Talk:Arnold Murray
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It is very strange that Arnold Murray should draw 'haters' like this and the article flips back and forth between a reasonable article and an article written by people that have an axe to grind. Other televangalists preach money only, and have secular interpretations of the Bible but the articles on them do not flip back and forth like this one.
If you have something factual to add to the article then do it. If you just do not like the man then open your own web page and add it to the external links at the bottom of the article. Stop using Wikipedia as your own little forum for espousing hate.
It is too bad that people use this forum here to spread hate. The earlier articles on Arnold Murray which listed his beliefs and some of the controversies were fine, but the current article looks like it is from someone or group of people who have an axe to grind. Too bad.
Christian Identity Movement not racist? Huh? Danny 06:41 Feb 22, 2003 (UTC)
There is always that 10% who will take a part of a truth and use it to espouse hate. But what of those who do not espouse hate? Should they be categorized along with the wicked? Many of them have been. More info. PEvans 5:51 PM 11/11/03
I'm very confused. How does "lets just stick to studying God's word." equate with discussion of the terms "Reverend" and "tribes"? It's obvious he does more. I notice that, though he doesn't like Reverend, he isn't unhappy to be called Pastor. RickK 04:57, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Sometimes Pastor Murray is called "Reverend" and he responds. He says only God should be reverenced. The Tribes are mentioned all throughout the Bible. The word "Pastor" in the Hebrew means to tend the flock, i.e. to feed them. That is what he does in teaching God's word. PEvans 11:22 PM 01/08/04
[edit] My Thoughts on Shepherd's Chapel
I have studied with Shepherd's Chapel for a few years and like others, I was not sure about what I read on the internet. Arnold Murray does seem to attract a lot of critics. One web page said the white flag behind him is a symbol and signal to the KKK. A user asked a question about it and he said it is a Marine Corp. flag used when church is in service.
- Ah, excuse me. The Marine Corps flag is RED, not white. Therefore, the idea that it's a KKK flag still is valid, althought I have not viewed/seen the white flag in question in any of Murray's broadcasts. Will look more carefully next time.
-
- Not the Marine Corp flag, the religious service flag used inside a Marine Corp church which Arnold Murray says signifies, 'church is in service'.
I understand that people are going to disagree about the bible but many seem to do it thru hate. He does teach all the things mentioned like serpent seed, the trinity, etc. He is not a racist in the sense that one race is superior to another and he has stated that God loves all the races equally in the question and answer portion of his show.
Some people see his teaching style as abrasive but I find it refreshing and I think he is funny.
I have heard the tape about the gun incident, he said he expects people to be quiet when God's word is being taught or they will be escorted out. While teaching, someone yells 'Heresy!' and then 'take ur hands off me' and you can hear some kind of scuffling. Arnold Murray says, 'out of here' then says 'take this 9 mm to that boy'. I do not think 'boy' was intended as racist, I heard my builder tell one of his workers, 'get a boy over here to do this' and I know he is not racist.
He also teaches British Israelism which is different from Christian Identity. Christian Identity is one level below KKK or Aryan Nation, etc.
The question in my mind in terms of race is he believes in the law which talks about a mamzar, or a person of mixed race. Back then, I think it was used to mean someone who marries outside the Hebrew community. So, if he met a couple, husband and wife, one black, one white, and they had kids. I think he would have an issue with that or I guess I question if he would have an issue with that situation.
Overall, his bible teachings are excellent, and I can do my own research and decide if I agree or not agree with him. In fact, he encourages each of us to do our own research and not just go with traditions of men.
[edit] Misconception
I've read a lot about the Christian Identity movement, and I have indeed seen racists espouse Arnold Murray's beliefs. That does not make Arnold Murray, or even his teaching necessarily, racist. They are in fact just older interpretations of the Bible that have fallen by the wayside for more "politically correct" messages. The 'serpent seed' is not a new doctrine, and in fact is easily supported in the Hebrew texts.
