User:Anthere/Soupente

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Hi there -- I created WikiLove. Can I withdraw some WikiMoney from your account now? :-) --Eloquence 03:38 May 11, 2003 (UTC)

Of course I did it only for the money. ;-) No, actually I found it quite strange that we didn't have an article about it yet. Let's hope it helps. --Eloquence 16:49 May 11, 2003 (UTC)

I had been loathe to lobby on my own account about my page on the French Wikipedia, but I wanted to respond to your comment ("I think Daniel will be welcome, provided he proves one or two of his books have not been published at his account, plus one or two articles in serious and famous books or other publications. Articles on his grand father will not be welcome I guess.") on Talk:Daniel C. Boyer to set some things straight:

1. My book The Octopus Frets: political poems was self-published; my book The Tailgating Spinster was published by Fiji Island Mermaid Press.

2. My article Are You Crazy?: Mental Illness and Whiteness was published in the journal Race Traitor</i> (No. 9, Summer 1998); this article was reprinted in the book Surrealist Subversions: Rants, Writings & Images by the Surrealist Movement in the United States (you can see its listing on Amazon.com), along with my new article "Seattle 1999: Just the Beginning" and my drawing "The Breakfast Club." I had two articles published in The Salvador Dali Collectors Magazine ("Vinyl Dali," (Vol.5, No.1) and "Dali's Foray into New Medium was 'Smokin" (Vol.6, No.1). My response to an inquiry was published in Groupe de Paris du Mouvement Surréaliste, "Ecoutons Voir: Réponses à l'enquête sur le rêve, le langage et l'image" (supplement to S.U.RR No.4) (this was one of my few things published in the French language), and my response to an inquiry was published in New York Arts Magazine (an internationally-distributed art magazine). In terms of drawings or illustrations my work has appeared in Psycho magazine, The Improper Bostonian, New York Nights, and four of my drawings appeared in Snow Monkey magazine (Vol.3, Issue 2).

3. The irony of the comment about my grandfather is that he was much more well-known than I am; it is difficult to go into any library (at least here in the United States) which does not have one of his books in it. Which would certainly not be true of me.

http://abe.midco.net/baike/800x600project/cereusjbanks.htm

No, I'm not the author; I just found the link somewhere and thought it was cool. I like the ones on grafitti, books, and tulips also.  :-) Koyaanis Qatsi

Yes, the deletion log is (presently) just a page, so you can take all the text out of the old deletion log and paste it into the new one if you like. (The pages are protected so only sysops can edit them.) The custom here on en.wiki seems to be to move everything out of the deletion log into an archive page each month; if anyone does make an edit, the pre-edit version is saved in the history, so also you could just clear the page. It doesn't really matter from a technical point of view. --Brion 02:13 21 May 2003 (UTC)

That's a good start at local food, Anthere.  :-) I tweaked it some; I hope it doesn't appear to advocate local food, but I do think it's a principle of sustainability and I don't know how to say that NPOV. People interested in sustainability are interested in local food. ... Also, should we mention that some people buy local food as part of a bartering system, intending to lower the amount of money they need? I have several friends who do that--some of them poor by choice, others not. Koyaanis Qatsi

Hi, it's a tripod you want. I like your pictures, but especially the third one.  :-) Koyaanis Qatsi

Bonjour Anthere!

Est-ce que Tu as lu Talk:List of French Monarchs? (and that's my French capability for the moment -- a hard day, and my speech is not nearly as good as my reading comprehension!) Triton has quoted you! You should feel honored! une autre femme

How are you these days? I've discovered roots music lately and am in heaven, listening to all these old 33s, 45s, and 78s that people have digitized. Koyaanis Qatsi

I can hardly believe it -- but could it be that you are not familiar with the tilde trick for signing (~~~ for signature without timestamp, ~~~~ for signature with timestamp)? Or are you just lazy? :) --Eloquence 00:24 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I've uploaded a flower for you at media:Lavender.jpg. Enjoy :). WikiLove, MB 14:51 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Image:Lavender small.jpg

I'm fine, thanks. Working on the film still a bit, finishing it up. Watching some films and slowly getting back into reading.  :-) Koyaanis Qatsi 20:16 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Please, take it easy on the edit wars. These articles are not worth getting in such a huge fuss over. Maybe take a break from Wikipedia for a while... come back to it later when you're not so angry. -- Wapcaplet 00:02 5 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Sorry Wapcaplet. But did you look at the edits he did ? At the whole paragraphs he removed ? Till the point the article looks like nothing ? He wanted a one article. He got it. Now, he wants to remove anything that is not fitting with his pov. He is stripping the entire article, carefully written by dozen of contributors. He is insulting me. And this is ok ? I do not think so. Anthere

