Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elmer Wood Elementary School

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus, defaulting to keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 06:01, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Elmer Wood Elementary School

• Delete All schools! Or at least the non-notable (95%) ones. Catchpole 13:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Creator's status should not be relevant to this conversation. If this is a real public school, it should be kept. If it isn't, please feel free to ignore my vote. Attic Owl 13:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Attic Owl. Please don't bring the author into this. A fact is a fact no matter who wrote it. SliceNYC 14:08, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, WP:SCHOOL. --Yamla 14:31, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep if the bit about the school winning multiple awards is indeed true. That's interesting. Kimchi.sg 14:35, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Too many articles about elementary schools. --Larry V (talk | contribs) 15:05, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:SCHOOL. Schools are out! Marcus22 15:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment I don't care for the second sentence of that nomination. If the nominator cares to remove it, I invite him or her to remove this comment at the same time. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:35, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per being a non-notable school. However, that status is completely independent of the author's prior behavior. JoshuaZ 15:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Elementary schools are not automatically notable. Also agree with Dpbsmith, above. Kafziel 16:27, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - per nom. WP:SCHOOL is a proposed guideline or policy and is to be considered a "work in progress". Also the status of the creator is not a reason to delete an article. Mattisse 17:26, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I think all of the votes, both delete and keep, have been pretty clear that they are not taking the creator's past into account. Kafziel 17:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: Sorry for offending everyone's sensibilities but some of her deleted material is borderline vandalism and the history of the talk page for this article has already been identified as possible sockpuppetry. If you don't want to take any of that into account, fine by me - just ignore my comment. —Wknight94 (talk) 17:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment, The talk page I wiped out was absolutly puppetry. WP:AGF, but I have a pretty good idea who did it and why. Contributor should be monitored closely, but a history of bad behavior doesn't have any bearing on this particular article as at the very least the school's existance is verifiable (though much of the article needs verification). Now let's all go back to the usual citing of non-accepted guidelines and general notability bickering that every school AfD has become.--Isotope23 18:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment From Author I have never "sockpuppeted" anything in my life! If there was any "sockpuppeting" going on, then it was probably my very mean big brother having a bit of fun using my user name. I apologize if he has done any of that.--Little Miss Cheerleader 17:20, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - There are approximately 75 California elementary schools already listed in Wikipedia. According to one link on this school's article, it has good ratings on various scales relative to other California elementary schools. Why not give this school a chance to develop it's site before a hasty deletion? The article is less than two months old. Mattisse 17:54, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep for want of deletion criteria. Gazpacho 17:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete nn school. Carlossuarez46 18:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as non-notable. WP:SCHOOL is still a proposed guideline but it has been well debated and I think it's an excellent barometer of notability for schools untill a formal policy comes around. Using that this school gets an, "F". Ifnord 18:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, elementary schools fall below my threshold for school inclusion.--Isotope23 18:45, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - The two awards mentioned in the article are verified by the California Department of Education - see footnotes in the article. Mattisse 18:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Both are minor awards given by the state, one of them seems to include 50 other schools easily. They hardly qualify as notable. JoshuaZ 18:53, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: Wow, nice job finding some semblance of notability for this. I removed my vote. —Wknight94 (talk) 19:59, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Weak keep Someday, when people aren't so het up under the collar about these things, we'll have to settle down and work out what really makes a school article worth keeping. (Or maybe we'll just create wikischools and move them all there.) Until that day, I'm willing to compromise on keeping any school with a meaningful assertion of notability in the article, and deleting all others. So for now, keep, but if no better assertion of notability arises, this will be a goner once we actually have standards instead of being an indiscriminate collection of information. GRBerry 02:34, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• • Comment. I think the debate used to be between those who considered schools inherently notable (eg. as of significance to all in the community they served for several generations) and those who said 'nope, let each one have a specific claim to notability over and above that'. Generally speaking we seem to have moved on to accepting the latter viewpoint. And that is a good thing IMHO. The issue with this school is thus whether or not it meets that extra level of notability over and above being a school and thus of import to its community. Does it? Well, it would certainly appear to be a good school. (The awards tell us as much perhaps). But is it notable simply by virtue of it's being a good place to send your kids? I still think not. It may require other schools to strive to reach it's standard - and that is no bad thing - but to my mind it still requires something more in order to be considered notable. Marcus22 12:43, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• Weak keep. Elementary schools generally don't cut it as far as noteworthiness is concerned, but this one has a weak assertion of notability. I say keep for now. --Coredesat talk. ^_^ 06:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak assertions of notability are good enough to avoid speedy deletion, but aren't a criterion for passing AfD. Kafziel 13:16, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Delete. In that case, delete as unverifiable with reliable sources. WP:SCHOOL isn't going to be approved before this AfD closes, and this would probably fail it if it did. --Coredesat talk. ^_^ 19:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - Kafziel, I think you are going to find that certain areas of the country, like Merced, a migrant worker, primarily Hispanic town in California's Central Valley won't have any notable schools ever, while most San Francisco and Seattle areas schools will make the grade easily. Mattisse 15:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. That's life. The elementary school I went to as a child is not on Wikipedia, nor should it be. Schools (and people in the district) should not be seeking validation by having articles on Wikipedia. If it's a decent school, be content with that. If you love it, make an alumni site or something. Kafziel 15:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment From Author Why does it matter if the population is mostly hispanic? Marin County, California has a large population of hispanics also, and they have excellent schools. --Little Miss Cheerleader 17:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The ethnic background of the population has nothing to do with anything. Kafziel 17:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Nothing of note distinguishes this school, as evidenced by the absence of any "what links here" links. The article itself fails to mention any thing noteworthy that would distinguish this school from others in the same county, much less against other elementary schools worldwide. -- technopilgrim 18:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep all verifiable public institutions. --Centauri 03:02, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. School cuft. Vegaswikian 18:32, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per reasons provided at Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep. No valid reason for deletion provided by nominator. Silensor 02:57, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, verifiable and the article looks a lot better now. JYolkowski // talk 16:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - according to the reference the award was 2000 not 2006 as according to the article. If they got that wrong, what else is wrong? BlueValour 04:33, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete nn elementary school. Eusebeus 16:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep since notability is presented in the form of multiple awards given to this school. Yamaguchi先生 19:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - the awards listed in the school's article are not valid. One (the Title I "award") is not an award at all but a designation by the Federal government that a school has a significant number of students from low-income families. It is not based on test performance, teacher quality, or anything else. The other one (the California Distinguished School award) is expired. It is only valid for 4 years, and was not renewed for this school in 2004.[1] Without these awards, what's notable about this school? Kafziel 19:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
  • My feeling is that if it has won these awards, it is notable enough, it does not need to continually win the same award every year or four years, and not everyone has to agree with my opinion. Yamaguchi先生 19:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Well, evidently the State of California would disagree. And the Federal one isn't even an award. It's just a huge list of schools who will not be punished for failing to conform to standards. Kafziel 20:05, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

What's your source of that information? --Little Miss Cheerleader 21:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The California Department of Education.

• California Distinguished Schools - the award was not renewed in 2004.
• Title I schools - this is not an award in the "hooray, we won" sense, but an award in the "we still get to keep our government grant" sense; any school not on the list has failed the requirements of the No Child Left Behind Act] and will be penalized. The top link on that page is the schools that succeeded (hundreds of them). The second link is what happens to the schools that didn't. Kafziel 21:23, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

• Keep, as the information seems to be verifiable and that is key. --Myles Long 22:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and allow for organic growth. Bahn Mi 22:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete No news sources outside it home region ← NN. ~ trialsanderrors 19:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.