Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brent Henry Waddington

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Kirill Lokshin 02:56, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Brent Henry Waddington

I'm a bit worried about this. "Brent Waddington" turns up only 84 google results [1] and none of the top ones verify the artilce. No google news results [2]. In addition, I can find no evidence that the cited book exists (take a look at our book sources). --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 01:02, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per nom - Master Of Ninja 19:23, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Possible hoax. ISBN not verifiable. Even if true, non-notable. ERcheck 02:45, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment: With the current revision, when/if the mentioned book meets the criteria for inclusion of biographies for people still alive (book circulation reaches 5000), resubmitting the article should be no problem. Adding references to the author's other works on game theory and his vita would help the article.ERcheck 12:19, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per nom. Pete.Hurd 03:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Alakon 04:23, 31 October 2005 (UTC) (Disclaimer: I have a relationship with the publisher, though I don't have a financial stake)
• Elaborating on Possible Hoax: Alakon's comments not withstanding, further web searches make it seem more likely to be a hoax. Paradox Group, as a publishing company in Madison WI does not show up on a basic search, nor in their CoC. Further antedotal evidence of hoax: (1) Trout connection: a Waddington (not BH) has written a report on Trout; and (2) Game connection: Waddington Games (UK) had the first international rights to the game Monopoly. Even though the article notes authorship of book (which is not verified), ther are no references to the game theory aspect. And, this person's political aspirations and places of residence are non-notable. Still voting to delete. ERcheck 04:54, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment While creative, I must disagree with your theory. Waddington is a common last name- the Monopoly board game connection is coincidental. So is Trout connection. Alakon 07:03, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment Wisconsin Corporate Information Search records for Paradox Group- [3] Alakon 07:03, 31 October 2005 (UTC) (and obvious disclaimer - I have a connection to Paradox, though not a financial one in this context)
• Comment The Paradox Group Alakon points to is Paradox Inc. of Madison, Wisconsin. This is a "international poetry community" website non-profit. Unlikely that they would start publishing a game theory primer. This whole hoax exercise best not be some kind of time-wasting, banal "experimental poetry". Bwithh 12:14, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Obvious and poorly executed hoax Bwithh 05:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment Please note that the hoaxer has been seeding references to Brent Henry Waddington on other pages (notably changing the reference to Brent Waddington on the Blair Academy page to match his made up guy's results on google. The original Brent Waddington reference on Blair Academy's page appears to be have been a vanity posting by a real student of Blair Academy (his real name is Brent. S. Waddington as seen on this page. The hoaxer's history record will have to be examined after this case has been closed in order to purge such seedings Bwithh 06:00, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment A student who graduated from a prep school in 2004 is currently 24? Unlikely. In the US, typical HS graduation age is 17 or 18. I'm not sure how this is relevant. Alakon 07:03, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment Inspect my record all you want. But please try to limit the personal attacks. Alakon 07:03, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• I did a quick inspection of Alakon's contributions after finding this article and at least one other contribution, Bloodgood Cutter appears to be legitimate. --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 18:22, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment It might be somewhat believable that a newly published author in the slightly obscure field of game theory may not turn up on google, but the hoaxer also claims that Waddington is an American politician. That a US politician would turn up no hits on google is not believable.Bwithh 06:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment In the first version of the article I mention his plans for launching a 2008 campaign in Monroe Country. On seeing some of the feedback in this discussion I removed it, as I agreed it was not yet notable. I will now remove the reference to US Politican - my mistake. But I hope you can see why BHW would not be widely discussed in the politican context, as he's not currently well-known. Regardless, this side issue isn't relevant to the AfD issue.Alakon 07:03, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment If you admit he's not widely known as a politician and not likely to be discussed, how did you manage to find a news article page on CNN with the address http://archives.cnn.com/2002/POLITICS/10/29/waddington.monroe/index.html for your first version of the page? Though strangely, the CNN link goes only to a Page Not Found error. Bwithh 07:25, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Possibly hoax. Alakon, if it is not a hoax, don't worry or get upset. Save the current content for yourself, expand on it and add more references before trying to recreate the page again. If it is verifiable, it will be accepted next time. Good luck and Regards! --Vsion 07:20, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. Vsion- thanks for your polite comments. I suppose I'll follow your advice if it comes to it.
• Delete Not-notable. Marcus22 09:56, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Simply the number of edits that Alakon is applying to this AfD suggests vanity. The article describes the book as well regarded - but by whom, pray, if no one has yet seen a copy? Reconsider if anyone actually reviews his book or he ever gets elected to the Monroe County executive.-- RHaworth 11:16, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. A fairly exhaustive search suggests this guy has no peer-reviewed published articles and that this is a hoax. (I'm open to changing my mind if Alakon provides relevant links.) I note that there is a Brent Waddington at the University of Rochester; BWH is said to reside in Rochester, NY: [4]. BW is apparently due to graduate in 2008, which coincides with BWH's alleged political ambitions. Could be coincidence of course. Rd232 ^talk 17:59, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment The Brent Waddington at University of Rochester is Brent Stephen Waddington, an engineering and polisci major - and he is possibly the Brent S. Waddington who graduated from Blair Academy high school (see my note on him above). I suggest that Alakon selected this name in relation to Rochester and Blair Academy in order to suggest "supporting" google hits. Bwithh 18:15, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. The Paradox link provided shows only that someone has a business with that name, but there does not appear to be a real publisher; the book may or may not exist but there's no information available. Even if it does exist, unless evidence is provided that the press is notable and not a vanity press, the whole setup is ridiculously non-notable. Bikeable 18:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hoax allegation