It should also be noted that Arnold Murray flatly denies racism (I have heard it from his mouth several times), and preaches that all God's children are equal and have salvation available to them. I also know many people who have come to Christianity through him, even if they don't believe every intricate Bible teaching Murray offers.
In light of the man's works in the Church, he should be respected for the Bible scholar he is. Doesn't the Bible say there in black and white (or red, if you will) that true teachings would be perverted?
Don't be so ready to believe every website you believe (even this one!) Find out for yourself.
I think we need to rewrite this to make it a little more un-bias. Too many opinions are stated without proof. Stick to the facts about this man.
- I'm watching Arnold Murray right now, and he is devoting an entire episode to the subject of the mound builder native american tribe of Ohio, and their "holy stones" and mounds. The tone is completely positive, suprisingly non-ethnocentric in its praise of the mounds and those who built them. Remarkably, interviews 2 gentlemen, one of them on site out on a mound, the first time I've seen him outside of his studio. There is some suggestion that the mound buildres may have been ancient jews, however ;) (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 20:20, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
[edit] moved to talk
It has has been suggested he has admirers who are associated with the white-supremacist Christian Identity movement, although he vigorously asserts that he has no association with them or any group.
- Who suggests this? All I can find is other churchs attacking him (mainly as a heretic) and joke sites which are amused about the gun incident. He's on tv 24hrs a day in some places, and every night/morning in many more, so plenty of those who arn't members of his church are quite familiar with him. I've never heard of any Christian identity tie-ins. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 00:39, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Does not teach the traditional view of the Trinity?
I do not believe this is true, as on several occaisions I have heard him correct people who say this in letters to the show. Is there a quote of him saying that he does not teach the traditional view of the Trinity? If anyone objects, you can just revert my removal.
Also, I have never heard him teach that Satan had sex with Eve, either. --208.54.94.89 10:51, 17 May 2005 (UTC) I have hear either him (or one of his lackys) Say that Adam was not Cains father and that Cains father was the...."dark one?". It's clear he thinks Satan had sex with Eve.
- If you have never heard him teach that Satan had sex with Eve, you have not listened to him. But I should point out he dosen't teach that; Gods word teaches that. He just reads the word.
Genesis ch.3 v.13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, "The serpent BEGUILED me, and I did eat". v.15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy SEED and her seed;It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel. II. Corinthians ch.11 v.2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. v.3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent BEGUILED Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible 1818 (Greek Dictionary) exapatao,ex-ap-at-ah'-o; from 1537 and 538; to seduce wholly:-beguile, deceive. My question to everyone is how do you lose your virginity?
- He definitely teaches the Serpent seed doctrine. The trinity bit I'm not sure on. Sam Spade 09:13, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
- He teaches the Trinity (The Father, Son and Holy Spirt)
[edit] Untrue statement
"He feels the bible is not against violence of any sort"
Any proof to this statement? Quote? I have rewritten it to say "He believes that the Bible supports the Death Penalty for murderers and rapists."
- Well, he is a former marine, famously pulled a gun on a heckler, and encouraged his audience to physically remove the man. That would seem to infer he opposes pacifism ;) Sam Spade 10:13, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
- He has said many times that if you witness to someone and overload their donkey and they slap you, turn the other cheek. However, if someone is physically attacking you or slaps you for other reasons, then deck him. To quote him, 'christians are not supposed to be wimps'.
All we have is a sound. Was the man doing something also? Do you know? Listen to the background noise next time. His last statement is obviously to one person, does he have a one-person audience? Nowhere did he encourage his "audience" (implying everybody there?) to remove the man.
- While Gods word is being taught, everyone is to be quiet.
[edit] fact
He both believes and has helped spread the Urban Legend that scientists have discovered a "missing" day in time that corresponds to the Bible's account of the sun's standing still. + (5/5/2005)
I saw either him or one of his lackys say this on the show ok?
He said it on a show while teaching Joshua. He said he got a letter from someone that he trusts that said NASA found Joshua's missing day then he moved on quickly. If you go to the NASA website, they have an article about it and say the story has been passed around since the 60's and is not true.
