Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KIPP: Lead College Prep Charter School

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 11:17, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] KIPP: Lead College Prep Charter School

Articles Brad Wilson and BradsDeals have just been nominated for deletion. The largest part of this school article was about Brad Wilson. Following the deletions, the article has been edited to remove him. However, I have serious doubts that this school actually exists for these reasons: (1) The article itself has practically no information, not what one would expect from such a high octane institution. (2) The school's own website has clearly not been updated for many months (i.e. since before it was supposed to have opened last July). (3) The school's calendar on the website is empty. (4) The press article cited actually links to the school's website where it is presented as a PDF file, and (5) the articel itself only mentions TWO potential students. (6) And that article itself is from March 2006. Perhaps there is someone who has some local knowledge who could help with this. Emeraude 16:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

• It's a party to this contract and it has a directory entry. I cannot find enough sources to warrant breaking this article out of Gary Charter Schools. Uncle G 16:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Is the school real? It's included on the list of Indiana charter schools (which refers to the school as KIPP Lead Academy of Gary) and on the Kipp Schools web site, (referd to as KIPP LEAD College Prep Charter School ). Kipp is a major national manager of nearly fifty charter schools. The Welcome to KIPP LEAD College Prep Charter School page describes the unique program, and provides links to relevant, non-trivial independent reporting on the school. The article needs to be expanded, but can stand on its own, independently of the local charter schools. Alansohn 17:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment That Kipp is a "major national manager of nearly fifty charter schools" is an argument for having an article about Kipp not an article about this specific school. As for the "relevant, non-trivial independent reporting" do you have any that isn't minor puff pieces of the sort one always gets at schools and is not associated with Ball State? JoshuaZ 18:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Agreed. Let's worry about having a good KIPP article before we worry about an article for the eighteenth charter school in Indiana. Delete —ptk✰fgs 18:54, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Comment Your justification for delete is meaningless. The question here is whether this article meets Wikipedia standards for retention, not what you think of some other article. Which specific Wikipedia policy does this article not meet? Alansohn 19:01, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
        • There aren't the sources to show that the primary WP:SCHOOL criterion is satisfied. If you wish to argue otherwise, please cite some sources. I couldn't find any. Editors who have no sources to cite, or who are unwilling to cite sources to support their arguments, may want to consider carefully what thin ice that places them upon when it comes to the subject of policies. Please cite sources. Uncle G 21:02, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
        • It does not meet WP:N. It's just another school. WP:SCHOOL is millions of miles away from consensus or coherence so we don't really need to entertain it here. —ptk✰fgs 21:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Fails WP:V even before we get to the matter that the school is in no way shape or form notable. JoshuaZ 21:18, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment It's nice to throw around a reference to WP:V, a step forward from some of the more meaningless delete votes. Only question, is what part of WP:V does it fail? I see several sources included in the article, all of which can be easily verified with a click. Read the article and specify what part of WP:V the included sources do not meet. Alansohn 23:28, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
• Some interesting discussion points, but to go back to my original nomination - I simply want someone to verify that the school actually EXISTS. Its website suggests not, based on currency. Nowhere else that I have looked says that it is open (the KIPP directory merely says new in 2006, not that it opened). The quality of the KIPP programme is irrelevant (as a teacher, I personally have my doubts). I suspect this school was planned but never opened. SO again I ask, in hope, is there anyone in the area who can verify this one way or the other; if not Delete as non-existent. Emeraude 22:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
  • See this link for an article about the school now that is has opened for the 2006-07 school year, dated July 16, 2006, after school had opened with 81 students. Please let us know if there are any other issues you have that need to be addressed regarding this AfD. Alansohn 23:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. I added links from Ball State University and the Indiana Department of Education that appear to confirm that the school exists. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 02:36, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. Proving that the school exists or not would require original research, probably (and most reliably) a phone call to the Office of Charter Schools of Ball State University at 765-285-1336 or to the Indiana Department of Education. I can argue that, based on the evidence in the article, and based on the fact that I haven't seen any evidence that the school closed down or failed to open, it is more likely than not that the school exists. The school's web site being out-of-date is most likely just another case of "brochureware", where the site is created by a designer, uploaded to a hosting provider, and then neglected, in part because the organization that commissioned the site doesn't have access to the editing software or doesn't know how to use it. But Emeraude's suspicions could be correct. I would encourage someone to make a phone call or a visit to answer the question, and then the evidence can be reinterpreted in the light of the results of the phone call or visit. I think there are enough people who dislike charter schools and Ball State University's involvement with them that a crash-and-burn of any of Gary, Indiana's charter schools would be widely reported. That having been said, I think that a charter school that closes down because of mismanagement, fraud or politics ought to be written about so as to provide a better understanding of what can go wrong with charter schools in general. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 03:41, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
  • As always, thanks TruthbringerToronto for your improvements to the article. See this link for an article (already included as a reference in the article) about the school now that is has opened for the 2006-07 school year, dated July 16, 2006, after school had opened with 81 students in its initial class. Alansohn 03:54, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Charter school with a nominal amount of press coverage, thus meeting proposed WP:SCHOOLS and relevant verifiability policies. Yamaguchi先生 07:13, 1 November 2006
• keep. Deletion is not cleanup. Unfocused 17:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
• keep this is a good article for a school!! Audiobooks 21:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC) [removed spa comment]
  • Comment Again being a "good article" (whatever that means) is not a reason to keep and adding exclamation points doesn't help matters. JoshuaZ 21:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Just as verifiability is the standard for inclusion, not some warped standard of notability. Audiobooks no longer appears to be a "single purpose account" so I am going to begin removing these SPA tags shortly and assume good faith. Silensor 00:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per the improvements made by TT, meets the bastardised WP:SCHOOLS proposal. Silensor 00:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
• keep this is a good article for a school!!!!!! (i.e. passes WP:V and my standards for notability!!!). --JJay 22:00, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep All schools are inherently notable -- Librarianofages 22:38, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per TruthbringerToronto.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 07:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.