Talk:Anti-Judaism

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[edit] "non-Judaizing Christians of Hebrew stock"

The article refers to "non-Judaizing Christians of Hebrew stock". What are these? Jayjg (talk) 10:22, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Break occured after Akiva declared Bar Kochba the Messiah

The article asserts that Jewish Christians supported Jews until Akiva declared Bar Kochba the messiah. What support is there for this claim? Akiva's claim was hardly universally accepted to begin with, and was dropped immediately following Bar Kochba's death. Also, didn't the real break happen after the First Jewish revolt and desctruction of the Temple in 70-73CE? Jayjg (talk) 10:24, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Query

I deleted this from the article "including Jewish Christians (also called Judaizers), non-Judaizing Christians of Hebrew stock, and Gentile converts ..." because I don't know who these groups were, particularly "non-Judaizing Christians of Hebrew stock". Pintele Yid 08:21, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Bizarre, and rather sad story in that vein... My advisor is a Chinese guy from Singapore... From the day I started back at school he hasn't ceased to talk to me about how amazed he is by Tzahal...all about how advisors from tzahal trained the Singaporean army, etc. ... We've been on good terms since the day in my first class in the program, about 3 lectures into the semester, when he said that doing something "just isn't kosher", and then basically freaked out that I might think he'd said something wrong... funny thing was, he used the word "kosher" completely properly in English, and in such a way that there was no way to find fault with it even if the entire statement had been made in Hebrew...albeit with "kasher"... Anyways, he made some comment about a year ago that struck me as just a little bit odd, about how Jews are Jews whereëver they go, so I sent him the link to Kaifeng Jews, and he never said anything about it to me. Then last week, he said something similar about how Jews are Jews, but there aren't any Chinese Jews. So I sent him a couple of links to amishav about some of the remnants of the Kaifeng community reclaiming their Jewishness. So today I went to talk to him about making up the midterm I missed during 8 Atzereth, and he showed very little interest in discussing it, instead the conversation somehow turned to the email I'd sent him, and he was astonished that there could be Chinese Jews...since you had to have "Jewish blood" to be Jewish. He was flabergast that there was such a thing as conversion to Judaism, and even moreso by my assertion that "yes" he could convert to Judaism if he really wanted to. Gawd. What are we doing so horribly wrong about being a light le`olam that they don't even know that they can convert?! Tomer TALK 12:05, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Intro

IMHO, the intro needs to be carefully rewritten because in the current form it is very confusing and may be misconstrued in the sense that hostility to Jews on religious grounds is merely anti-Judaism. Reputable references would help. ←Humus sapiens←ну? 10:39, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Please see if this intro works. ←Humus sapiens←ну? 11:34, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm going to work on it a bit. Jayjg (talk) 17:21, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
It's much better now. ←Humus sapiens←ну? 20:28, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism of Islam and Judaism

Having read the page on "criticism of Islam", which pretty much offers all the arguments on why Islam is an evil and false religion, I believe that this page which is its equivalent should justly offer a similar content and not only offer a history of hostility towards jews. I noticed that in the page on criticism of Islam, it is claimed that Islam is clearly a moral regression from the Jewish and Christian traditions. It would be easy to find theological aswell as moral criticism of judaism, including God commanding the Jewish people to commit Genocide and mass murder of women and children. (Torah:(I Samuel 15).http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter3-21a.html It is unfair and distasteful to judge entire religious communities both Jewish, Muslim and Christians especially in the times we live in. We must especially not target Islam from the position of a supposedly superior "Judeo-Christian" tradition which, in my opinion, does not exist.--Burgas00 13:23, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely. There are other pages than just "criticism of islam", namely criticism of religion, criticism of Christianity, which contain criticism of these religions. Other pages , such as Criticism of Mormonism, criticism of atheism or this page, offer accounts of criticism, not criticism per se. It seems it's ok to criticize Islam, or religions as a whole, but criticising judaism amounts to anti-semitism, a form of racism. Someone please do something about this ! --Nobel prize 4 peace 22:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Opposition vs. Hostility