I am not going to take any sides in this... I think you're both being kind of stubborn. I just think if you both take a break you will feel better when you come back to it later on, maybe then we can discuss it rationally. -- Wapcaplet 00:11 5 Jun 2003 (UTC)

This is precisely why I asked several times for the page to be protected. I see that sysops are not very much in a hurry to help users in need. I can't say I appreciate that. I don't ask you to take side. But when you have time, please quietly read the edits he is proposing. I don't necessarily say they are all bad, but some are just non acceptable. Many very important points are removed. Only the scientific point of view is kept. These articles were the result of a work of several people. They stand there many many months with consensus on them. What he is doing is very bad. And his attacks are just as bad. If you care, please do work between his version and the previous one.

I'm not sure I'm cool-headed enough to do any edits on this right now, either :) I know RK's not cooperating, but continual revert-wars are just going to make the situation worse. Maybe if you leave it alone for a while, he'll let it rest too. Seriously! Take a break! Go watch TV or read a book or something. Wikipedia is not everything, and the world's not gonna end if the articles on Gaia theories aren't totally accurate. For your own happiness and sanity, please :) -- Wapcaplet 00:22 5 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Regarding edit wars: Post to Wikipedia:Current disputes over articles or the Wikipedia:Village pump. MB 01:18 5 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I've uploaded a flower for User:Angela at media:Sagittaria.jpg. MB 03:00 5 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Image:Sagittaria.jpg(trillium)

Regarding protection of pages, try wikipedia talk:protected page (or the village pump or the page of sympathetic sysops). Unfortunately, by the time I saw the page, it was already a mess of reverts and moves, which didn't help... Martin

I think it's technically a misspelling in this case (although of course you're right about the deity). I took a look at the edit history for Gaia hypothesis and noticed that the first entry was where The Epopt moved the article, with the comment "oops! misspelled it". Took a look in Google for '"Gaia hypothesis" Lovelock' and '"Gaea hypothesis" Lovelock', found 4460 hits for the former and only 18 for the latter (one of which is Wikipedia) so I assume this is the spelling Lovelock himself used in his writing. Apparently the Gaea spelling had just been propagated from the original typo. - Hephaestos 17:01 5 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I accidentally removed a part of your contributions to Knowledge, and I also at first misunderstood some of what you wrote. You may have noticed the recent flurry of editing by me on that article. However, I want you to know that I put back what I mistakenly took out. RK 02:11 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Any chance you could start using the tilde trick to sign you messages? In case you don't know, ~~~ signs like this MB, and ~~~~ signs like this MB 21:22 6 Jun 2003 (UTC). If you want your sig to be ant, you can change that in you Preferences. It's just that if someone wants to respond to you here, or look at your user page, this make things much easier. Thanks. MB 21:22 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hi Ant- thanks for the suggestion re. Organic gardening... Sounds agood idea to create a page summarising the subject of 'organic gardening' linked to a kind of 'contents page' for an encylopedia within an encyclopedia on the subject of organic gardening. Could we perhaps merge the list of organic gardening and farming topics pages, although they are different subjects in many ways there is alot of cross-over, and it would make more sense to have a one page List of topics relating to organic gardening and farming rather than 2 seperate lists diverging or replicating the same work. What do you think? quercus robur 11:35 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Merci, Anthère de ta confiance à propos du libéralisme et l'affaire Faré.

D'abord sur la question du nom du user/utilisateur Fare/Faré, j'ai bien l'impression que toutes ces variations ce concernent de la même personne, mais je n'y attache pas de grande importance. Disons que c'est plutôt une question de l'accentophobie qui est si bien rependu parmis les anglophones.

Au niveau de l'entourloupe (=troll??), ça prendrait de demander si c'est quelque chose qui arrive souvent. Encore, il ne faut pas y attacher trop d'importance. Quand ça mène à un lien vide, ça devrait servir d'une façon temporaire ou d'en faire un "redirect" sur l'article anglaise ou d'écrire un "stub" qui donnerait plusieurs liens.

À mon avis il faut se demander quand un problème est vraiment secondaire, pour voir s'il'y a des moyens faciles pour le résoudre. Comme ça on peut se dévouer au vrai problème.