[edit] Picture
Can somebody upload an image we can use? ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 02:09, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "Christian protester" vs "heckler"
Was this person a member of the audience? --pile0nadestalk | contribs 03:44, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, but not a member of his congregation, apparently. There is plenty of info on it if you poke around online, it was a bit of a media sensation at the time. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 13:32, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
- Well, I typed in "Arnold Murray" on Google News and 0 hits. Do you have a link to a news story? --pile0nadestalk | contribs 21:28, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Try regular google, and maybe the word "gun". Here is an audio file of the incident [1]. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 21:52, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Examine what you hear...
After "blasphemy" was shouted, Pastor Murray continues, "to the word...and uh...so...uh...we'll...".
He tried to ignore the man!
So tell me, what was the man doing? Was he approaching Pastor Murray in a threatening manner? Do we know?
I'll simplify the question: "Were you there?"
The man also said, "Keep your hands off me!" Now, why on earth would the man have to be physically removed? What was he doing?
Satan has cast the spirit of selective hearing upon a great multitude, so that not only do they accuse Pastor Murray of everything under the sun, but so that they couldn't hear a drum solo in the midst of a kazoo quartet
Now, did Jesus kill anybody with His whip? Did Pastor Murray say, "Here, shoot the boy"? Look at what a priest of God did once, after 20,000 Isrealites had died:
(Num 25:6-8) And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. {7} And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; {8} And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel.
Gee. After something like that, a gun escort doesn't seem so bad, does it. You might even wish you had a gun escort, as opposed to being the next "hotdog on a skewer".
What am I trying to say? Be sweet.
- Do you have an image we can use? I'd appreciate it if you uploaded one. thanks, Sam Spade 00:43, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Misc.
For disclosure purposes, I will say that I've been studying with Shepherd's Chapel for about four years, but I would not say that I agree with absolutely everything they teach. With that said, when I came across this article, I saw many loaded words and phrasing. I can appreciate that this article, much like many other religious articles, are contentious on this site. The fact this article has been flagged for cleanup confirms this. I felt compelled to uphold the spirit of this site by removing the loaded wording. I have also tried my best to remove comparisons to other religious groups. As Joe Friday used to say, "just the facts," and I agree with that philosophy here. Many of Arnold Murray's beliefs and teachings can be summarized without unnecessary comparisons to other organizations. Also, many statements here were inconsistent with what I have come to know watching the program regularly. Where statements appeared partially consistent, I've corrected them. Where I could not confirm or deny, I left alone. I've done my best to retain others' contributions and correct the issues mentioned earlier.
[edit] moved from article page, reported by whom?
I moved this from the article to talk:
- It has also been reported that he has dated Loretta Lynn for a number of years.
Reported by whom? Can we document this? I'd prefer not to place this in the article without corroboration, it sounds to much like rumor or innuendo.
[edit] TRUTH ABOUT A. MURRAY
Pastor Arnold Murray is a CHRISTAIN televangelistwho studies as deep as the manuscripts and other well received supporting materials though he teaches from the King James Companion Bible. His mission is to drive you to read and study the Bible yourself!!!
His hourly study presentations are divided into nearly equal parts--half reading the Bible word by word, half answering questions from a stack received daily on his call-in line and letters mailed to Arkansas. He is the Pastor of the Shepherd's Chapel located in Gravette, Arkansas. I have personally gone to see the Chapel in the very remote city of Gravette TO SEE IF this was one of those irresponsible fake, money inclined ministries. TO MY DELIGHT I SAW A HUMBLE PLACE WITH NORMAL RURAL PEOPLE COMING OUT OF THE BUILDING WHERE THE TEACHING TAKES PLACE. Though I missed (twice) the actual services and TV Broadcasting (because it is so far out in the rural area), I did go in to see what the place looked like and you couldn't be more surprised at the down to earth, minimal embellished buildings and interiors. This is not a ministry of one who is trying to take advantage of anyone. This is the real thing!
