Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ansatsuken

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus. Flowerparty■ 22:14, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ansatsuken

Ansatsuken is simply a Japanese word for "Assassin Fist"; it is not a style. This whole article is based off someone's mistranslation.

Perhaps renaming this "Martial Arts of Street Fighter" or something could salvage this page. Evan1975 03:22, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

• I apologize if responses like these are breaking the format, but I'd like to point out that Shotokan Karate is not Ryu/Ken's style. It's a mistranslation. - Nickoten
  • Actually, in SF1, they originally listed Ryu as practicing a real world martial art called "Kyokushinkai". It's a mix of Goju-Ryu, Shotokan, and Judo(History of Kyokushinkai in the uk). In SF2, they changed it to the generic Ansatsuken. (Tiamat's Street Fighter Plot Guide)

--24.130.125.164 08:34, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

• DELETE, Ryu and Ken practiced SHOTOKAN...
• Keep , but you'll probably want to cite the Secret Files, All About Capcom books, etc as sources. Since this is the name given to their style I think it's legitimate. If someone wants to start an article for what ansatsuken really is, there could be a disamiguation page with this one being referenced as a fictional form of martial arts from Street Fighter. As also stated in Tiamat's plot guide, Hadou, Tatsumaki, and Shoryu are the key elements of the style, which would suggest that it was meant to be an original style rather than a generic name for what the characters practice. Their in-game normal/command attacks seem to incorporate different styles, but the specials always bank around the same set of techniques. So yes, I feel it is unique enough to keep this name. Again, though, we need the books cited. Also, perhaps we could name the page "Street Fighter Ansatsuken"? Or even maybe "Ansatsuken (Street Fighter schools)"? It should still turn up easily in a search for "Ansatsuken," right? I don't know what we'd do about links from other articles though. EDIT: I looked at the page for Ryu, and I noticed that both the Street Fighter videogames and Tiamat's plot guide (As well as the books he cites, indirectly) are listed as sources. I can only assume the creator of this article may do the same.- Nickoten 15:51, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Royboycrashfan 03:28, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom joshbuddy^talk 04:16, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
• Weak keep. Seems pretty detailed, but I'm concerned that a lot of it is original research. Gonna need to see some citations and sources before I give it a stronger opinion.--み使い Mitsukai 14:40, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, original research. If there's any verifiable information about this, it can be put in the main game article, I'd say. Ned Wilbury 14:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Mitsukai. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 16:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and WP:NOR.--Isotope23 17:05, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and WP:NOR. ¡Dustimagic! ^(T/C) 19:29, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep this article. There is too much information to just be deleted. I've referred to this article several times over the past few months. I would like it to stay provided it meets Wikipedia's requirements. 7 March 2006
• Keep but references are needed. - CNichols 22:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep if this is real, but if it remains unref'ed, delete it. Staxringold 23:06, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination. —-- That Guy, From That Show! ^(talk) 2006-03-08 02:54Z
• Weak Keep only if referenced, otherwise Delete per WP:NOR. Mallocks 20:14, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

• Keep I wrote the article. I am aware of the problem. The information comes strictly from Tiamat's Street Fighter Plot guide. However, very few Japanese fluent speakers bother to add information or verify. Unfortunately, I need a reference name for this martial art, which Capcom doesn't provide, so I just called it the generic "Ansatsuken". I know it is the equivalent of calling this "hand to hand combat" and saying it's a martial arts. The only option I had was Ansatsuken, which I admit wasn't a proper martial arts name, but I noted that at the beginning of the article. I did this mainly to archive the info from Tiamat's plot guide, which is the most info I've ever received about this game. -BB Mofo 10:16, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I can rewrite with the sources if necessary. If it requires a merge, fine, but merge with what? Tiamat suggested Ryu, but there are several other martial artists who study from Goutetsu's school. And I tried that before with cites, and someone took it out without reason (hence this article being created). They did the same with my Goutetsu and Gouken articles. Perhaps put this information into Goutetsu's article? Maybe change the article name to "Hado No Chikara", since Goutetsu definitely invented, or atleast found that? Really, "Ansatsuken" is what Capcom Japan call it in the instruction manuals and on their website. For lack of a better name, since Capcom of Japan doesn't want to give it a name, it's the only one I can think of. Also, I agree on taking out the technique lists (except for the original 6 techniques, and 3 elements) -BB Mofo 16:12, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
    • We have separate articles for Goutetsu and Gouken? We have a separate article for Shun Goku Satsu? Yikes. This article needs to be cleaned up with a chainsaw, and Goutetsu, Gouken, and much of the discussion of backstory and the Dark Hadou from the Ryu, Ken, Gen, and Sakura(!) articles needs to be merged here. (Also, Hadouken and Shoryuken need to be merged and dab'ed, and Shun Go-whatever needs to be merged to Akuma's article.) - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:29, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