Mon Grand dictionaire Anglais-Français Larousse nous donne les traductions directes liberalism=libéralisme et libertarianism=doctrine libertaire ou même "convictions libertaires", dont ce dernier est toujours au pluriel. J'ai l'impression que le mot "libertarianisme" n'existe pas dans le bon français, ou au moins il ne parait pas dans mon Petit Robert.

Je ne dirais pas que liberalism et libéralisme sont exactement des faux amis, mais ça serait aussi inexacte de dire qu'ils sont parfaitement exacte, l'une à l'autre. La version anglaise et la version française ont chacunes leures propres evolutions. Pour l'anglais on a l'impression que le libéralisme d'aujoud'hui est compris comme le contraire de ce qu'il était anciennement. Je comprends bien la volonté des "libertarians" de se distingués de ce mélanges. L'article actuel liberalism anglais devrait se co-ordonner avec. Pour les deux, ils devraient avoir l'objectif de démèler tous les sens de ce mot assez confus.

J'ajoute un peu sur "ilk". Tu a suggéré la traduction "clique", mais ça fonctionne pas. Une clique comprend une groupe de personnes qui travaillent ensembles pour arriver à quoi que soit leur but commun. Les gens ou les choses du même "ilk" n'ont pas besoin d'avoir d'associations personelles ensemble. Je suggererais plutôt ";type" pour traduction, comme dans "Ce gars est un drôle de type." ☮ Eclecticology 19:48 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Let's start an ilk, Anthere.  :-) Anyway, here's a link on biopiracy you may find interesting. Koyaanis Qatsi 22:52 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Je viens de regarder le home page de Faré. C'est avec plaisir que je peux bel et bien annoncer qu'il est un des vôtres en 19ème de Paris.

Les liens qu'il donne pour le "libertarianisme" sont aussi bien de la France que du Québec. Il me semble que le mot en français est un anglicisme moderne. Peut-être que l'Académie française n'est pas encore prête pour ce mot, mais ça serait une bonne idée de l'accepter dans le même sens que le mot anglais libertarianism, mais certainement pas comme traduction de l'anglais liberalism.

L'intolérence est tres spéciale comme problème. Il est presque impossible de leur faire controller leurs gueules sans qu'ils commencent à nous accuser de prendre une position complètement contraire à nos croyances. En anglais on a l'expression, "With friends like these, who needs enemies?"

J'hésite naturellement de me mêler dans le débat. De préférence ça prendrait quelqu'un de plus expérimenté que mois dans les subtilités de l'économie politique, mais je comprend que ces gens n'auront pas l'esprit de se combattre avec ceux qui argumentent d'une façon plus libertine que libérale.

Santé! ☮ Eclecticology 20:34 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I read through the biopiracy page with interest. It seems to be mostly your work.

It appears to me to have a rather novel POV and I was thinking of adding some background, but my background is mainly USA so I'm hesitant to change much, especially if it's well researched. Wondering what your opinion is and what level of ownership you feel of the page. Kat 20:30 11 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hi Martin

Do you think Open Campaign is more acceptable that way ?

It's better. I need to follow the external link you added to find out more, really. :) Btw, sorry if my talk page is too big... Martin

I added some notes wrt world production at Talk:Agriculture. Kat 15:43 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Well, User:Jimfbleak split the ag page the other day, moving much material to USA_Agriculture. I think it's a fine thing to make the scope and perspective of the project more global.

I have maintained for some years now that agriculture is among the most geographically relative of all topics. The growing techniques that work for us will not work on farms a few dozen miles from us where the soil and topography is different. As I travel throughout North America I see farming operations that are quite different than ours even though the same crops and livestock are grown. So having a balanced North American perspective is hard, and having a balanced global perspective is all the more difficult.

Anyway, I have no experience of farms in Europe or the UK, much less Africa or Asia. I correspond with some people in Austraila and New Zeland so I have at least some idea for those places. So, I cannot write what I do not know and hope that you and others who are familiar with these places will fill in the gaps.

