Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chiodos

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep all except the reissue, and I wonder if "The Heartless Control Everything" is a song about Wikipedia? ~ trialsanderrors 05:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chiodos

Chiodos (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

I am adding the following articles to the nomination:

The Chiodos Brothers. (acoustic) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

The Best Way to Ruin Your Life (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

The Heartless Control Everything (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

All's Well That Ends Well (album) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

All's Well That Ends Well (Reissue) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

They are all albums by the band. The first three were not released under any label; only the last one (and its reissue) was, hence my comment below. - Che Nuevara 22:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Looks like this band may have notability issues per WP:MUSIC. Not being a music expert, I thought it'd be best to let the Human League Of Distinguished Music Knowledgable Editors discuss them. No vote from me. Tubezone 22:09, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

• With only one record with a credible label and no apparent headlining tour, my tendency is towards delete. I'm willing to reconsider, however, if convincing evidence of notability arises. (see below) - Che Nuevara 22:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
• Weak delete. I see one relatively recent review in Real Detroit Weekly[1], and some indication of international touring, but there's just not enough here for me to be able to signoff on the concept of "notability" per WP:MUSIC. As with CheNuevara's comment, I'm open to reconsidering my position if further proof of notability emerges, but in absence of that, the articles look a bit too self-promotional. --Elonka 22:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep This is pretty ridiculous. Chiodos has opened for Matchbook Romance and Atreyu on national tours, along with Warped and a European tour... They're on Equal Vision Records...MySpace has 215,000 friends and over 3 million hits. These guys are huge. This article needs a little sourcing; I'm sure a little digging will dredge up radio airplay and probably video airplay as well. Some of the side articles can go, but I'm flabbergasted that this band is even being considered for deletion. Chubbles1212 23:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Number of MySpace friends is not exactly what I'd call a good indicator of notability. And it's nowhere near a reliable source, so it's inapplicable. - Che Nuevara 23:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
    • I mention it because it's often an indicator of a strong fanbase, which can be verified through other third-party sources. I just added a slew of press references to the article which should help prove the point. Chubbles1212 23:45, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Being in close proximity to notable people doesn't automatically create notability. Opening for Matchbook Romance and Atreyu?? Who cares? Even if they opened for the Rolling Stones, they'd still be nobodies in an encyclopedic scheme of things. Crabapplecove 00:49, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. Actually, it matters quite a bit; these are major-label bands on national and international tours. As I see it, Chiodos clearly passes clauses 3 and 5 of WP:MUSIC, and should at this point be properly verified with citations. Furthermore, I use Wikipedia as a source for information on bands all the time, and this is precisely the kind of group I'd be looking for. Chubbles1212 01:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep All (I typed this all once but it didn't save): Per Chubbles1212. Also Billboard Magazine exposure shown here. —Wknight94 (talk) 03:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep All. Large band and easily meets number four on the Criteria for musicians and ensembles in WP:Notability which is defined as "Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable)." Tours internationally even. I even bought their CD at Circuit City. That's big enough for me. Dark jedi requiem 06:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Not to be argumentative, but they've only released one album on any record label, according to the article. Releasing the same album twice is not the same as releasing two albums, - Che Nuevara 06:48, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
• I think at the very least the separate album and band member articles should be merged into the main article. I also find it bothersome that this band has multiple articles, while veteran blues players with multiple indy label releases, that easily pass WP:MUSIC criteria, like Lil' Ed and Dave Weld (note the redlinks, and, yes, I have a bias) don't even have Wikipedia articles at all. Tubezone 08:36, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Why is it important that those are redlinks? They've always been redlinks. Go ahead and create them. You're saying that like they've been determined to be non-notable - but they haven't been. —Wknight94 (talk) 11:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Chiodos per nationwide concert tour, and The Heartless Control Everything, All's Well That Ends Well (album) per WP:MUSIC. Delete The Chiodos Brothers. (acoustic), The Best Way to Ruin Your Life, and All's Well That Ends Well (Reissue), as reissues and self-released albums fail WP:MUSIC. If the band satisfies WP:MUSIC, so do the individual band members. Ohconfucius 09:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm willing to get behind this solution: Keep Chiodos and All's Well That Ends Well, merge the reissue into the orig. album article, weak keep The Heartless Control Everything, and delete the rest. As of now, there's nothing that I can see in the band members' articles that's not in the band's article, so a provisional merge into the main article without prejudice against recreation is appropriate to avoid duplicating content. - Che Nuevara 17:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep all of the articles, but the reissue should be merged with the original album article. No reason to delete any of it now that it's clear the band meets WP:MUSIC. --badlydrawnjeff talk 17:32, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Idk if this is the official artical about the band, but they were featured in AP the magazine alternativepress.com they are amazing and they should seriously be taken seriously. They are amazing.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.235.63.26 (talk • contribs).

• Keep all except the merge the reissue. Clearly and obviously notable. Unfocused 04:17, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
  • I don't think self-issue albums warrant their own articles, although clearly they can be mentioned in (aka redirected to) the band's article. As far as the band members go, see my previous comment. - Che Nuevara 21:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep all articles. According to Wikipedia:Notability (music) A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band,) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:" Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one large or medium-sized country" and "Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable)." The band meets both of these. They are currently on a national tour with Atreyu and Every Time I Die and will headline their own tour afterwards. Not to mention they have played Warped Tour in 2006 and Bamboozle as well. They are signed to Equal Vision Records founded in 1990 and has a pretty impressive roster. I have no idea why this is even being debated. This band is huge. -Lindsey8417 01:53, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
  • This must be some alternative definition of the word "huge" I'm not familiar with, as you are now the second person to use it. They topped at 164 on the BB chart and have not had a BB single. John Legend is "huge". While I'm willing to concede that these guys are notable, maybe even well-known, "huge" is going a little too far. By the way, no one has yet addressed the issues I raised of a) self-released albums and b) member articles which are entirely redundant with the band article. Those need to be merged. - Che Nuevara 02:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
    • I already tagged Craig Owens, Bradley Bell (musician), and Matt Goddard with merge tags, as well as the reissue album. That's fine with me. Chubbles1212 02:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Thanks, Chubbles. Assuming the pages are kept (it looks rather certain they will be) I would be happy to do the merges myself. - Che Nuevara 06:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep all articles listed per the comments made above, notability appears to be satisfied. RFerreira 05:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep If having their cd at chain supermarkets across the nation like Target and Walmart is any indication of being even a LITTLE notable, I would say Chiodos has more than met the requirements. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.53.243.86 (talk • contribs).

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.