Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Calgary Dollars

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was KEEP. -Splash^talk 23:52, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Calgary Dollars

This is a local barter group. This obviously isn't actual currency. Little verifiable information is available. For instance, I don't see an independent reliable source regarding its usage level. Rob 16:50, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Keep --Terence Ong ^Talk 16:51, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• Comment: I put back the original version (as I found it) to be fair. So, when voting note only 500 members are claimed[1]. Even this number isn't verified. A google doesn't seem to reveal info not provided by the group itself. I lived my whole life in Calgary, and I've never heard of this thing. It's just some little groups project, with no signficance. I think the article gives quite a false impression that this stuff is actually accepted currency. It seems this article is just an attempt at free advertising for an unheard of program. --Rob 17:17, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep There is the precedent of many other local currencies (or "community currencies", "complementary currencies") with articles. See, for example, Local currency#Modern Local Currencies, Category:Community currencies, List of Canadian community currencies. Whether or not someone living in a city of about a million people has heard of everything that's gone on in that city is not a measure of it's validity for inclusion. I haven't heard of every single thing mentioned in the Calgary, Alberta article and I've spent most of my life living here. (I'm providing specific feedback on comments about the article's content on the talk page.) --GrantNeufeld 21:41, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Well, I haven't heard of everything in Canada either, but I sure heard of the currency mentioned there. I'm sure every single person (even tourist) in Canada has heard of the Canadian dollar. One attribute of currency, is it tends to be known where it's used. But, I concede the mere fact I personally don't know of something, doesn't mean much, and we have to g--Rob 17:36, 26 December 2005 (UTC)o by published sources. So, I'll wait and see. But, when you do have time to update the article, I would urge you, as somebody familiar with it, to rewrite it completely with the non-Calgarian, even non-Canadian in mind. Consider the reader who's just learning about Calgary, knows nothing of our economic system, and could be misinformed by this. While I am certain you wrote this in good faith, and the program is operated in good faith, I fear allowing an article like this, and its precident, opens the door to others to make similiar articles, about a "currency" that aren't in such good faith. When you have time, I request the first two or three sentences make explicitly clear exactly (or as much as possible) what scope/utility this "currency" has (how many people use it, how many organizations accept it, how widely known it is). --Rob 23:04, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom -- Dalbury^(Talk) 23:27, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. I had no problem finding external references to the scheme's existence and validity. Maybe should be removed from Category:Currency of Canada though. --LesleyW 05:19, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. This is a verifiable article, and also notable for being an alternative currency in a large city. The meaning of local currency is also well-established (and there's a link in the article if any confusion remains), so I think Rob's self-reverted edits are unnecessary. - squibix 16:12, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
  • The "local currency" means the currency that's generally accepted in a local area. A (clueless) foreign tourist coming to Calgary, who asks their travel agent "What's the local currency" would be told of the Canadian dollar (assuming they had of an honest travel agent). No travel agent would mention Calgary Dollars. A tourist asking the same question of Hong Kong would be told of the Hong Kong dollar. Now, if you read Calgary Dollars and Hong Kong dollar (in their current state) both give the impression that the currency is real and fully useable. Of course only one of those two articles is factually accurate. Here's a quote from the factually correct article "The issue of local currency was then resumed by the Hong Kong Government and the authorized local banks after the emancipation.". Here's a quote from the misleading article "Calgary Dollars is a local currency ...". Notice how both assert they are a local currency, yet they use the term in quite a different manner. Also, I just removed Category:Currency of Canada, as there's actually a law that says nobody can claim something to be the Currency of Canada without authorization of the Canadian government. This is really going to far. --Rob 17:36, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you about Category:Currency of Canada; Calgary Dollars are not currency over the whole of Canada and thus obviously don't belong in that category. However, your insistence on an overly narrow meaning of 'currency' and 'local currency' make the rest of your point false. Yes, in the case of your question to the travel agent 'local currency' means the Canadian Dollar, but 'a local currency' also has a well-attested specific meaning which applies in the case of Calgary Dollars: witness the top Google hits for the phrase. 'Currency', similarly, is not limited to nationally-issued monetary units: as the dictionary has it, currency is 'money in any form when in actual use as a medium of exchange.' Calgary Dollars, though not widely used, certainly fit within that description.

Note also that your use of the Hong Kong article is not the clearest example: Hong Kong is actually a part of China, and therefore the fact that Hong Kong dollars exist seperately from Chinese currency means that they are much more likely to be termed a local currency than, say, Canadian Dollars. - squibix 19:04, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

You're making the false assumption that geography/locality means the same thing for Calgary Dollars that it does for Hong Kong dollars. It doesn't. Calgary Dollars (like apples) are worth something to whomever wishes to accept them, anywhere on Earth. They are worth no more, and no less, in Calgary, Edmonton, or Hong Kong for that matter. Nobody must take them, and most people won't take them, even in Calgary. The word "Calgary" exists in their name, but they have no *legal* tie to Calgary. Hong Kong dollars are legal tender and *must* be accepted for certain purposes by certain persons in certain situations in a certain place (the exact rules of when/where is beside the point, and I realize other currencies are used). By the same token the Canadian dollar *must* be accepted as settlement of certain debts in certain places in certain circumstances. If I eat at a Calgary resteraunt that advertises a meal for ten dollars, but doesn't say what type of dollar, and I leave ten Calgary Dollars at the table, and walk off, I've just committed a criminal offense. If I had left ten Canadian dollars, I would have legally settled the debt, and the resteraunt could not legally demand any further or alternate payment.

Also, I suggest the growing mistaken use of "local currency" has resulted from the fact there are so few *real* local currenies, like that in Hong Kong, and people just don't know real ones exist. But, our articles are supposed to inform, not misinform. Nobody's explained what beneficial knowledge this article provides. We don't write artcles for those in the know, but for those who don't know. --Rob 23:06, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep - Update article to explain what a community currency is to explain what the system actually is. -Dr Haggis - Talk 01:11, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Admittedly the article does a poor job of explaining Calgary Dollars, but it is verifiable and has been reported on the CBC news and other mainstream media. The article should probably be strengthened by adding reference to Social Credit's interesting past in Alberta. --NormanEinstein 15:24, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.