Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kiddush club (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Mailer Diablo 15:57, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kiddush club

Question: Why wasn't the original contributor informed of this vote? It's now on his talk page, see User talk:Nathanm777. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by IZAK (talk • contribs).

• I am not taking a position yet as to whether this article should stay or go, but if it stays it should be moved to Kiddush club since it is not a formal organization. --Metropolitan90 08:44, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and expand, it is a definite widely known activity, so much so that it merits its own mention on the Orthodox Union's website (they're against it), see the external link on the article. IZAK 11:36, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep as per IZAK (and Jayjg who voted only once to keep them all). More I think this vote is some kind of misuse of wikiprodedure to prevent debate where they have to take place. Alithien 12:10, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Strong keep and move what on earth?? why is this back on AfD after two days? "Kiddush club" is a real phenomenon and social issue. It may be kinda minor, but then we're not paper. What's the nomination to deletion here, anyway? - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 12:13, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge with kiddush. Fringe phenomenon, notability not established. JFW | T@lk 14:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep as per IZAK. It is only vaguely related to kiddush and is much more a social phenomenon than a religious one, analagous to a "coffee klatch" -- Avi 15:00, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, and absolutely DO NOT merge with kiddush. --DLand^TALK 15:08, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Good article and has at least one link. Massive room for expansion. -- JJay 18:12, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• keep it's a real phenomenon and it's worth noting. Moving to "Kiddush club," however, would make sense. If you merge it with anything, do NOT merge it with kiddush because the kiddush club has nothing to do with kiddush. Avraham 19:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

comment I'll concede that it seems like a very small niche field, but it is an important issue. If anyone could think of a reasonable place to put it, such as in the Yeridat HaDorot article, or the Alcoholism among orthodox Jews article, I'd change my vote to a merge. As it is, however, I see no appropriate place for it other than where it is now. I don't think we should worry too much about it since Wikipedia is not paper. The biggest issue ought to be "is the content stupid and irrelevant," and I htink the answer to taht is definitely no. Avraham 15:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps this could be merged with coffee break, and mentioned there as loose a cultural equivalent? HKT 16:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. Notable phenomenon. Jayjg ^(talk) 20:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge with kiddush. Delete. This is a slang term and a neologism, though the activity described is prevalent. I am uncertain whether this violates WP:NEO. Personally, I was taken aback when I saw that this had become an article. If "kiddush clubs" are notable, maybe we should have an article about the practice of children playing ball outside of the synagogue on Shabbat, and which Jewish organizations criticize this. I don't think that this meets Wikipedia's notability standards. HKT 22:11, 22 May 2006 (UTC) On second thought, changing my vote to delete. I don't think the content is sufficiently encyclopedic for its own stub, and it doesn't really have a place in the kiddush article. HKT 22:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: First of all, a term is only considered a neologism if it has only recently created. The term "Kiddush club" has been around for a considerably long time, and more significantly, it has been accepted into the lexicon of contemporary Orthodox Judaism. Secondly, it is certainly encyclopedic, being an important and notable cultural phenomenon among synagogue-going American Jews. --DLand^TALK 03:53, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
    • "Kiddush clubs" are simply a shtick used by some people to leave the synagogue earlier, eat earlier, consume liquor, and socialize with friends. This term has not even spread to all or most communities. It is hard for me to appreciate what cultural significance this might have, though I understand why this practice was criticized by the OU. HKT 16:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge with kiddush Delete as per HKT. Ted 22:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Widespread and well known cultural phenomenon. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 14:58, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
• Strong keep. Notable enough for the OU to take a stance, notable enough to keep. --Yodamace1 16:07, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
  • If commentary by the OU is sufficient to establish notability, perhaps we should compose an article about talking during prayers in synagogue and driving to synagogue on Shabbat (both of which have at least as much cultural significance as "kiddush clubs"). HKT 16:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete mostly as per HKT. This is an encyclopedia, not a almanac of religious (or non-religious) customs. At most, merge with something else. --Shuki 20:33, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: Indeed, this is an encyclopedia, and an encyclopedia should have encyclopedic articles about notable cultural phenomena - like this. If you think articles of this sort belong in an almanac, I suggest you find out what an almanac actually is first. --DLand^TALK 04:45, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Merger doesn't make sense. It has little to do with Kiddush really. It is a label for social phemomena that has broader significance. --Metzenberg 12:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
• keep please merger does not make sense either Yuckfoo 19:19, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.