Pastor Murray has broadcast his low budget verse by verse and chapter by chapter, read along King James version on the bottom of the screen, Bible readings since 1985. Sometimes he will air his teachings which are recorded in the services at the Chapel and sometimes he will air supporting documentries which are fascinating. If ever you felt confused by reading the Bible, or felt lost and outright unable to understand what God's word says, this would be the right teacher for you. I am not connected with the ministry in any way except that I was out to prove him to be another of those know it all types looking for money, but I have found egg on my face...because I now have confidence in that I understand what's going on and can read the Bible with understanding!
Shepherd's Chapel INC. buys time on numerous independent television stations all around the USA, often in late night or early morning hours. He is also seen in several nations of the world.
Interestingly, for some reason, there was an influx of false reports about his ministry, teachings, beliefs, and more. Some people, incluuding the person who made the first report on Pastor Murray here, have attempted to blemish his integrity by writing false reports. Some of the previous information which I knew to be false, I have removed and relaced with first hand knowledge afer studying the program for two years, every day it showed, three to four hours daily at a minimum and up to 8 hours as I listened to the broadcasts twice.
Pastor Murray is distinguished from other televagelists (Though in 2005-2006 several known TBN brodcasted pastors have begun to lean his direction), in that he teaches chapter by chapter, verse by verse, helping the understanding of the entirety of God's word by Bible given (provable)information filling in the previous known and very important history and Jewish traditions, referring to actual translations from the Concordance where obvious mistranslations have made it into the King James Bible.
His biblicaly provable teaching that "Kenites" (Definition, sons of Cain) are the actual, physical sons of Cain--Satan and Eve's conception resulting in the birth of Cain Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. as Jesus himself states to the false Priests who had made their way into the Priesthood amoung the true priests,(Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.) to the sons of Cain (Kenites) who the bible reports slipped in to be scribes, 1Sa 15:6 And Saul said unto the Kenites, Go, depart, get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them: for ye shewed kindness to all the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt. So the Kenites departed from among the Amalekites. 1Ch 2:55 And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab. ,as well as Genesis.
- Praise Yahueh! Pastor Arnold Murray has brought me to the light. I came here to find criticisms of Murray and all I get is a link to a christian identity nazi website full of lies. Fortunately for me, I did lots of research on Ruby Ridge in past, so the lies on the page were easy to spot. Randy Weaver was never a Nazi or associated with a Nazi group, a government agent tricked him to go to a meeting he had no idea it was a white supremacist meeting it was a set-up. This page just confirms that I need to listen to Pastor Murray more often. The nazi link and ties to Murray are unjustified and the link should be removed! newguy 15:50, 17 Apr 2006 (UTC)
[edit] two cents of a former Murray listener
As a former listener to Arnold Murray who knows what he teaches fairly thoroughly I have to say this wikipedia article (as of June 6, 2006) is actually rather accurate and unusually fair for internet articles on Arnold Murray. My two cents... Christaan T. 00:46, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- Agreed. I was expecting a biased article one way or the other, but this one gives fair attention to to the views of both his supporters and his detractors. The only thing I noticed that I would change is the mention of Dennis as "a worthy substitute for his dad." That does not sound like an encyclopedia entry. D S 23:31, 10 June 2006 (UTC)DS
[edit] Edits
Edited a bad nowiki> tag at the beginning of the article. Also corrected the misconception that Murray does not teach the Trinity; he has stated on numerous occaisions, mostly in reply to mailed questions, that he absolutely does. He is somewhat modalist though (Father, Son, and HS are all God in different "modes").
[edit] discernment
I watch the Shepherd's Chapel on television pretty frequently. The man teaches The Trinity; not modalism. I have seen many references to this most inaccurate label of blasphemy on several web sites and it simply is not true.
He has said that Cain is not in Adam's geneology -- and has said that it was Satan's seduction of Eve which resulted in his birth. I suppose the 'Serpent Seed' label is appropriate but I have never heard him use it. He does use the word Kenite to describe the 'Sons of Cain' and he backs these statements with specific references to scripture.
