talk 02:31, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

• If these are kept, a precedent would be created, though not a binding one. It would be a dreadful precedent to have. Do you really want 50,000 articles on 20-year-old kids trying to make it in baseball, with another 20,000 added every year? Fan1967 02:37, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

• Actually, if there was that sort of ambition for it, yes. But it's completely unrealistic to expect that it would happen. --badlydrawnjeff talk 02:44, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

• At the moment footballers, world-wide, are only included if they play for their major national league. If minor league baseball players are included there will be a huge demand for extra footballers. BlueValour 03:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
• But we could easily get hundreds of them, as local fans of minor league teams put their team members in, or family members of kids who just started playing create bios for them. I'll repeat, really bad precedent. Fan1967 13:40, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

So? --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:25, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete all. The mere act of getting an occasional paycheck doesn't confer notability, importance, or impact on the world at large -- not even The Baseball Encyclopedia lists these guys. Unless they get some ACTUAL signs of notability, such as non-trivial media ("So-and-so hit two doubles Tuesday night" in a game report in the back of the Kinston Free Press doesn't count) or, at the very least, getting at least a cup of coffee in the majors, these don't come even CLOSE to meeting WP:BIO. --Calton | Talk 04:24, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Actually, they easily pass WP:BIO. You're incorrect. --badlydrawnjeff talk 10:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all as not notable. The Kingston Indians are an A League team (= 4th division, or a reserve league, a category for which players of football are included only in exceptional circumstances, i.e. international appearances) whose players are not notable by virtue of playing there, and none of the articles make any notability claims for the subjects beyond the fact of playing for the Kingston Indians. Angus McLellan (Talk) 10:47, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep all These players pass WP:BIO. Class A is NOT the lowest level of pro ball. No, none of the players have played in MLB but three have played in AA ball as recent as several days ago. Wikipedia should not be limited. Also, on the Kinston Indians page, the current roster is filled with nearly all red names suggesting a page needs to be made for each player. Finally, why are other A players allowed to have articles (e.g. the Koby Clemens article i just visited recently)? Not only does he appear to have limited potential, he is currently a bit out of his element in A ball right now.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nick22aku (talk • contribs).

• Comment "This article should stay because that other article exists" is never a valid argument, especially if the other article has never been nominated for deletion. Many articles exist simply because they haven't been questioned. Fan1967 18:12, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. The red names don't suggest more pages, to me they suggest a bunch of non-entities. BlueValour 19:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. To me, black names on the first reference suggest non-entities.

• Delete all. AA and under ballplayers are inherently not notable; AAA only in special circumstances. BoojiBoy 23:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all Per nom.--Auger Martel 08:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep since this would clearly interest fans of the team. An alternative would be to merge into a single team roster article. --JJay 12:32, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

• Current roster is in the team article at Kinston Indians. Fan1967 13:20, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
• I'm aware of that, but I think you know what I meant. Player bios are important and should be maintained. --JJay 14:59, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. Also, just to make clear, Kinston is the highest level of A baseball in the Cleveland Indians org. It's not as if the players in question are from shortened season A ball or other lower A class teams (eg Lake County Captains or Mahoning Valley Scrappers) User:Nick22aku

• Strong delete all. There does need to be a cutoff. Up to now it has been having played major league. If these are to be allowed then anyone who has played as a pro for any sport would have to be allowed in; probably hundreds of thousands. The other question is what is notable about them? There seems to be nothing to assert notability. TerriersFan 18:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Technically, up to now, it has been "professional." What's notable about them? They play for a major league affiliate that has thousands of fans, and are known by fans and baseball nuts alike. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:22, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all nn baseball players, see my comments on the WP:BIO talk page regarding them Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 06:46, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep All meet WP:BIO. Although, I do agree that there may need to be some tweaking of the guidelines for this sort of situation. Technically a person who has played an inning in a rookie league would be notable. I'm not sure that's a great thing. ScottW 14:46, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.