I am opposed to the Jewish religion insofar as I believe it is not true. That does not make one an antisemite. The first line should be altered or the last line of the intro should be altered. The opening as it stands tries to use the dictionary to make antijudaism antisemitic by definition. Fine, but only if antijudaism is redefined as hostility or discrimination, not mere opposition, to Judaism. Sarcastic Pillow 22:20, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree that the article as it stands conflates the terms "anti-Judaism" and "anti-Semitism." If the two are synonymns, why have a separate article?
"Anti-Judaism" denotes opposition and hostitlity to Judaism's religious claims, hence to the existence of the faith itself; "anti-Semitism" denotes bigotry against those who identify as Jews, regardless of their subscription to the religious claims of Judaism. Given Christianity's origin as a Jewish sect, anti-Judaism can be traced to sectarian disagreement — more like "anti-mainstream Judaism." The tendency to move from a critique of the faith claims of Judaism vis-a-vis nascent Christianity towards a critique of Jews as Jews is the movement into anti-Semitism, imo, and is a direct result of Christianity's evolution into a gentile movement, and more particularly, into the state religion of the Byzantine Empire to which everyone was expected to conform.
The distinction between the two terms is tricky, since Judaism is both a religion and an ethnic identity. In other words, there is a correspondence between being and doing. Seen in this way, it is perfectly understandable that such a conflation should creep into the article itself. If one opposes the existence of Judaism, perforce one opposes the existence of Jews. Paul of Tarsus' claim that in Christ there is now no longer "Jew or Greek" is a lot less innocent nearly 2000 years on.
In sum, I think there is a more subtle way of bringing out the distinction, but I'm wary of giving it a shot. Fishhead64 20:11, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How is the term a "euphemism"? like this article says in the first paragraph.

Futhermore: Shouldn't this page be merged with Criticism of Judaism?--Greasysteve13 09:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] OR removed

I have removed the following from the WP:LEAD:

The definition of "antisemitism" in Merriam-Webster Dictionary patently includes anti-Judaism: "is hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group."[1] According to this definition anti-Judaism is a specific form of anti-Semitism.

This is argumentative OR and not suitable for the article, let alone the lead paras. — JEREMY 12:04, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger Proposal?

Please make your case for merger. Otherwise tag will be deleted. --Doright 06:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Are we discussing merging Criticism of Judaism into this article? If so, I vote yes. SlimVirgin (talk) 05:23, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Last I check there were proposal going both ways, but no discussion. I think merging anti-Jud into Criticism is a very bad idea. I'm not even sure merging Criticism into anti is a good idea, because "Criticism" and "anti" seem to be unique concepts.--Doright 06:18, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hostility, opposition, and the dictionary

As long as the lead paragraph uses the dictionary to back up equating anti-Judasim and anti-Semitism, it cannot logically define anti-Judaism as mere opposition.

I am opposed to socialism, does that mean I exhibit hostility towards socialists? Hardly, I have socialist friends. I am opposed to a full-going empiricism, but I have no hatred for Hume or Locke (who would have opposed socialism). Opposition doesn't equate with hositility towards, hatred of, or discrimination against. Srnec 17:50, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Look at the history this language keeps being correctly edited out then reappears. Additionally the cartoon is an Anti-Semitic cartoon which further confuses the reader.
The article is good, the lede paragraph and the first sentence of the second graph "Christian anti-Judaism is a Christian theological position denigrating Jewish belief and practice," are absurd. By these definitoons all relgions are hostile and denegrating to each other, wich maybe true but creates a tuatology in that Judiac "hostility is not similarly explored. The problem is this articel is hihgly POV, and unhelpful unless the intent of its authors is to dilute antisemitism to the point of being a meaninless descriptor. 71.252.99.54 05:03, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inevitable breach

The (very brief) section says that the Christian answer of Jesus being God 'made the breach inevitable', but surely it should be pointed out that it was Judaism that insisted that this was a breach; Christians did not leave the Jewish faith; they were thrown out of it. DJ Clayworth 17:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Schisms are a common occurrence in religions. DJ, why do you insist that Judaism should have accomodated a renegade group that threw away some principles that Judaism held important?
"Jewish groups however have made very little effort to seek rapport at the theological level with Christianity." - according to whom?
What you called "unsourced rubbish" is thoroughly documented, please read further. ←Humus sapiens ну? 21:28, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
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