Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christian Essenes

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete - Liberatore(T) 20:33, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Christian Essenes

I may possibly be wrong, considering all the wacky religious groups that are out there, but I believe this is a hoax. The article claims to be about a modern group, the "Christian Essenes", but all references are works on the ancient Jewish Essenes. Requests for better references have been ignored. Tupsharru 09:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Comment: This article has had an {{unreferenced}} tag since January 23, and the author was asked for specific references supporting the content on January 24, but has not responded. If this is kept, I suggest removing the stuff on the ancient Essenes, as that belongs elsewhere, and blanking the rest of the article, as there seems to be no verification for anything about the specific group the page claims to be about. If somebody wants to actually find useful references and write about various Christian fringe groups believing themselves to be Essenes, that's fine with me. But without that I don't see how keeping the page as it is is in keeping with the verifiability policy. Tupsharru 18:04, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

• There does seem to be a small group who describe their faith as membership of "The Essene Church of Christ" [www.essene.org], and so Christian Essenes do exist, and are not a hoax. So I think this will have to be a Keep Kevin McE 10:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Your link is dead, so still no verification? --Doc ^ask? 13:26, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete The group referenced by Kevin McE appears to bear little resemblance to the people described in the article, beyond the name. It looks like there are a number of groups out there using the name "Essene", but I can't find any indication that any of them are notable, or even much commonality among them. If someone can produce some citations about this particular group to establish some notability, I could be convinced to change my mind, but from what I can find, they're awfully fringy. Fan1967 14:55, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep. I've heard of modern-day "Essene" groups myself; whether this is one of them, though, I'm unsure. I'm certainly willing to change my vote if evidence crops up. RGTraynor 15:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

• Comment That's the problem. I can't find anything that seems to match the group as described here (affiliated with the Independent Catholic Churches) except in Wiki and mirrors. May be a hoax, may be a tiny group that's totally off the radar. Fan1967 15:06, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

• Weak keep. The basic problem here is that it doesn't really answer the obvious questions about the contemporary origins of any groups of Christian Essenes. Label it for expansion or question its accuracy; this doesn't look like deletion-worthy material in itself, though. Smerdis of Tlön 15:46, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
• Weak keep per Smerdis. Also, one advantage of the page's existence is as a place to shunt info about these new religious movements who claim descent from the historical Essenes, who would otherwise clutter up the Essenes page. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 17:34, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Delete unless WP:V now means nothing. All the references here relate to the ancient Jewish Essenes, on which we already have an article. There is no evidnce that there even exists a group of self-identifying Christian Essenes, much less that this information on them is accurate. All the info here about anceint Essenes would be unrecognisable by any Schollar of ancient Judaism - it is POV at best, and just wrong at worst. 'I think I've heard of this' isn't verification. 'Shunt information here', but we have no verifiable infomation to shunt. Sure it is possible that something will be verified later, well then at that point we can consider undeleting - but it has had months with no verification, so delete it for now. --Doc ^ask? 12:54, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Looks sketchy at best, and the website referenced above doesn't exist...I don't claim to know all of Christian theology, but I've not run across them, and I'd like to think I'd at least have heard of them if they were notable. Essjay ^{Talk • Contact} 13:04, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Delete per User:Doc glasgow. The external links on the page, as well as the link mentioned by another user above do not work. No verifiability. --Andy123(talk) 13:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, implausible at best. Google hasn't heard of them, either, if you discount Wikipedia mirrors. Jude (talk,contribs,email) 13:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as unverifiable (and probably as non-notable even if it were verifiable). --G Rutter 14:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Moe ε 17:47, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete for lack of WP:RS. Sandstein 18:54, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.