The bulk of the criticisms I read involve disagreement with what is said vis a vis literal interpretation of what is written in The Word.
Arnold Murray also teaches discernment. He espouses cultivation of an ability to experience an interpretation then make up your own mind on the matter and never stands in judgement of others; as so many critics have stood in judgement of him.
You cannot take the Bible in a strictly literal sense due to the translations as well as idioms, colloquialisms, and other figures of speech of the period in time -- as well as the locale at which it was written.
Much ridicule of his teachings have turned out to be based on somebody interpreting literally when a figurative reference is made -- or worse when a reference is misinterpreted.
He never actively solicits donations to his ministry and frequently admonishes people to never tithe or make offerings that adversely affect their finances. He does have tapes, CDs, and books for sale -- but so do other ministers on television. I haven't bought any of the tapes or CDs but I have bought a book or two.
Some of his language does border on coarse; but there by the grace of God go I.
I don't necessarily agree with everything Arnold Murry teaches but find him to be an honest and refreshing oasis of realism in religion today.
As for those who would disagree; there comes a time when all will be known and judgement is not ours. Being incorrect is not a sin. Bearing the false witness of blasphemy is. I'm not perfect, just forgiven.
[edit] Murray's Response to Critics
- [moved from article]
I make it a policy to never mention individual denominations, groups or single out individuals by name; however since 1991 several so called "Christian Research" organizations have willingly quoted each others's falsehoods and labels, without direct research, until they are blindly printing outright lies. This has gone on long enough now that I have categorized some glaring examples of such inaccuracies to facilitate making a clear Biblical response. I am not writing this document because I seek nor want any organization's endorsement, but I wish to point out these inaccuracies for intelligent Bible students who love to study God's Word. The Shepherd's Chapel Network now has millions of serious Bible students who study daily with us. It is because I love each of you who desire a deeper study into our Father's Word that I feel I owe this response to you and especially to new students of the Shepherd's Chapel.
I also should point out to those not familiar with the Shepherd's Chapel that we are completely independent; therefore we are not affiliated with any other church, denomination or group. As a matter of record, the only group of which I am a member is with the "Chosin Few" which is a group of Korean War veterans comprised of various military factions who fought in one of the more famous battles of that war. I am very proud to have served as a U.S. Marine in this severe winter battle in which approximately 12,000 of our troops faced a massive surprise attack by an estimated 120,000 of the Chinese communist enemy. Although suffering many casualties, the Marines and our British allies inflicted far more damage to the Chinese and were able to ultimately escape (with our dead and injured) from the Chosin Reservoir where we were at a grave disadvantage. Despite being wounded I survived this war because, I believe, the Lord had further plans and a purpose for my life. I have never forgotten the discipline of the U.S. Marine Corps and the lessons learned in war. If I teach like a Marine DI (Drill Instructor) it is with love because I know first hand the value of well educated and trained troops. In fact the root word behind the word "disciples" is "discipline". The Bible frequently uses military terms to convey how we must prepare to face spiritual warfare. As Christians our ultimate enemy is not "flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, to wit we must put on the whole armour of God" (Ephesians 6:10-19).
I believe many of the inaccurate perceptions of what I teach at the Shepherd's Chapel could be resolved quickly if those interested would simply request our "Statement of Faith" which has been freely available for many years. If you have not already requested it I would encourage you to do so. But perhaps the best way to evaluate what I teach is to simply listen for a while. One thing you will quickly notice is that I like to field questions which in my opinion is a fine way for the listener to test what is being taught. Since the beginning of my Bible teaching ministry, over 50 years ago, I have always insisted on taking questions from the congregation. This important part of teaching ensures that everyone has an opportunity to ask key questions, then hear and judge the knowledge of the teacher for themselves. Now let's take a look at some of the usual points of criticism that some of these so-called "Christian Research" people seem to steal from one another in their rush to reproduce lies against myself and the Shepherd's Chapel.