Kat 22:20 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I originally moved most of the US stuff from agriculture to make it more global, but I left the history bit in because it seemed that the development of farming in N. Am was of global importance. As I said, I've no expertise in this area, but I think it's an arguable case. jimfbleak 06:11 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)


Anthere, Left a note for you at Talk:Monoculture Kat 17:29 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Why do you think you were "rejected" for Adminship on en.wiki? You were already, seconded, thirded, 4th, 5th and 6th before you finally accepted. It is only a technical matter and limited developer resources why your account hasn't been switched to "sysop" here yet. Heck since you stated your request as a side statement inside a longer statement to me there is a good chance a developer didn't ever notice what you said. I will make things clear on our Admin request page. You are a great Wikipedian and will make a great Admin too. :) --mav

You are a sysop now, that's for sure. Have fun! --Eloquence 18:38 16 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I'd congratulate you... but knowing your feelings, perhaps commiseration would be more appropriate? :) Martin


Everyone, a little WikiLove, please! We're all here to make Wikipedia a better resource, remember. --Brion 01:57 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Henceforth, until you hear from me otherwise, you may sign Pizza Puzzle alongside your name in any argument u might have with RK. Pizza Puzzle

I strongly recommend that the both of you take a break for a few days, at least from the pages that you're conflicting over. Regardless of who's "right", you're not going to get anything useful done with tempers and rhetoric running high. Wikipedia will still be here when you return. --Brion 03:03 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

That's a damselfly, not a dragonfly, but it's a great picture anyway.  :-) Thanks for posting them. Koyaanis Qatsi 03:14 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Well, they're both Odonata, and commonly confused, so you're not far off. A dragonfly at rest will typically have its wings horizontal (the one picture I have, with one pair of wings down, is atypcial); a damselfly at rest has its wings held vertically, above the body. Other than that, they're very similar in life cycles (they start life in river bottoms and molt up to 15 times before becoming the winged creatures flying about above water), they live from months to years before leaving the water, they both date back hundreds of millions of years. Some fossils show that dragonflies used to reach up to 2.5 feet across. And this is probably more information than you wanted.... of all that we studied in entomology, the only things I remember are dragnonflies, damselflies, and carnivorous plants.... Best, Koyaanis Qatsi 03:25 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Too many bugs. Have another flower. ;)
Hephaestos

You've got mail.  :-) Koyaanis Qatsi 04:06 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Well, I was currently avoiding looking at my mail box. It contains only messages about Vandalism, Trolling, poor and non acceptable english, harassment and banning. Oh, btw, I am gonna set up my banning page. Since I am in the pipe :-) Okay, I'll read your mail anyway before going to sleep.
Well maybe I could post them here, instead; I just couldn't convince myself the photos would be useful to some article, since the articles already have suitable pictures. Koyaanis Qatsi 04:18 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Hold on. I go. Just a page and archives to do.
Let's ban Brion because we don't like his haircut. Then you can ban me and I'll try to have mav ban you, and then I'll have more time to work on a novel idea and you'll have more time to take photos. Koyaanis Qatsi 04:29 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

By all means. I release all my pictures into the public domain, so it's not a problem.  :-) Koyaanis Qatsi

Keep your chin up, Anthere, it doesn't seem as if RK has won any friends at all. Go ahead and edit away at the Gaia articles if you see that something needs to be done, I'll support you. --Dante Alighieri 03:57 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Keep your chin up: good advice.  :-) On another note, what kind of camera did you say you have? I think I mentioned that I'm using a Nikon FM2 but get the focus a bit wrong once or twice a roll. Also, it's expensive after awhile. I'd like a good digital camera, and from the pics you're uploading, I'd say yours qualifies. Koyaanis Qatsi 06:20 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Martin was named sysop only with the suggestion of Ed. Not with the numerous supports offered to current new admin. Danino has questioned Martin right to be a sysop. Martin thus commented Danino words by

Thirdly, I should note that my sysop powers were the result of a fairly informal decision by Ed Poor, rather than the general acclamation that has greeted recent sysops. As such I feel somewhat lacking in democratic accountability! :) While I wish to retain my deletion and undeletion powers solely for the purpose of merging page

histories or moving page titles, I would like to announce here that I will no longer take any other sysop-restricted actions, until further notice. I hope you can all trust me to keep my word on this matter.

I consider that by "further notice" is meant being backed up by more people than Ed. Which is why I put him on the list for being a sysop. How else can people support him being a sysop than here ? Or, is there a page where sysops whose status is questionned can be supported ? Removing him just prevent people from supporting his current status.User:anthere

Or were could this be publicly listed ?

I think this is real real real bad.

