Talk:Art intervention

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[edit] Non-referenced material

I have removed the following new addition. It needs a verifiable reference if it is to remain in the article.

In February 2005 Jewish artist, Lennie Lee, was censored for exhibiting a piece called "Judensau"(Jewpig) in Treptow Town Hall gallery, Berlin. The authorities were forced to take the piece down thereby breaking German laws governing art censorship in the process. The piece attracted considerable attention in the media. Lee offered to remove his Judensau on condition that a 14th century sculpture of a Judensau was removed from the side of Martin Luther's church in Wittenburg. Martin Luther, in addition to founding the Lutheran church was a well-known anti-semite and is thought to have had considerable influence on Nazi ideas such as the setting up of the concentration camps.

Tyrenius 18:07, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

If you need a verifiable reference see below
External Links:
Also the March 2005 issue of Konkret page 42. This magazine has existed 32 years and is one of the most revered political magazines in Germany. Ulrike Meinhof used to write for it in the 70s.
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konkret


Also read "The Jews and their lies" by Martin Luther. It advocates many of the crimes committed by the Nazis during their period in power.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by :86.143.153.212 (talk • contribs) .

Did Lee put his work in the town hall without asking or was it part of a scheduled exhibition? If the latter, then it wasn't an art intervention, just a controversial work. Tyrenius 16:39, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

That isn't quite correct. The exhibition was scheduled to show the work of a group of artists working in Germany. At the last moment Lee's work was added.

It was an intervention organised by the other artists working in the show who claimed (incorrectly) Lee was one of them.

Lee's work was designed to put the institution into a difficult position. If they left it up they would be accused of anti-semitism by their opponents. Also, if they took the work down, the neo-Nazis might have asked for the right to disseminate racist literature.

On the other hand, if they took the work down, they would be illegally censoring the work of a Jewish artist dealing with anti-semitic stereotypes. Catch 22

Lee is well-known in Berlin art circles for his interventions. In 1994 he made a hoax poster inviting people to a party in the gas-chamber of a concentration camp. It ended up as front page news. 100 police turned up for a non-existent party.

See Tage-zeitung 01/08/1994

Surely this constitutes an art intervention? 86.143.153.212 23:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.143.153.212 (talk • contribs) .

I think the explanation you give above needs to be included in the article. Preferably referenced. If you put the reference in the main text as in this example, it generates footnote automatically:

<ref name=perry>[http://arts.guardian.co.uk/turnerprize2003/story/0,,1102084,00.html "Turner Prize Goes to Perry – and Claire", The Guardian, December 8, 2003] Retrieved March 22, 2006</ref> .

Note space after html and before "Turner". If you have a problem then put the reference link in the main text with just one square bracket either end of the plain URL, as in: [http://arts.guardian.co.uk/turnerprize2003/story/0,,1102084,00.html ]

If you put 4 tildes ~ after an entry on this talk page, it signs your name and date automatically.
Tyrenius 19:05, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice. Not quite sure about the nowiki business. Perhaps you can help me with it? I will rewrite the section as follows:

[edit] Lennie Lee, c.2005

In February 2005 Jewish artist, Lennie Lee, was censored for exhibiting a piece called "Judensau"(Jewpig) in Treptow Town Hall gallery, Berlin. The intervention was organised by the other artists working in the show who claimed (incorrectly) Lee was one of them. Lee's work was designed to put the institution in a difficult position. If they left it on the wall they would be accused of anti-semitism by their opponents. On the other hand, if they took the work down, they would be illegally censoring the work of a Jewish artist dealing with anti-semitic stereotypes. Catch 22. The authorities were forced to take the piece down, thereby, breaking German laws governing art censorship in the process. The piece attracted considerable attention from the media. Lee offered to remove his "Judensau" on condition that a 14th century sculpture of a "Judensau" was removed from the side of Martin Luther's church in Wittenburg. Martin Luther, in addition to founding the Lutheran church was a well-known anti-semite. His boo "The Jews and their lies" is thought to have had considerable influence on Nazi ideas including the setting up of the concentration camps.

see External Links:


86.143.153.212 23:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tracey Emin

I think the section on Tracey Emin is worthy of removal:

Firstly, she does not see her action as art. Secondly, getting drunk on TV is hardly worthy of mention. Thirdly, art intervention is not typical of her oeuvre.

This does not give a good idea of what art intervention is about. The 'K' foundation offering money to the Turner Prize winner Rachel Whiteread is a better example. Mark McGowan's media manipulation is also more typical.

86.143.153.212 23:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I put it in because it illustrates the importance of artist definition. If she had stated it was art, then it would have been seen as art. Certainly in the UK it was a significant media event, boosted her career immensely and is still frequently referred to as a milestone, and it is something of a grey area as to whether it is or isn't art, especially as there is the notion that the artist's life is art (particulary in her case). The whole "art intervention" thing can't have an article, unless there is coverage, with examples, of the debate that is integral to it about when something is art, who defines it as such etc. Tyrenius 18:05, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Christoph Schlingensieff

Christoph Schlingensieff, the Berlin theatre director, is worth a mention also

86.143.153.212 23:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Martin Luther

I have removed this about the effect of Luther's ideas on the Nazis: "including the setting up of the concentration camps", unless there is a specific reference, if it is wished to retain it. If the mention is in the cited newspapers, then fine, but I don't read German that well. I'm not sure if it's necessary anyway, but have no objection as long as it's got a verifiable source. Tyrenius 17:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

86.143.153.212 23:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

For Martin Luther's anti-semitism see


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