The Trinity or Godhead
I teach YHVH ("I Am That I Am" and Hebrew for the Sacred Name of God), Yahshua (Hebrew for God's Saviour Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. When you speak the Truth it is the Holy Spirit manifesting Himself through you. Matthew 10:20 explicitly says "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." The meaning, of course, refers to the Holy Spirit as in Mark 13:11 which notes, "but when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do you premeditate; but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost (Spirit)." I make no apology for teaching the Godhead in this manner, and I certainly do not need an endorsement or approval or further interpretation of my words from any man or group of research witch hunters.
Also, I have never taught that men were little gods. It would be a lie for someone to say so. I do teach all souls were created by our Father. A Christian that would not teach this fact would have a big problem with Scripture. Example: Jeremiah 1:5 says, "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Another example: Ephesians 1:4 says, "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world." Recommended additional study lectures on audio cassette tape:
- 574, "Nature of God, El Shaddai
- 417, "Elect"
Racism
To say that I teach racism or practice racism is another outright lie. We have people of all races that attend and study with the Shepherd's Chapel. It is very simple to prove this statement. We televise our annual Passover meetings including video interviews of many of the thousands who attend. Order a video tape of any of these interviews and you will see people of all races which effectively documents the falseness of any charges that I teach racism (a sample of Passover Interviews is also offered at the end of this document). God's Word directly teaches that our Heavenly Father created all the races and that it was good, (Genesis 1:27-28, 31). People of all nations and races shall be in the Temple of the Lord throughout eternity (Revelation 21:22-27).
Serpent Seed
What about teaching Serpent Seed? I make no apology for teaching the Word of God. In Matthew 13, our Lord and Saviour explains the Parable of the Sower directly to His disciples. He is very explicit about exactly who the sower of the bad seed really is. Matthew 13:37-39 states, "He (Jesus) answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."
Let no one tell you Christ was speaking in a parable here for He was carefully explaining to His disciples the real meaning of the parable He had previously spoken to the multitude. He talked with them in private, and He used language that a child could understand. Christ's teaching of the seed of the devil (or serpent) was nothing new, it was taught from the beginning of Scripture - Genesis.
In Genesis 3:15 God is speaking to the serpent, "and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shall bruise his heel." The bruising of the heel took place when Christ was nailed to the Cross. And finally, for those who still want further proof as to who the serpent really is; we read in Revelation 12:9, "and the great Dragon was cast out, that old Serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world." Now can anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear have any doubt or confusion about Satan's own seed? Recommended additional study lectures on audio cassette tape:
- 146, "Genesis, Chapters 1-6"
- 461, "Seed of the Serpent"
Kenites
What about the use of the word Kenites? It is a Hebrew word that has only one meaning, "sons of Cain." It does not mean Judah. The word Kenite cannot be translated Judah and is never used of Judah. Anyone saying that I use the word to describe Judah is not telling the truth; it would be a lie, because I have never said this. Recommended additional study lecture on audio cassette tape:
- 436, "Kenites"
Exclusive Messenger
Some "researchers" say that I claim to be God's exclusive messenger for this era. I have never thought this, much less claimed it. Such a claim is another outright lie. Those "researchers" cannot prove it because I have never said this. A Christian would not think of making up lies about someone, so how should we label these "Christian Researchers?"
Doctorate of Religious Education
I have never claimed to have received a doctorate from Roy Gillaspie. I do not know where some of these "researchers" came up with this. Roy Gillaspie was simply a beloved teacher of God's Word and I have never said or implied any such thing. It is true that I have a policy of not publicly stating where I earned my doctorate because then "critics" cannot judge me by association. I have always publicly stated that my credentials are my ability to teach God's Word. To the extent that our Heavenly Father blesses me with the ability to clearly teach His Word then what higher ordination could there be?