Sigh. If Martin's sysop status was seriously questioned, it would be revoked. Just because our process of sysop nomination has been somewhat streamlined, that doesn't mean that sysops that were approved in the past will somehow have to be "reassessed". If you want to challenge Danny's disapproval, post a message to the mailing list. Martin chose the consequences himself, if you want him to go back to regular sysop activities, ask him to do so.
honesty required him to chose these consequences. I think posting on the list is not a good option. Everyone should agree on this, not only list readers. Plus, now the place to do it is *here*, not on the list any more. I will do the advertising here first :-))
No, I don't agree that "honestry required him to choose these consequences". He has the right to continue exercising his sysop privileges at any time until his sysop status is officially revoked. That never happened. --Eloquence
I wish people would stop making such a big fucking deal out of sysophood and non-sysophood. --Eloquence 21:49 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Well, you know perfectly well that I mostly agreed to be one just to see the content of deleted article :-) If I could see them, or if nothing was to be ever deleted (ok, I may dream :-)), I would probably not have fucking accepted to be one :-))))


The content of deleted pages is hidden for many good reasons. If we allow copyright infringements to remain visible, we will sooner or later get in big trouble for doing so -- other websites have been sued by organizations like Scientology and the Mormons. If we allow trolls and vandals to post junk to this site without removing it from their view, they will use it as their personal repository and discussion site and flood us with nonsense Because they will have a motivation to keep coming back, they will spam all our website's areas with their trolling and crapflooding. This exact thing is happening on Slashdot, where everyone can view comments that have been moderated down, so you have a subculture of trolls that keeps coming back to the site because it offers them a forum -- as a result, the signal/noise ratio is dismally low. Compare with Kuro5hin, where trusted users (similar to sysops on Wiki, but automated) can hide comments, and only other trusted users can see and unhide them. The result: Trolls and vandals are driven away because trolls want to be fed -- if they don't see the reaction to what they did, if it just disappears, so will they. What you are proposing is a very bad idea that threatens the Wikipedia community as a whole. I will do everything I can to prevent it from ever being implemented. --Eloquence 22:12 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I understand the need for some pages to disappear. Which is why I suggested categories for deleted pages (for example, deleted pages for cp reasons could be categorised as such, and not only would they be invisible, but they might also be permanently deleted from the db after a while, which would be interested for cp reasons). I see the point of your concern. I am just not sure it would apply to wikipedia.
I see not how this threat could destroy the whole community :-) But, admittedly, the votes for undeletions and the easyness to become a sysop is making an acceptable replacement :-)
I understood pretty well you would fight till "death" for this position of yours :-) You made that crystal clear. And there is little I can do against that since you are a developper and I am not, right ? While even though many disagreed with categories, they will exist because you agreed upon them :-) Ach, that is life ! No big deal :-) But, I just could not prevent myself to point out to that "fucking deal". And yes, I agree with you. I wish it would not be so important.
It's really a matter of cost/benefit analysis. What do we gain by making deleted pages visible? Little: the risk for abuse is minimal because of the massive peer review, the undeletion feature, and the Votes for undeletion page. What do we lose? A lot: either we risk being sued out of existence, or we make deletions a lot more complicated; we also risk attracting trolls who will fill our site up with nonsense. So the matter seems fairly clear and I would wish that you would just stop campaigning -- because it's annoying when people continue to complain about something even when it has been shown fairly conclusively that their arguments are flawed.
You know what Erik? On the mailing list, you kept saying the topic has been enough discussed not to be anymore. But I have no memory you ever explained your position so clearly. Really. Perhaps RK is right when he says I don't get things :-) Anyway, I am glad I raised the topic a last time, for I really understand your position now. Which I did not before. As long as I don't understand, I tend to keep asking :-) I can be very stubborn when I am not convinced. Now, I am, and I won't bother you again. Because I recognise some truth in this position of you. I say "your" because the comments on the mailing lists convinced me that it was a rather personal position. It works better if you want me to stop bugging you on a topic to explain me things clearly, rather than just saying "no, it has already been explained". Actually, when people talk to me nicely and explain things, I think I tend to be very malleable :-))) (sisisi). The votes for undeletions did not appear from nowhere you know ?
I did not implement categories, Magnus did. And believe me, developing for Wikipedia is not always fun, precisely because everything is so open and transparent, and users who know little or nothing about how things work often complain quite rudely when something is changed. And then you have to deal with certain people who are opposed to voting on principle and will complain even when an attempt is made to make a democratic decision. So we revert to a fake consensus process which almost never succeeds, and decisions are made without any kind of formalized approval process, and as a result, the same people who complain about using voting will complain again because no "clear consensus" was reached. This kind of mentality is very, very effective at preventing anything from getting done. But that will of course not stop these very same people from complaining that nothing is getting done! Ask Magnus through what trouble he had to go to finally get a category system approved that may see the light of day.