• Bowker says ISBN will take 1-3 days to update. It is not currently listed because ISBN entry was mistakenly entered too recently (the publisher, to be honest, isn't the most efficent). It should be up by Monday night, though it may be Wednesday at the latest. However the ISBN publisher prefix is current and verifiable. It has a strange title, yes, but it's a real book from a real publisher. It will be for sale at Amazon, B&N, and other bookstores by the end of the week. I'll try to post a link here when it is. Alakon 04:23, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Amazon now has a sparse page up, but it at least verifies the title and ISBN. [5] 128.151.84.123 22:55, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Note: the user at 128.151.84.123 is using an IP address registered to the University of Rochester, alma mater of Alkon and Brent Stephen Waddington. Bwithh 03:24, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

• Comment Interesting, but I'm still sticking to my theory that this is a conspiracy by a poetry group. The sole google result for "Brent Henry Waddington" is now this cached page (no longer on the active page) which bizarrely lists the Wikipedia page on Brent Henry Waddington as one of the advertising sponsors of www.anylit.com , a poetry forum website owned by Paradox Inc., Wisconsin which Alakon initially suggested was the publisher of Waddington's game theory book, but which I pointed out was actually a poetry website group (see above).

A poetry group may have access to the ISBN / amazon registration service of a publisher. On the other hand, this may be a publicity stunt for a real book called Trout which is actually a poetry book. But I still don't buy that this is a real game theory bookBwithh 23:45, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Explanation of the hoax in 3 parts

1/ The Paradox Inc. poetry nonprofit has a staff webpage which lists an "A. Alkon" as Vice President - see this page i.e. Alakon. So if the book does exists, he's vice president of the company which publishes it.

2. But this Alkon seems to have a taste for fakes or hoaxes. On the poetry website neopoet.com (also part of the Paradox group of poetry websites), the User profile for Alkon lists a website of a fake hedge fund company called Alkon Financial as his Personal Website. This site comes complete with a link to a real initial SEC registration (i.e. basic paperwork), but apparently has no information or real webpages at all beyond a pure text legal notice. The only informative hits from a google search reveal that Alkon Financial hired a Overtech Technologies to build a Counterstrike (i.e. the video game)"control panel for their game server so they could have a high-speedy trustworthy place to host their online gaming tournaments". Overtech Technologies is a small-time (student run?) local webhosting outfit to which the person Alkon was appointed an Executive Director and Vice President of (possibly as a joke) as you can see on the Overtech "corporate" blog. In Fiscal Year 2004, Overtech claimed to have achieved a net profit of 916 dollars, 82 cents

3. A Whois database search reveals that the website for Alkon Financial is registered to a Mr. Alkon who lives in an apartment at the University of Rochester. Finally, This University of Rochester page shows that as of Fall semester 2005, Mr. Alkon is in the same political science class section as a "Brent Waddington" (This is the same engineering & polisci student, Brent Stephen Waddington which graduated from Blair Academy high school in 2004- see my other comments above). Brent is in his freshman year]. Bwithh 00:43, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Non-notable allegation