Summary
In today's world we need to be vigilant for those who would sow seeds of doubt concerning what God's Word actually says. There is nothing wrong with honest disagreement, this does not entitle one to spread outright lies. Acts 17 provides an example of an honest disagreement when Paul disputed with other Apostles in Jerusalem whether circumcision was necessary for salvation. Galatians 2 offers a second witness to the fact that although there was honest disagreement at the beginning of this meeting there was still fellowship at the end. It may also be surprising to note that this disagreement occurred perhaps 16 years after Yahshua's resurrection. And note that all the problems arose because "certain men from Judea" wanted to stir up discord among Christians by spreading the lie that unless Gentiles were circumcised like them they could not have salvation. In other words they denied salvation through Yahshua alone. The Lord hates those who sow discord among brethren (Proverbs 6:16-19).
Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit gives us good advice in II Timothy 2:15-16 when he says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. But shun profane and vain babblings for they will increase unto more ungodliness." Let us never be afraid to study together in Christian fellowship in a positive way with an earnest heart felt desire to uncover the Truth of God's Word. Our Heavenly Father has chosen not to give us all Truth and Knowledge on a silver platter. He expects us to study His Word and search out what is true (Proverbs 25:2). Paul also tells us the Bereans set a good example for all Christians as "they received the Word with all readiness of mind and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so". (Acts 17:11).
At the Shepherd's Chapel we study God's Word in a unique verse by verse, chapter by chapter and Book by Book methodology. We don't leave anything out. We hold daily Bible classes on a college level which are freely available to all. I frequently caution all listeners not to believe what any man may teach you unless you first check them out directly from God's Word which is unchanging. You will never go wrong by encouraging daily Bible study which allows the spirit to grow ever stronger in knowledge, wisdom and in discernment.
So to those who desire to join the millions of Shepherd's Chapel listeners who enjoy studying God's Word I welcome you. If you disagree with me, that is quite alright. All I ask is that you be honest in disagreement and careful to document your beliefs. I'll always respect honest disagreement.
Our Heavenly Father has a divine purpose for each of His children. You need to stay in His Word and discover yours. May YHVH Bless each and everyone of you in your deeper study into His Word.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.200.116.197 (talk • contribs) .
[edit] Rewrite?
This article seems acceptable in its near absence of bias, but I still think it needs a major rewrite, in part because of several subtle inaccuracies, but also because it fails to mention a number of important points regarding Arnold Murray's (and his son's) teaching (and unusual ways of teaching).
Regarding racism, I've heard them mention on the show that the countries that visit the Shepherd's Chapel website the most are, in order, the US, Canada, and China. And they seem positively thrilled about that. I'm not sure how a racist, white-anglo-saxon-centered church could possibly be happy about Chinese (gasp!) people visiting their website. Murray does seem to believe in British-Israelism but I don't think this is enough to warrant association with the Christian Identity movement. This mention should probably be replaced with "is a non-denominational Bible teacher".
In other news, I already changed "earthage" to "Earth age" in the article, because honestly that's a pretty silly mistake to make if you have any idea at all what Arnold Murray is talking about. ZedPower 04:35, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Sources?
I must be missing something here or else my simple little mind is unable to grasp the higher meaning of the criticism leveled at Arnold Murray and Shepherd's Chapel. I have been studying with Shepherd's Chapel for over 4 years now and am pretty certain I have not heard him say many of the things he is charged with. They say "he teaches" or "his teachings go against traditional Christian thought". Hello. What he says comes straight from the Bible. He isn't making it up. He is reading God's Word! I guess you have to be a pretty dim bulb not to get that. AzJan Sept. 8 2006
The criticism is included because it is relevant, not because Wikipedia is promoting it as being neccessarily correct. And if it is stated that his interpretations go against "traditional Christian thought", it is not a neccessarily a criticism. It could be that "traditional Christian thought" is inocorrect in its interpretation. But even if it is, his difference from the mainstream still bears mentioning. Asarelah 01:36, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] YouTube links
This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed or you would like to help spread this message contact us on this page. Thanks, ---J.S (t|c) 06:40, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
