Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eric Bruno Borgman

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was delete. Joyous 00:32, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Eric Bruno Borgman

Not notable enough. His claim to fame is directing an independent movie called The Deserter, and being an extra in a bunch of movies. "eric bruno borgman" gets 3,000 Google hits. "eric bruno borgman" + deserter gets 194. JoaoRicardo 22:51, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

• In his defence, he is listed as uncredited in an impressively high number of films[1]. Still, barring any new evidence of notability, weak Delete. --fvw* 23:23, 2005 Jan 28 (UTC)
• Keep. Also, +borgman +deserter gets 289; he's often being referred to as other than "Eric Bruno Borgman". Samaritan 23:44, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

* Keep - "Eric Bruno Borgman" gets 3,220 hits on Google! Which according to: there is a precedent for inclusion! Also, he was up for deletion already in March of 2004 and he survived the vote then, what has changed? Here is what RickK said about the article: [2] Dwain 23:51, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)

• • The "precedent" referred to is about a dead Argentinian bus driver, not a living aspiring actor/director who actively promotes himself all over the internet. The VfD referred to was not a VfD at all, but, it seems, an undeletion after the article was speedied by Adam Bishop. This appears to be the article's first appearance on VfD. -R. fiend 06:25, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Notability seems to be based solely on having written, directed, and starred in a single movie. Now writing, directing and acting in a movie can make you Orson Welles, or it can make you a guy who owns a video camera. I think this guy is closer to the latter. Looking at The Deserter on IMDb (which is very easy to get listed on) I see no financial box office results (just a budget), and for release dates I have a single date in Westwood Massachsetts (Borgman's hometown), and a single film festival in Belgium (where he didn't win anything). No distributor, it appears. A friend of mine made an independent movie the same year, got a distributor, made a small box office gross, and won a slew of awards at festivals. Neither he nor his film is on wikipedia, and that's not a huge fault for WP. Borgman is an indepedent filmmaker trying to use wikipedia to make a name for himself. I wish him well making movies, but not in using this site for promotion. Delete. And delete The Deserter too. -R. fiend 02:25, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Additional comment: as far as RickK's comment that he has a lot of listings on IMDb, almost all of them are uncredited=no lines=extra. As a SAG member (which his bio here says he is) it would be very easy for him to get roles as extras. Still no basis for notability. -R. fiend 02:42, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like a little bit of professional jealously there Fiend. I think an awful lot of asumptions are being made by you. Firstly, are all uncredited roles extra roles? According to IMDB he's credited in Code of Ethics, Radical Jack in which he plays Sherrif Corwin, Private Lies, Lightning Fire From the Sky, and including his own two feature films that's pretty good. Secondly, there are a lot more credits for this person on TVTome. Who says his film was shot on video? I looked at the inclusion policy on IMDB and it doesn't look that easy to get a film listed. Must say, I love the "friend of mine" story by the way, it really puts it over the top! If it's so easy to be listed on IMDB what's your name so I can check out your credits? Dwain 03:37, Jan 29, 2005 (UTC)

If you say a line in a film you are in the credits, if you don't say a line, then you're basically an extra. My "video camera" quip was a quip. The Deserter is a film, but all that means is he either owns or rented a film camera. I have no credits on IMDb, which is hardly surprising as I'm not in the field of film (though I have made an uncredited appearance in The Time Machine, yes I was an extra). We don't have articles on unpublished or self-published authors, we don't have articles on un-signed bands or bands who release CD-R's they burn in their computers, so there's no reason to list movies or films that haven't been picked up by a distributor or are not realeased outside of a showing in the maker's hometown. -R. fiend 03:52, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Also, where is the record of a VfD? All I see is this article's undeletion, meaning it had presumably been deleted without a vote. I see no indication this has had a VfD vote until now. -R. fiend 03:53, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I have The Cider House Rules and I'm going to watch it again and see if I can see the "flirting soldier on train." Dwain 03:56, Jan 29, 2005 (UTC)

People are distorting the facts concerning this person. Why is that. Type with quotations "Eric Bruno Borgman" in a Google search and see how many hits you will get, if his one film The Deserter is his only claim to fame than how do you explain the discrepancy between the 3,220 hits for his name alone and 289 hits for his name with the film? Dwain 02:58, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC) COMMENT You mean to tell me that Nuker is going to be kept but this article is going to be erased?!? I don't get WikipediA Beemish

• Keep Paul August ☎ 05:05, Jan 29, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. We don't automatically allow a Professor to have an article just because he is a professor, so we shouldn't let an actor have an article, just because he's an actor. The number of uncredited appearances doesn't make significance. Average Earthman 18:45, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: see more discussion on Talk:Eric Bruno Borgman. Including information on efforts thathave been made to get Eric Borgman mentioned on as many wikipedia pages as possible. -R. fiend 21:47, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Come back when you actually get your name in the credits, Eric. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia (albeit one currently which has some weird strengths and weaknesses), not a headshot distribution service. --Calton 05:05, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, vanity. Evidence of search engine manipulation is not necessarily evidence of notability. —Korath (Talk) 08:42, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, this is vanity and obvious self-promotion. Kevin Rector 14:34, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. In lieu of the other assorted articles this is clearly self-promotion. Xezbeth 20:42, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Simple promo. Wile E. Heresiarch 07:25, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Falls short of my interpretation of the recommended criteria for inclusion of biographies. Delete per Average Earthman's argument. Rossami (talk) 18:22, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Borgmania. -Willmcw 00:11, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.