Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greengate Mall

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. W.marsh 23:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greengate Mall

No assertion of notability. There are several of these n-n closed malls with articles in List of defunct shopping malls and in Category:Defunct shopping malls. I'm bringing this one here alone at first to check on general consensus before I nominate more, as I can't see that just being closed makes a mall notable. Inner Earth 22:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, not unique. Yanksox ^(talk) 22:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Keep, part of the "Dead Malls" project by Wikipedia and for consistency, Moreau36, 2208, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry but really doesn't connect to me, just because it's of a large link doesn't necessarily make it notable. Maybe there are some malls that are notable within that list, but being listed there doesn't create notability. There is nothing in that article to indicate that anything in terms of architecture, news, or anything else, made this mall noteworthy. Yanksox ^(talk) 22:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Well, you will have to be consistent, look at the list and delete most of the articles because ther are many malls in the list that are "very minor" and non-notable. --Moreau36; 2215, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The nominator indicated that he was nominating this particular mall to obtain a conseus of this cat. If this article is deleted, then alot of articles will probably be thrown in. If not, well, things stay normal. Yanksox ^(talk) 22:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

As Yanksox said, I'm just testing the waters with this one. I'm sure that some defunct malls may be notable, but I think that this one, as well as others I would afd/prod if appropriate, is not. Don't worry too much about consistency, I'll address it if necessary after this afd. This nom is just for Greengate Mall, though I'd welcome comments on whether others think that more of the group of defunt malls may need to be discussed/nominated/prod'd/afd'd. Inner Earth 22:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Query and Comment A) Is there actually a Wikiproject relating to dead malls? B) If so, it should be based on malls which were notable. Existing malls may be different as they are existing large geographical features, but the defunct ones in the category seem to assert no notability, with several having very little content or scope for expansion that will not amount to pointless cruft. Jammo (SM247) 23:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
• Good Lord! Delete NNE (Notability not established). What's next, an entry for every single Wal-mart? Comment Btw, that Pittsburgh mall navbox must be the ugliest and most useless I've ever seen. ~ trialsanderrors 23:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand your comment, but please make it less POVish. We're not talking about how ugly the mall is, we're talikning about whether the articles should be kept or not. Thank you. --Moreau36; 2316, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Separated opinion on topic at hand from idle observation per your request. ~ trialsanderrors 00:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete with prejudice despite and in spite of and to spite prior precedent. All individual retail outlets are NN unless they either occupy notable/historic structures (e.g. The Passage) or are of monumental significance (e.g. same, or Mall of America). Otherwise, they are to be listed in the articles of the corporations operating them, if such corporations meet WP:CORP etc. - and we do have some of those. Can't point off hand, but I can research the subject. - CrazyRussian talk/email 23:43, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. So the new guideline for inclusion is now "monumental" significance? Thats news to me. But yea, this one is quite flushable. youngamerican (ahoy-hoy) 03:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. The creation of Wikipedia:WikiProject Dead Malls has established that dead malls are notable in general. The stores at Greengate Mall were collectively a major employer in Hempfield Township, Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania. TruthbringerToronto 00:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep as part of the "Dead malls" WikiProject, and expand. SchuminWeb (Talk) 00:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Delete per Yanksox and CrazyRussian. Does not meet the standards of WP:5P and WP:NOT. If a dead mall is inherently encyclopedic for no reason other than it's a mall and it's closed, I may never question the encyclopedic value of an article on an elementary school or mytube film ever again. I also am unable to find a policy that the creation of a wikiproject automatically confers encyclopedic value on any given article within that project. Wikipedia:WikiProject contains no statement that the creation of a wikiproject conveys notability, significance, or encyclopedic value. Agent 86 01:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. And I think there should be a presumption against articles that are sourced only from a single website. If it's so important, why isn't it in a book? This mall is covered adequately by deadmalls.com. Wikipedia is not archive.org. Well, actually, it is mentioned in some books. No change of opinion. None of the books suggest that this mall ever was particularly important. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:55, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Having a project doesn't make something encyclopedic. Projects should be formed to work on articles on the topic, and one of the things the project should do is filter out non-encyclopedic content in the projects area of interest. There is nothing in this article to make it seem notable. It certainly fails WP:CORP in the current form, and that is the relevant standard to use - malls are businesses themselves, they just rent space to retail tenants instead of office tenants the way office towers do. GRBerry 02:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Not worth the fight. youngamerican (ahoy-hoy) 03:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
• 'Delete. I'm sorry, but having a WikiProject does not automatically confer notability. (Now I wish someone would invoke that in all these school AFDs...) Stifle (talk) 22:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Delete as per Yanksox and CrazyRussian. --Strothra 01:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Delete the fact that it is part of a Wikiproject does not prevent the rest of the community from rejecting it as NN. Pascal.Tesson 07:23, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.