Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amarna Letters EA 19(Tushratta)

This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 13:24, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Amarna Letters EA 19(Tushratta) plus ...

Amarna Letters Dictionary Global, No. 1, Amarna Letters EA 205(Mayor of Tubu), Amarna Letters EA 245(Biridiya,No.4), Amarna Letters EA 296(Yahtiru), Amarna Letters EA 299(Yapahu), Amarna Letters EA 330, Sumerograms, No.1, in EA Letters and Category:Transliterations.

This clearly has something to do with the translation of ancient Egyptian documents - or at least one ancient Egyptian document - so I'm loathe to speedy it as nonsense. However, it's way too incoherent to be salvaged as an article. At best, it would contain the translation of an ancient Egyptian document, and notes on how it was translated; if anyone's interested, it could go on Wikisource instead. DS 17:36, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

The background is explained in Amarna letters. -- RHaworth

• Keep. Just needs cleanup. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-15 03:02
• Transwiki. (By this I mean move to another Wikipedia project, & delete.) I appreciate the work the original contributor is doing, but it's unfortunately not appropriate for Wikipedia -- but these contributions would be very welcome at Wikisource, Wikibooks or split between them. -- llywrch 23:31, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
• How does one do a gentle delete? Certainly we must wait until the author, Michael McAnnis has copied his work off and notified us here. I have put a note on this talk page encouraging Michael to go independant with this stuff. It has very much an original research feel which would make it unwelcome on Wikibooks/source. Sadly the quality, although it is improving, is still not very high - all the articles look and read as rather chaotic. It should not make any difference, but Michael's reluctance to create an account also weighs against him in my view. -- RHaworth 11:25:42, 2005-08-21 (UTC)

Notes. I have only today put VfD tags on six of the items, so I am moving this debate forward a week. Also we need to see a few more votes. Strictly the Category should go through CfD but since no-one else has used it, I think we can list it here. -- RHaworth 11:25:42, 2005-08-21 (UTC)

• Comment - if transwiki is not an option (and it seems that it isn't), then why not userfy for now - on the understanding that this cannot be a long-term solution. It gets it out of the article space without immediately destroying well intentioned work --Doc (?) 16:53, 21 August 2005 (UTC) OK, just delete then --Doc (?) 00:59, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Where do we userfy to? He has not created an account. -- RHaworth 00:55, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment There is disconcerting lack of context, making it hard to know what to make of this. I will vote Delete if the original author is unwilling to provide explicative justification for this entry. Dottore So 19:14, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete This is original research without citation to any authoritative source in the field. I'd like ot assume good faith here, but that does not change the fact that the editor has been unable to communicate clearly with RHaworth after several very clear and helpful exchanges. -Harmil 22:35, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
• Agree with Harmil, and delete. Expand the main article instead. Radiant_>|< 10:21, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep for now (for people a little into the thing, it's notable enough). I too would opt for userfy and left the {{anon}} template on the userpage, and I especially don't agree with the OR mentioned above; he's just trying to make (literal)translations. The problem is that the author picked some of the less important letters/treaties (the hittite/egyptian peace treaty after the battle of Kadesh would have been a better start). It reads just so awkward because it's difficult to translate cuneiform and hieroglyhs into modern languages. E.g., the name Hattusili (thats hittite), if written in cuneiform and literally translated would become somthing like gispasidingirlim (so you write gispasidingirlim and read Hattusili) Lectonar 12:29, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

• Pedantic, OT question for Lectonar. A long time ago, I took a class on Hittite, & from what I remember your example about "Hattusili" actually being "gispasidingirlim" doesn't make sense. Are those the original Sumeric values of the cuneiform characters? If so, wouldn't it be more accurate to represent "gispasidingirlim" as (guessing here) "GIŠ-PAS-IDIN-GIR-LIM", or something similar? But I do agree with your point, that the spelling in these ancient documents can be problematic; it is fascinating to compare how the names of well-known Egyptian pharaohs are transliterated into cuneiform with their spelling in the native Egyptian texts, e.g. "Wasmuaria satepnareya" (cuneiform) with "Usermaatra Setepenra Rameses" (Egyptian), suggesting that the scribes fossilized Egyptian spelling much as has been done in modern English or French. -- llywrch 19:26, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

At a second thought, as he has created no account so far, could we just move it into temp articles to let him work it out a little. I'm very reluctant to have this deleted, as it's so very difficult to come across someone who likes to devote energy to the these topics Lectonar 12:36, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

• There is no point in trying to use anon user pages - he is using AOL and will come in with a different IP address every session. He has commented on Talk:Amarna Letters Dictionary Global, No. 1 in the past. Let us hope he does so now. -- RHaworth 09:33:33, 2005-08-23 (UTC)
• You're obviously right here, I used the wrong approach. BTW, how do you know he's using AOL?If push comes to shove, I would be willing to take them in on user-subpage(s) to be created (that leaves the problem: How does he know I've done this? Plus, it's not really my area of expertise (or I would have done something already). And I know about at least 50 books in german translation which incorporate the Amarna letters, so he's got way to go. If all else fails, I would rescind my keep vote, but for the moment let's just give him a little more time....Lectonar 09:46, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

• How do I know? I use NetInfo which you need to download. But the whois article has links to online services. -- RHaworth 17:07:37, 2005-08-24 (UTC)

• Comment: Why not delete for now, the info will still be available to you admins - so nothing is irretrievably lost. If the user returns and wants his work, it can be e-mailed to him. If he is willing to supply context, then we can VfU. Delete, without prejudice to a later revival. --Doc (?) 09:49, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Delete. Might belong in some other wiki, if author or authors want to start it there. Gene Nygaard 20:54, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete (original research) -- < drini | ∂drini > 19:15, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.