Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/HaMaayan

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete--Ezeu 01:36, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HaMaayan

This organisation is real but probably very small. See Google UK [1] and also [2] Article may be mockery of the "local Jewish family [who] act as the public face of HaMaayan" and/or the ambitions of the organisation. (I gave this a category without reading it carefully - newly-added joke tag makes me see my mistake.) HJMG 11:36, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as non-notable - and partly hoax --HJMG 12:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• Question what makes you think this is a hoax? Why is there a joke template on the page?- CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 20:02, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

This article has a history of IP addresses adding and removing NPOV, joke and deletion notices. (Please note - I didn't put on the joke tag - but it made me read the article more carefully than I had before.)

Some editing has come from a Cambridge University IP, including an edit summary saying, "remove - it's a spoof page, as demonstrated by the bizarre humour and mockery behind its composition". The charity appears to be led by one particular couple. Their advertising for a nanny probably led to these remarks being added:"HaMaayan also employs a nanny who is responsible for the needs of HaMaayan's under-5 population." ......liberating women from having to endure pregnancy, is theologically important for HaMaayan." I guess this is a private joke: HaMaayan prides itself as one of the most litigious organisations in the UK. In general, it seems to poke fun at the charity's stated aims, which seem surprisingly ambitious for the Cambridge area: "It is believed that if several thousand Jews can be persuaded to buy properties in Cambridge, and several hundred thousand pounds can be raised then the project could be extremely viable." "There is also a proposal to build a Talmud Torah and an eruv in nearby Newmarket which, after extensive market research is believed to be a location which many Jews may be interested in moving to." (Also, I couldn't find any reference to HaMaayan on Lexis-Nexis UK)--HJMG 21:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

• I would urge a little bit of caution before rushing to delete this page - there are two google references to the organisation as cited above (one from the cambridge evening news which is a proper newspaper)and I tried the links at the bottom of the page and they worked, one being to the website of the charity commission, which is a government site. It could be that someone has added a joke into the article at our expense (that's not exactly infrequent here!) but that doesnt mean we should get rid of the whole thing. If we did that there'd be no profile for George Bush, Tony Blair.... Perhaps someone knows of some way to get in touch with the organisation to ask them directly. )--Camuvan—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wikigreps (talk • contribs).

Just to clarify, these are Camuvan's contributions.--HJMG 11:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

• actually the CEN with gilinsky that talks about how her faith is centred around the law of the land might actually support their claim to attribute holiness to the court system - not such a strange idea to believe that judges do the work of God etc etc - i wil actually add that to the article to see if it makes things any more useful to us. WIKIGREPS —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wikigreps (talk • contribs).

• Comment A reference to HaMaayan on the Cambridge page was removed with an edit summary saying "remove link to HaMaayan which is a spoof page - not the mainstream synagogue existing since the 1930's".--HJMG 11:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying but as far as I can see the organisation is real, as shown from the google search and the charity commission website. If it is small, it was nevertheless big enough for its trustee to be interviewed by the Cambridge Evening News as a representative of the Cambridge Jewish community so it can't be that small. In any event, wikipedia has hundreds of pages on individual churches, synagogues, temples or cults with only a few hundred members (i've certainly read quite a few here!). HJMG - would you not agree with me that we should maybe be concentrating on making the page better and not removing it based on current knowledge. look forward to hearing your thoughts - i am new round here so apologies if i have something wrong. Camuvan --Camuvan

We have to wait and see what decision is made about "notability". (A couple of internet mentions isn't very much for a current organisation.) If the article stays, yes, I hope someone will be able to sort it out and separate verifiable fact from fiction. --HJMG 07:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

wikihalas says - i know the organisation of hamaayan a bit although i am not a member -- i was in cam for a bit and they are definitely there! i know some of their beliefs are considered a bit bizarre by mainstream judaism FROM WIKIHALAS —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.134.187.89 (talk • contribs) 23:46, 29 May 2006.

• Delete Very minor and highly localized new religious sect with views considered bizarre (they going to support out-of-the-womb pregnancy technologies to be developed hundreds of years in the future by getting Jewish people to move to Cambridge and suing people a lot?) by mainstream Judaism. Not notable enough for Wikipedia. Bwithh 05:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete this seals it for me: "HaMaayan has applied several times to be affilated to the Federation of Synagogues". If this communal body of UK Judaism doesn't see it as a bona fide synagogue, neither should we. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 15:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

  Having an article about an organization does not imply that Wikipedia "endorses" it as a "bona fide synagogue". Many organizations we have articles about are not affiliated to the Federation of Synagogues. What does count is that they are not notable. What is worse (as far as I can see) is that most of the information here is unverifiable. For all we know, HaMa'ayan could be fiercely opposed to all forms of extrauterine gestation, and traditional litigation. By the way, the name just means "well" or "spring" in Hebrew, and there are more organizations that have this name. --Lambiam^Talk 20:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep this article seems to be generally quite accurate. they may be a small organisation but they definitely exist as there is information about them on several locations on the internet. we must help improve the article though --Camuvan
• Keep the page is clearly about a real organisation, so let's keep it wikigreps
• Delete. Doesn't it bother anyone that the information is unverifiable? --Lambiam^Talk 03:11, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - notability not sufficiently asserted either in the article or in the preceding arguments, IMO. Colonel Tom 12:23, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.