• Strong merge and lose most of the OR and movelists. This is in bad need of cleanup and shouldn't be its own title, but there's stuff here worth saving. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:08, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Hm. There's a lot of disorganized info here, and this might not be a bad merge target. As such, I think this should be kept. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:29, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
• KEEP—Ryu, Ken, and Akuma are all practitioners of this martial art, though Akuma practices a more forbidden variation of it. Ryu nor Ken practices Shotokan Karate. — Dark Insanity 03:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Keep - This is valid material. Ryu and Ken clearly praticed the style outlined in this article and the game's clearly support this. When I learned of the reasoning for the porposed deletion of this article, I was horrfied. An discussion on the talkpage should have been made proceeding this action, and the user in favor of deletion should have done his homework. This is not an canidate for deletion.

On top of this, the user is extremely new to the way Wikipedia works. looking at this edit count, he has only ammased 272 edits, of which an mere 9 have been directed at talk. User has also not demonstrated an knowledgeable background in the series or wikipedia policy, as he has not contributed to any character pages or any discussion pertaining to them. Poor reasoning for deletion does not dictate what gets kept and what gets deleted. Wikipedia does. To attempt to pass off this article as an threat to the encyclopedia is a travesty. As for sources, please read Tiamat's Street Fighter Plot Guide for information.

Additionally, I'm pleased to confirm that Evan is incorrect. Mistranslations absolutely does not determine what is kept and what is not kept on Wikipedia. It's merely an fictional fighting style created by an company for an video game. Where there is disagreement (and there is clearly disagreement here) then it isn't much of a guide. Which is why we need discussion on talkpages before making hasty actions usch as this. The article is valid, and does not meet the Wikipedia:deletion policy. Please Evan, just read it. --Zero^Talk 12:10, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

• MOVE WP:NOR. The first line claims that "Ansatsuken" is a "fictional martial art... in the Street Fighter series". Which it isn't. Why don't I make an article that says "Boxing" is a fictional martial art practiced by Mike Bison, then? Furthermore, you have Gen listed in here when he practices a different style. (Two, actually.) Some fan on the net (Tiamat) is not a credible source. Please, show me where it says anything about "Ansatsuken" in the Japanese-language entry [1]. It doesn't. If mistranslations are OK, as you say, then the people claiming their style is "Shotokan" are more valid than Ansatsuken; "Shotokan" has been used in many more English publications. (Yes, it's wrong, too.) No, it is you who are incorrect, Megaman Zero. No specific style name has ever been given to Ryu, Ken, Gouki, etc. For the best official English-language source, try reading Street Fighter: Eternal Challenge. Nope, no "Ansatsuken" there either. If you rename it to something like "Gōtetsu-Ryū Ansatsuken" and take out the stuff about Gen I'll heartily endorse it. Evan1975 20:14, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh I've done all that. Please see the article's talkpage. -Zero^Talk

Great! But the name of the article needs to be moved to "Goutetsu Ansatsuken" or "Goutetsu-Ryu Ansatsuken. And the first line needs to be changed. See article's talkpage for my suggestion. Evan1975 19:50, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the book suggestion Evan. I've gone ahead and ordered the book for myself. I'll hold off on rewriting the article until I can thumb through it. If it's really that indepth, we can use it to check the accuracy of the other SF articles. Now that we've agreed to correct the mistakes you were concerned about, can we please remove the DELETE tag for now? There's nothing too controversial about this article so far beyond the name.--24.130.125.164 03:35, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Keep - This is valid material.--Dangerous-Boy 19:20, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

• Evan has posted an requested admeddeum on my talkpage. Anyone interested is free to take an gander, as I have agreed and implemented his requested change to the article. -Zero^Talk 06:15, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

As such I think its time to withdraw this afd nomination. -Zero^Talk 19:23, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.