Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Indult Catholic

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete. AfD is not really needed for a merge... just merge it back. If the term shouldn't exist as a redirect, see WP:RFD. W.marsh 14:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indult Catholic

• delete and merge PoV Fork, they are completely the same as traditionalist Catholics, except that some trad groups claim they are not traditionalist. Merge back into article, but most of this is a dupe of TC. Dominick ^(TALK) 23:48, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Please correct me if I am wrong but this seems very different from Traditionalist Catholics (TC). Indults have been granted an "indulgence" by the Holy See to practice the Mass in Latin, a "Church-approved" Latin version. TC disputes the wisdom of the modernization reforms of the Second Vatican Council. Indults have to specifically distinquish themselves from TC to receive this indulgence. They seem very different to me and certainly sufficiently different to have a separate article. --Justanother 19:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
  • The issue is they are no less traditionalist, if all the practices of the Catholics of this stripe do not differ from other Catholics.Dominick ^(TALK) 21:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
    • I am not that familiar and am basing my opinion on my read of the articles. It seems to have to do with traditional vs. Traditional (AKA traditionalist) with Indults being traditional. I am not sure that the distinction is well delineated in the TC article so I lean toward a separate article for Indults IF there is some cohesion of them; i.e. would a specific church be Indult? or would a church have modern and Indult services at different times? I guess that IF the TC article is better developed to distinquish between tC and TC (e.g. SSPX) AND Indults do not have a separate identity apart from tC then I would support merge. Am I making sense? --Justanother 05:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep All Indult Catholics are traditionalists, but not all Traditionalists are Indult Catholics. The indultists are more than simply traditionalists because they somehow manage to keep in full communion with Rome as well as having access to the Pre Vatican II sacraments. It is a large movement taking in the FSSP, Una Voce, the Institute of the Good Shepherd, Latin Mass Society, etc, etc. It's not far off an ill advised attempt to state that SSPX were sedevacantist because they were saying rude things about the Pope. JASpencer 19:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Are you saying that the Indult movement is not far off a movement to catagorize SSPX as sedevacantist? --Justanother 19:31, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
    • No. Few indultists would say that the SSPX is close to sedevacantism. JASpencer 14:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
  • "Indult" Catholics are a group of traditionalists that some radical traditionalists are trying to cut off. CLassic POV fork. Dominick ^(TALK) 13:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
    • I started the article and I attend an NO Mass (although I sometimes go to indult Masses). I certainly did not fork the article for the reason you're insinuating. I would like to point you to WP:AGF and WP:POINT. JASpencer 14:35, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
      • I apologize if it is taken as an insult. It was not meant that way. Catholics who attend an indult are not less traditional that the other groups in the main article. Dominick ^(TALK) 15:54, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.