• Waddington might not be the leading figure in the Game Theory field, but this new introduction sets standards for clarity and quality. I know I'll be using it in my courses, and I believe many of my colleagues will as well.Alakon 04:23, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Please take a look at the precedents for deletion page, in particular the literature section, which says "Authors and writers are notable if they have released a book (other than through vanity press)" - in case you are wondering, Paradox is not a vanity/subsidy press because Waddington has not paid a fee to have the work published. ERcheck- I'll provide supporting documentation if you'd like, but I'm not sure what is appropiate and how exactly I go about showing it to you. Let me know.Alakon 04:23, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. Almost any information would be useful. Links to the publisher's page (I can't find it), links to scholarly articles by this person, links to academic institutions at which he holds posts, links to anyone who will sell the book. As it stands I am able to find no information on this person at all, nor on the book, and it looks hoax-ish. I am perfectly willing to reconsider if it is sourced, but if you have anything at all to back up the contents of the article, now would be a great time. Bikeable 04:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Reply. Thanks. That's reasonable - I'll see what I can do. As I said, publication date appears to be 11/1/2005. Is there any way we can defer this discussion a day or two?

[edit] Comments about this particular deletion process

• Forgive me for taking the liberty of organizing this page and this discussion - I am a somewhat new member to Wikipedia, but I thought organizing the discussion would make it much more intellegent and... well... organized :) This is my first time working in this sort of process and I hope we can all be constructive and cordial. Alakon 04:23, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Pete.Hurd said "delete as per nom" - I'm not sure what this means. Can you please clarify? Alakon 04:23, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. I'm not sure that re-organizing the votes was a good idea; it is, at least, very unusual. "delete as per nom" means just what it says -- the nominator's logic is good enough to support the delete vote. I'll hold a vote for a day or so and see if sources are forthcoming. Bikeable 04:47, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Concur about re-organization ... breaks up chronology of discussion. ERcheck 04:54, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Do not refactor deletion discussions by "votes". Please read Wikipedia:Guide to deletion#Discussion. Uncle G 12:08, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. 70.146.91.110 16:25, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete unencyclopedic, non-notable, and and agreeing that the refactoring (which doesn't appear to be by votes exactly is strange, and renders the article's defender(s) questionable. Xoloz 19:26, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination and arguments made by several other contributors.--Isotope23 19:36, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nominator and arguments above as to lack of verifiability and lack of notability. Even if it is not strictly a vanity publisher, it appears to be a very obscure publisher or possibly a type of self-publication. Even if this is not a hoax, the lack of collaterla references and citations show that the subject is not a notable figure in the field. (I am also very dubious about the ISBN issue. I have worked in publishing and bookselling, and in trade publication (that is, not vanity or self-publication), the ISBN of a book is available for ordering purposes typically 1-3 months in advance of publication, often 6 months in advance.) MCB 22:58, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as NN vanity. Even assuming this is not a hoax, there is nothing notable about the subject of the article. - Sensor 01:47, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
• Comment Poetry?! Figures! Wasn't it Nietzsche who said "poets are those that muddy their waters so as to make them appear deep"? Pete.Hurd 06:17, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
• Comment As I guess this is an aside, since this really appears to be about the NN aspect at this point, I managed to find one reputable source for the sale of the book [6]. Why didn't someone check Amazon before? I'm not sure how serious the book is- but I guess one of us is going to have to just wait until we come up with the $90 to find out and order it? ;)

• note: previous unsigned comment by make by user User:Fn (tag as suspected sock puppet for User:Alakon? I have same suspicions as Bwithh (below) about this). Pete.Hurd 18:37, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

• Comment You clearly haven't read the new additions to this discussion since you last posted. We *did* check the Amazon link - an Amazon page and a ISBN number is not final proof, as Amazon allows self-listing of titles and images as seen on this page, and presumably the esteemed Vice President of a poetry company knows how to register an ISBN. And on a google search on your background, it appears that you enjoy hoaxes with your college buddies. the user Fn = Alkon. Now you're trying to con users out of $90. give up already. Bwithh 14:49, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

• Notice that the publication date listed on Amazon is October 30, 2005 (the same day that the article was written). --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 17:19, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

• comment added Paradox Foundation, the publisher/webhosting company, to AfD. Pete.Hurd 14:54, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete what appears according to the evidence to be a hoax, and clearly failing notability. - Just zis Guy, you know? ^[T]/_[C] :: AfD? 17:11, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
• comment "waddington trout" gets beaucoup Google hits. A little investigation suggests that a "Waddington" is the body of a type of lure, to which a treble hook is usually attached. This in itself doesn't prove that the book is a hoax; the author could have picked "Waddington" as a pen name for the connection with trout, or it could be a coincidence. It's mainly the alleged connection with game theory that keeps the alarm bells ringing. --Trovatore 18:04, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Comment. I have added a comment on possible sock puppetry in this dicussion to the talk page. - Dalbury 00:44, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.