Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daimonion

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was delete. Joyous 03:05, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Daimonion

Nonsense. Evil Monkey∴Hello 06:34, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)

INTRONDUCTORY NAME-CALLING:

To Evil Monkey and others: I think you are wrong, I read the deletion policy. Yes, it partially describes a hyphotetical Intelligence Increase (the I in SMILE - Space Migration, Inteligence Increase, Life Extension - see transhumanism, Timothy Learly) technique,

[edit] BUT!

DISCUSSION:

1. It describes a real phenomenum, published and discussed by some psychologists (society of the mind), neuroscientists and philosophers of nature. Daimonions ( ~ constrained personalities (the noun phrase being an symbolic expression on a non-basic level of abstraction of a symbolic derivative of a symbol - in terms of applied memetics I agreed not tu push into WikiPedia), suggests, which is congruent with the narration of the book and my logical and symbolic dervation analysis of the plot device - your "I" is a persona tied - personality - as there are some things you'll not do, you have constraints, by catching the primodial chaos of continuum of possibilities in the web of of constraints one can define, declare and execute - willlt - the HyperLogos, one's own, unique (singleton) personality (the Self, uberdaimonion controlling all the others, though it's not absolute monarchy and needs love, attention to details, at least basic cooperation, negotiation, empathy, sympathy, ability to fold space using orange space gas (joke!), lack of cohabitation phobia, discreetion, heigtened-acute awareness of Self ("ISelf" - both noun, verb and pronoun - the essence of a me creating process resulting in a me addressed as indirect reference by me as "I", there...I really try not to confuse, you must read carefully, NOT skipping "nil" words, every word is important) - and lots more, but nobody said that becoming Ariste is easy. It's not, both in book and in the Real World). Daimonion is a constrained personality packed in a shell, frozen, marked with a name by which is later summoned and burned into something, but it does not have to be some nanocomputer embedded in the brain, which technique will reach mass market only in 72 years. There are DOCUMENTED examples of people, who DO NOT SUFFER because of mulltiple personality disorder - contrary-wise! - they are ENCHANCED and happier that before. It' real, real, real!!!
2. The article is not finished. I plan to add at least twice as much and streamline (cleanup) the rest according to your definition of style. Sephira: You seem to avoid putting too many links on a page, perhaps for pragmatic reasons, perhaps for private estetic reasons - in which case I would argue if such law is appropriate in so colourful community.
3. One can argue about empyrical evidence, but it's little unfair, becase we lack the machinery to read people thoghts and provide a transcript, like telephone wiretap order result. Certainly you agree, that multiple personality disorder and schizophrenia, manic depression exist and are worthy of describing in the WikiPedia? Ask yourself in presence of evidence, why not?
4. It's not original research, 90% of the idea is copied directly from the book, I only streamlined it and fixed in places where it didn't click.
5. I am planning to add quotes from the book to give some reference and flavour (it show very interesting technique of presenting narration, in scenes when Ariste is talking or working with the daimonions and many things happen at the same time). The daimonion concept is a central plot device and is so brilliant In My Very Humble Opinion, that it deserves to be mentioned separate from the book. Hence, it deserves a separate article.
6. Did Agquarx 12:15, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC) manage to push the pendulum in You a little toward more balance in balance of power and healty dose of imbalance or maybe you have some contra-arguments? Please be civil and sensible. Please think before you act. Please don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. I propose to discuss more instead of (useless and stupid) hastily and hostile voting before discussing - you are supposed to serve the community, NOT the other way, a a final arbiter and antivandal defence field, am I right? You act too fast - I forgive you, because it's probably because of too much work fighting spamming morons and bots, but don't be fooled that it's OK, it probably did damage in the past and migt do a lot more damage in the future. -Agquarx 12:15, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

ASSOCIATED ORATORY ARGUMENT:

Think About The Day After Tomorrow. Cherish The Now, But Be Prepared To Face Consequences In Evernow. Are You Ready For What To Comes? Control Your Fate. Never Believe In What You Read, Including This Sentence (one can construct logically true sentence which neverless is evil and must not be executed, never believe in words alone as the truth, examine the fruits - this is the way to separate the good and the evil). Every Generalization Is False, Including This One. Remember To Forget Often. Agree To Disagree. If You Don't See YourSelf In The Mirror, Turn On The Light. Life Is Random, Not Chaos. Stabilization Is A Path Down, On That Path Lies Danger Of Everhungry Abyss of Void. Violence Is Not The Answer, It Is The Question. Sell Your Self, You'll Gain Neutral Point Of View. Laugh At Yourself, Oftener Then At Others, When In Doubt, Be Silent. Evidence Might Be Self-Evident, Know Thy Source, Know Thy Body, Know Thy Self. -Agquarx 12:15, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC), self-quoting closure of virulent memes and coroutines, a little tongue-in-cheek, but trying heavily to understand your motives, feel with-you, touch your minds in a communion (communication entry needs a small amendment...) and avoid the obvious, not succumb to the primal anger of a parent defending a child.

ASSOCIATED CALL TO THE VOICE OF REASON:

BASIC HYPOTESIS: We are Fighting for the better future rather as an sephira of Athena/Minerva, NOT Ares/Zeus. FOLLOWS: Being a Real Man DOES NOT IMPLY forbidden from thinking like a woman. IMPLICATION: Athena (she) will propose a treaty terminating war even before it begins using the intristic human ability to reason and empathy, which only need to be perfected by training, she can drain out the will to fight from opposing sides to win without a single battle - the mu strategy of warfare, which is HARD in { this } universe, because you flow against the gradient of entropy, thus you need to possess Wisdom BILATERAL RELATION (if assuming super! abstraction) or NEGATED IMPLICATION @ Ares (he) will attack at random closest locus of decreased entropy and kill'em'all and then take pictures of bloody corpses of children after raping everthing at reach including trees and vegetables - this is the penultimate strategy of warfare and is EASY in { this } universe, because you flow with the gradient of entropy, thus even Reason is not required, though MIGHT help, depends. HYPOTHESIS FROM IMPLICATION: Gods and Goddesses are useful as device for effective reasoning, for they embody an essence of an idea, each and every one from any mythology you choose to study (or believe in, then it's { this } plus a person and the willt).

ASSOCIATED CALL TO THE VOICE OF LOVE:

For people who are not scared of somewhat abstracted mysticism combined with reason, logic and scientific method: The Tree of War brings death, famine, pestilence, pain, mourning, destruction, tears, lost hope and the end of the world. The Tree of Knowledge brings neverending stream of tasty, nutrituous, healthy, useful fruit. The Tree of Life guides us toward the better option, to avoid the end of the world. One only has to listen, examine own motives often, discuss own deepest assumptions, possitive disintegrate to nuorish Mind and make it closer to perfect, possitive dissociate to nuorish Self, to bring own contribution into this melting pot of minds dancing, trembling, to the pulsing rhytm of a common idea-machine, pumping out the darkness of the Night of fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) ( the sequence prepending { this } bracket expression (ASSUMPTION: while reading, rules of English are added with replacement into reasoning process - from left to right, from top to bottom) should be accompanied by a song called "All Souls Night" created by entity named "Loreena McKenniit", I'm deadly serious { here }, feel free to test it by empyrical experiment - there is free audio media and lyrics on the home page, easy to find by googling (estimated lost time: 3 minutes)). It does not matter if you are artifical or spontaneously generated or a member of a phyla or phyle - differences should be encouraged to assert surtival, similarities should be praised to assert civilization and community.

grok?