If I was the "benevolent dictator" of Wikipedia, the first thing I would do is abolish my own position, establish a democratic decision making process, and make it a bannable offense not to respect that process. The voting opponents would whine, but only for a limited time, and we would finally have a smoothly working system in place. --Eloquence 23:06 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Fortunately, you are not the benevolent dictator :-). Here is my position. I think you are right that when a group of people grow too big, decisions are very hard to take by sheer consensus, and yes, things tend to slow down, and decisions never to be taken. Hence, in some cases, I think vote is good. I spent a lot of time promoting your voting experiment on the french wiki, because we were one of the two international wikipedias having a big pb with the count system. It was leading to *great* silliness from french wikipedians. Hence, I supported this vote *greatly*.
Now, I must admit that in the end, that was a bad experience. Because contrary to what you say, this is the perfect exemple where a vote lead to NO change at all. Most french active wikipedians voted. They basically voted for the final choice. It was important to us. And many months later, we still are on the old system. I know this is just a technical matter quite well, but I now think I voted for nothing, I advertised the vote for nothing, and that allowing international to vote is a pure joke if the decision taken through the vote result in no change at all. Ok, I draw the line quite boldly to be clear (I will vote next time :-)). But since you say voting is good as it results in a decision to be taken, I say the goal is not for a decision to be taken, but to a decision result to be *applied* (in short, for things to move on). In this case, a decision was taken, but nothing was changed. Except for the sheer happiness of seeing we could collectively take a decision, the real goal : having things change, was not reached. Too bad. So, this may be a success for the english wikipedia, but this is a miss for the international ones, and a miss for the attempt of including us in global decision. 'cause it was not global really. In the end, we voted for an english issue. I'll pick up a very current parallel. It is just as if the french governement made a referendum for all french people asking "do you want gm food in your plate or not ?". Then 90% of people say no. Then the governement says "good, a decision was taken, this is very good. Now, people living in Paris will have no gm food in their plate, but the rest of France will go on having some for an unlimited time, but we do our best". Good ? Fair ? I hope you understand what I mean. This is no criticism toward anybody. *For me* this is a recognition of personal failure. This is also true as far as software is concerned. Our software are also drifting apart. I think the only way is to promote as much as I can transfert of editors from one to another and hope that a french will get involved in the soft development. There were many good things done in 18 months that I have been here, but many failures too.
Thinking about it. I am sure you will another day organize another wikipedia wide vote. If so, it might make sense perhaps to inspire from how international decisions are taken in meat space. You know, international conventions for example. Where there is a time for discussion. Then a time when nations can decide to sign or not sign. A time limit for the signatures. With a miniumum of signature to reach for the international decision to come to enforcement. And also, from the very beginning of the proposal, an official date where the convention upon which there will maybe be an agreement start being enforced. Perhaps there will be a lapse of time before the enforcement really start, but when it will, the convention will be enforced into all signatory nations at the same time. This is certainly not democratic and efficient that the convention be applied slowly over years one nation after another. When decisions taken are not applied; it is perhaps not worth to take them. I hope you will not see this as criticism toward you or anybody else, it is really not meant to be. I would like just as you that some decisions are taken, and am unhappy when things just get drown by slowlyness. And am aware in such a project, it is sometimes frustrating to see that some things are not moving. It was just an idea. Right ?
Sorry for your personnal page, but the talk page is over 32ko.
So will be yours soon. Fortunately, this problem will soon be solved thanks to the section editing feature I implemented. Then you can just edit the last section of a page, which should always be reasonably short. --Eloquence 22:12 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)
That sounds good. That will probably help me greatly :-)
Wikilove ant.
Hi anthere.
My withdrawal from most sysoping is entirely voluntary. I felt under no pressure to do so, but it seemed like the right thing to do. It's not permanent - just until further notice. Relax! :) I suffer no pain, and gain much wisdom, from the kind and considerate criticism of my peers. :) Martin 23:18 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I didn't intend to send you a metaphor; I just thought it was a nice picture. I hope you don't feel that way for long.  :-) Koyaanis Qatsi 06:06 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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