Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bengbu Public Security Bureau

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS. Even if I discount Joaquin Murietta as they'd only been here one day, and lump all the deletes and merges together, I'm still not satisified there is a consensus on what to do. -Splash^talk 00:29, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bengbu Public Security Bureau

non notable article by a user with a history of trying to push his agenda. Wikipedia is not a forum for propaganda.

• Delete for the above reasons. 152.163.101.6
• Delete Non-notable article with the main purpose of being a propaganda piece. Abstrakt 05:30, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
• Keep It obviously is notable as it has power of many thousands of people.

Sarcelles 22:22, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

• Keep and Expand, obviously notable but needs more text and perhaps some sources cited if possible. Piecraft 15:43, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as above comment. ··gracefool |☺ 17:02, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. I am reopening this poll because it was closed prematurely, before everyone with an opinion about this matter has expressed his/her views. As such, there is no consensus on whether this article should be kept or deleted. Nor do I think that the situation has been sufficiently explained. Here are three reasons why this article should be deleted:
  1. Precedents. Sarcelles has previously created 4 similar articles: Changchun Public Security Bureau, Tangshan Public Security Bureau, Shijiazhuang Public Security Bureau, Lu'an Public Security Bureau. None of those survived VfD, because they were deemed non-notable and POV. It makes little sense for this to be kept.
  2. POV. Sarcelles has a history of starting purely POV articles for the sake of pushing his agenda. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chinese cities for a detailed account of his actions starting from mid-May. Three Wikipedians (User:Abstrakt, User:Miborovsky, and I) are currently considering an RfC or even RfA against him if the situation does not improve quickly, because we are sick and tired of chasing after literally hundreds of his edits, de-POVizing when we can and VfD'ing when his creations are unsalvageable. This article is an example of that.
  3. Non-notable. There are 300+ prefectures or equivalents in China, Bengbu being one of them. Bengbu itself is an unremarkable city in Anhui province. Its public security bureau is, in turn, one of dozens of bureaus in its bureaucracy. There is absolutely nothing sufficiently remarkable about it to warrant an article at this point in time. The same goes for the other 4 articles that were already deleted.

  As such, this article should be deleted. -- ran (talk) 02:46, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

• Delete - I saw Sarcelles Falun Gong pushing articles earlier. Should be deleted. It's not like its as notable as a primary school is it? Maybe it should be in mentioned or listified in some sort of Police Hierarchy in China article - Hahnchen 02:59, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. nonnotable. mikka (t) 03:01, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Should be merged into a bigger article until it needs breaking out, but none of the reasons given here for not even mentioning it is actually compelling. Number of entities is absolutely not a good criterion for deletion. There are how many species on this planet? Grace Note 05:08, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

  Where should this article be merged to? Which sentence of this article, except the last one, even provides unique and encyclopedic information? The police department of Bengbu is located in Bengbu, and is in charge of the polic there... and it has detention centers! The last sentence is unique and encyclopedic, but there's already an article on the dissident; we don't need a 2nd article just to say who detained him.

  As such, there isn't even anything here to merge into any other articles. This article should be deleted outright. -- ran (talk) 05:25, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

  Honestly there is little information other than the location and that it is a government office handling policing. Until I can see a better reason for keeping this article, my vote is unchanged. Delete Abstrakt

• Keep, since we can say something specific about this particular PSB. Anyone researching it would not appreciate being redirected to Zhang Lin. Kappa 06:42, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I could also say something about my neighbourhood police kiosk, how it arrested 2 students for drinking and driving... Notable? I think not. The chance of someone researching is, as much as the chance that someone would be researching the above-stated kiosk. --Miborovsky 07:31, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

• I don't think a prefecture branch of the PSB bears any comparison to a local police kiosk, nor does arresting an internationally known dissent compare with arresting students for drinking and driving. Kappa

• Well how an internationally known athlete? How about I start an article on the police station whose officers arrested Micheal Phelps for drunk driving?

If you are an expert than feel free to give us tips on how to expand. Like ran and Mib have already pointed out, there isn't anything else in this article to expand upon. And I'm opposed to the idea of merging this information into the Bengbu article because that would be doing what Sarcelles once did, and that was making assinine edits on Chinese city article to make the main focus about prisons and police. Abstrakt 14:21, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Anyone researching it would not appreciate being redirected to Zhang Lin. — Then this researcher would find out absolutely no new info about the Bengbu PSB from this article.

Look, if you guys want to start a WikiProject to describe every single bureau of every single prefecture and county in China (~50 x ~5000 = 250000 new articles), then please go ahead. If I can start, say, Hulan County Forestry Department or Haidong Prefecture Education Bureau, and write a useless subsubstub article that goes "The Haidong Prefecture Education Bureau is located in Haidong, Qinghai, and is in charge of education there. [end]", and get away with it, then please keep this article too. But until you decide to do that, this article should be deleted. Unless, of course, if you support Sarcelles' agenda of POV-pushing that he has engaged in for over four months. -- ran (talk) 17:46, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per ran. Article creator is unreliable and this is a high risk to wikipedia's credibility. --Vsion 07:26, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per ran. --Miborovsky 07:31, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
• Keep It's useful. Joaquin Murietta 07:34, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
  • In what ways? Please tell me ONE piece of unbiased, factual knowledge you gained from this article, besides that there's a Public Security Bureau in Bengbu. --Miborovsky 22:48, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
    • That Zhang Lin is detained there.--Nicodemus75 23:02, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
      • You could have learned that from the Zhang Lin article. Are we going to start articles on Zhang Lin's hospital-of-birth and grade school as well? Perhaps the officers who arrested him? The sites where he was posting? How about his place of residence?
      • Is Zhang Lin the only piece of unique and useful information in the article? If so, then it should be deleted.-- ran (talk) 23:43, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
• Merge a neutral version into Bengbu and redirect. -- Kjkolb 08:47, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Public Security Bureaus in the PRC are inherently notable government institutions.--Nicodemus75 19:56, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Are they? Perhaps I should start an article on Lacey, WA Department of Motor Vehicles? In case you can't catch it, Public Security Bureaus are notable institutions, as is the DMV. But individual ones are not. --Miborovsky 22:48, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
  • How is the Bengbu PSB more notable than the dozens of other bureaus at the same level run by the government of Bengbu? Should we start articles on the Bengbu Education Bureau or the Bengbu Agriculture Bureau? And how are these dozens of bureaus in Bengbu more notable than literally hundreds of thousands of parallel bureaus run across the prefectures and counties of China? -- ran (talk) 23:43, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
• Merge as above by Kjkolb. Ciraric 20:08, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.