-Agquarx 12:15, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

SIDE NOTE TO INVOKE MUTUAL TOLLERANCE:

Sometimes I might sound vague or null. Sometimes I use a wrong word. Sometimes I make speling mistakes in sense of wrong chain of letters and in sense of executing the craft of spellweaving (which might be poetically described as an act and action and acting of surfing on a standing wave of language). Please assume good intentions, to avoid (annullify the void) logical fallacy of reverse assumption which almost always leads to invalid conclusions (in this sentence I mixed three different levels of symbolic abstraction, sorry if it is nonsense to you, I try not to confuse). English is not my mothers' tongue. The answer to question "Why don't you edit the native language version of WikiPedia then?" is "Because I don't feel native. I chose to use English, because it is the most liquid language of a few from the set of languages that I know and am able to express myself in rightly ("rightly" means EXISTS: formally correct according to syntax rules of language as much as I am able to AND logically coherent AND true at higher level of abstraction as much as I am able to AND beautiful AND good as in higher good as much as I am able to AND in me-independent-transmission-protocol hollistic unilateral closed relation system of corresponence of truth' symbol and it's detivatives, ONTO as many levels of abstraction and expression of symbols and symbolic derivatives as I am able to AND in as little body of signals as I am able to AND in as little of relations of relative dependency AT other terms for the target to grok as I able to)).

Howgh. Agquarx 12:15, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

NOBODY EXPECTS LOGIC INQUISITION:

P.S. The notion of "foobar can be included" CAUSAL DEPENDENCY: "it will be widely known" COMBINED IMPLICATION: "what is not widely known, should not be incuded because it is not widely known so it should not be included" IMPLICATES "foobar is not widely known" and is a beautiful example of wrong (destructive) argument, imperfect reasoning, circular logic, power of self-assertions to create empty truth, logical fallacy and nonsense. Agquarx 12:15, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• It makes sense as the description of some thing in a science fiction book. Not useful outside the context of the book though, so I'd split Aristoi (novel) out of Aristoi and merge it into that. Daimonion would disambig between that and Socrates. Kappa 08:25, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Trilobite (Talk) 16:56, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• DON'T DELETE How can you sincirely write such causes? Do you have at least a bit of imagination? Didn't I provide multiple reasons for realizing the concept in the Real World? You seem to be on a sacred task to hunt down all of my articles and delete them, while showing nil coprehension of the topic and providing bogus explanations. Daimonions not useful? Have you got any real arguments against this concept or simply like to make other people miserable? Agquarx 17:10, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Oh, of course. I knew that this had the tang of familiarity about it. From the people that brought you Ego surfing (already itself up for deletion at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Ego surfing), Datastream (roll the history back to the original), Datapackets (already itself up for deletion at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Datapackets) random wikification of ordinary words in various articles, flamebait additions to Poland, the psychedelia that is Template:Love (up for deletion at WP:TFD), and the new "Memetics:" namespace. That vandalism watch is now called for. Delete. Uncle G 19:08, 2005 Feb 6 (UTC)
• Delete. but cleanup, as a description of a fictional entity, and separate into different articles if different topics are present. - Omegatron 18:47, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)
  • I'd want independent verification of the existence of the fictional entity, or even the book, myself. Uncle G 19:08, 2005 Feb 6 (UTC)
    • The book exists, but you're right that this is derived from a plot device. - Omegatron 20:10, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. The article says that this is a term derived from a plot device used in a novel. (Note the passive mode, it doesn't say by whom it was derived.) Even if it then proceeded to elaborate on that plot device in the context of the novel, the article should be deleted, since we don't need separate articles for things invented by novelists for their creations, unless they become more generally notable (e.g. grok). But that isn't what this article does: instead it launches off onto a personal essay/original research/speculation which verges on nonsense. That is even worse, and is eminently deletable. --BM 19:19, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Delete this and any other fabrications by this user. humblefool® 20:14, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Wile E. Heresiarch 04:49, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. What a load of (well see the state of a road after a large mounted procession has passed). 81.152.25.75 23:04, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.