Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kingdom of Calontir

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was KEEP since it's been comprehensively rewritten during the AfD.[1]. There seems only to have been one revisitation by the earlier editors so deleting this would only result in a relisting at DRV. -Splash^talk 22:03, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kingdom of Calontir

This is a "kingdom" in the Society for Creative Anachronism. I notice none of the other "kingdoms" have their own wiki pages, and SCA has its own Wiki. I can't find a specific part of WP:Notability that this violates but I think it does in spirit; also WP:V. Thatcher131 05:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

The article has now been completely rewritten and I would request that the closing admin take that into account. - AdelaMae ^{(talk - contribs)} 07:23, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Royboycrashfan 05:24, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep/Cleanup. Very week keep/expand Keep as improved. Contrary to nominator's statement, I see that the "kingdom" of the Outlands also has its own wiki page, but that page is much better than this one. I think that the problem here is not so much of notability and verifiability (these folks are nothing if not verifiable) as it is that the planned & linked content in the article isn't particularly encyclopedic. Worse yet, there are a number of other articles linked here such as Hirth of Calontir and Iren-Feran that absolutely do not warrent individual Wikipedia articles even if they arguably would belong in this one. Is it likely this is a copyvio from some SCA Wiki? Crypticfirefly 06:04, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I stand corrected regarding the Outlands kingdom pages. I also agree that the sub-topics do not warrant individual articles; most of them were prodded by another editor. Thatcher131 06:10, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I didn't mean to say that you were being remiss, only that the article has little content. Crypticfirefly 06:32, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry, I didn't take offense. Thatcher131 06:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Delete (as nothing to merge). Does not warrant an article of its own. Average Earthman 06:29, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom.--み使い Mitsukai 13:59, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

• Delete -- SCAcruft. Belongs somewhere, but not on Wikipedia. Haikupoet 03:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
• Work In Progress: As the Deputy Kingdom Chatelain, one of my duties is to try and build an online resource that newcomer's can go to for information about the Kingdom of Calontir. Unfortunately, I'm the only one working on this project and this will be a work in progress for quite some time...unless I can get the Kingdom Webminister to spend some time on this as well. As for the award pages that people are commenting as "not being necessary"...there is discussion currently taking place if it would be beneficial include a list of past recipients or not (SCA names only of course). If this project is deemed unacceptable by Wikipedia, then by all means delete the pages. User:Giudo

I suggest you compare your project with the page for Kingdom of the Outlands. The Outlands page basically says, we're a club, here's a bit of our history, here are links to our activities and websites. Wikipedia is a not a free web host and it is not a substitute for your own web site. Also, the indivdual articles on awards and other internal kingdom business really do fall below Wikipedia's notability guidelines, and are written in a very silly way, as if they are things in the real world. I suggest you rework the main article in your user space WP:USER and then recreate it here when it's done. To keep it from being speedily deleted, note on the new article's talk page that it is not a recreation of a deleted article but a substantial rewrite. Thanks for contributing. It does take a couple of tries to get the hang of it. Don't give up. Thatcher131 14:55, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

• Merge all the sub-articles into the main article, and delete them. Keep the main page. DJ Clayworth 17:48, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, per nom. --Neigel von Teighen 17:50, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete local chapters of most groups (SCA included) are not notable. Carlossuarez46 21:18, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. "Kingdoms" in the SCA aren't really "local chapters" in the way you're thinking of them; the Kingdom of Calontir encompasses about 40 local SCA groups in five states. I can't find membership details for the kingdom as a whole, but the local groups I'm familiar with have numbered at least 50-100 people so that would put it at 2000-4000 members. The kingdom listserv received 896 messages last month [2] from 173 distinct people [3]. Each SCA kingdom has its own history, customs, events, royalty, traditions, and awards, as distinct from the SCA as a whole. Calontir also hosts the Lilies War every year, a camping event that lasts over a week and draws about a thousand people [4]. Whether you think the SCA is goofy or not, I think that a group of this size ought to have a Wikipedia entry. - AdelaMae ^{(talk - contribs)} 07:49, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you and Guido can collaborate on a rewrite. That info is very much along the lines of a real encyclopedia entry but was not included in the original entry, nor based on the outline would it be. Nearly all of the Kingdom info (traditions, awards, customs, etc) should be on its own web site, which it already has. The Wikipedia entry should say when you were founded, what area, how many local chapters, describe the most notable events (like the Lillies war) and then direct users to other sites for detailed information. See the Kingdom of the Outlands for what I think is a better example.Thatcher131 17:23, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Article has been partially rewritten. It is much more Wikippropriate now, and hopefully comprehensible to non-SCAdians. - AdelaMae ^{(talk - contribs)} 19:15, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

• Keep 297,000 Google hits shows that subject is indeed notable, and the alleged verifiability isues are easily remedied. The SCA is an extremely notable sub-culture. Other than some neologisms which the average reader may not understand, I see absolutely no justification for this article to be deleted. WeniWidiWiki 07:39, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.