Talk:Anti-German (ideology)
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I shortened the article a bit. It is much better to read now!
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[edit] Sinistra!
the anti-german group sinistra! wrote a text in english about the anti-german ideology. http://www.copyriot.com/sinistra/reading/texte/antigermans.html
[edit] Structure ?
From the article, it´s possible to figure out what "Anti-Germanism" is against, but not it´s theoretical schematics. As far as I can see it (having consulted the linked documents), "Anti-Germanism" is a rather scattered set of theoretical and historical fragments. Therefore I assume the lack of structure of the article corresponds well to that of it´s topic. It seems to be tough work to set this straight...
[edit] antigermans
the anti-germans are not just marxist...there are also some anarchist or non-marxist communist who are anti-german! also it is not only based on the solidarity with israel but also on the thought that german politics and society is the most capitalistic and imperialistic and that (western)germany never was "cleaned" of the old nazis which made lots of careers in the post-war-germany. also they fight against that part of the new german pop-culture who stay for a new "proudness"of being german,who are very popular at the moment in germany (fler/mia etc.) there are two kinds of antigermans the so called hard- and softcore antideutsche (antigermans).
[edit] Anti-German
There is only one sentence for the topic of "anti-German" proper! I understand that this is an English-language Wiki, but this is absolutely ridiculous. The first step in helping racism succeed is to convince observers (and the victims) that it doesn't exist. First there is the ethnic factor, some form of anti-German feeling is present wherever Germans are a minority, in most places around the world including the United States and South America. The Volga Germans of the former Soviet Union are now the most rapidly disappearing ethnic minority on the planet. Second, there is the national factor- you could go on for pages about the British press!
I desire to see this article fixed, but I doubt there would be many takers... judging by the articles on German Expulsion from the East, it has become fashionable on Wikipedia to adopt an anti-German bent. So much for NPOV.
[edit] Can we split this article?
May be we can write remove the redirect and write an article Anti-German sentiment, and write an article following the example of the article Anti-French sentiment and anti-Americanism. Anti-German sentiment was quite strong just after WWII and enduring in some countries, like Norway. This should be described somewhere. (I am somewhat pro-German by the way). Andries 21:40, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
- Well, I don't think there is anything stopping anyone from writing an anti-German sentiment article. This one refers to something entirely different. I'm not sure if it would need to be moved, although we could create Anti-German (ideology) or something if there was a lot of confusion.
- However I would caution that an anti-German sentiment article would need to be historical and only makes sense if it identifies a geneaology of the phenomenon with references provided. Otherwise, the page, just like the old Anti-American sentiment page and the French page, will just become a mess of random ranting with a contemporary focus. Tfine80 22:07, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
- But I do agree it is dumb to have that sentence at the top. We should either have an article or not mention it here. Tfine80 22:11, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
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- Anti-German sentiment was of significance in post war Europe for some time and to a lesser extent even now. For that reason an article should be made. I dunno how to make it a good article and how to keep POV disputes and edit warring out of the article, but that is another question. I would appreciate help. Andries 22:17, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
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- I agree that it is a phenomenon. Probably much more coherent than a subject like Anti-Australian sentiment. However, it is hard to know where to begin. I think that anti-Americanism is an important article because it discusses a clear concept that has been variously defined and we can try to place some limits on its scope. To understand anti-German sentiment we would have to examine the Congress of Vienna, Bismarck, German colonial policy, and German landholdings in Eastern Europe. And it would differ from every historical perspective and actor. What I don't like is an article that gives a brief history and then discusses petty (in the long term) and contemporary issues like trade disputes or emotional topics like the Iraq War. Or one that collapses into a collection of stereotypes. Tfine80 22:28, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
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- It is perhaps important to write the article first before wondering about POV issues. It hasn't even been written yet. You're still only talking about doing it. I don't understand what the contention is about. Why not see what the content is first before you voice your disapproval of the article? Goodbye to All That had a few passages describing anti-German sentiment on the English homefront during WWI, for example, which isn't mentioned at all in any Wikipedia article.--Denkmal 03:37, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] Much better!
This topic is so scattered, I wasn't even aware of the "organised persecution" article. "Well done" to the person who corrected this problem. --Denkmal 00:41, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] This article is a POV mess
Sources need to be cited. This article seems to just be someone's opinion written as fact. The term needs to be discussed for what it is - a subjective label that some people apply to some other people. Also, the term has different meanings in different contexts - whether it's someone in the states with hostility towards germany and germans due to a prejudice that they're all nazis or a person in germany who opposes his government's policies and is thus labled by some other germans as "anti-german." i'm not even sure how pervasive the use of that term is in that context. see the Anti-Americanism article for a good example of what an npov article might look like. good luck everyone... Blackcats 08:47, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
- Disagree with Blackcats. My impression is that Anti-German (or antideutsch) refers to a coherent movement unlike Anti-Americanism, so the article you linked to is just completely irrelevent to this topic. (contributed by 67.188.209.23, 10:40, April 5, 2006)
- It is not "a subjective label that some people apply to some other people". It is a self-chosen and self-applied label: the "Antideutsche" call themselves just that. I think it is a translation of de:Antideutsche, which does have sources, including the authoritative (but POV) page Antideutsch from the Home Office of North Rhine-Westphalia, but all are in German. --LambiamTalk 07:56, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Communism, anti-German criticism and Israel
Stephan Grigat from the anti-german group "Cafe Critique" describes these three subjects: http://www.cafecritique.priv.at/interviewIN.html
[edit] the german left
i do not think you can say that "most antifa groups in germany also hold an israel-sympathetic position" and that solidarity with israel "is in fact a position widely shared, though not universally, among many sections of the german left". i live in germany and especially during the lebanon-war it was quite obvious that the majority of the german left does not practice solidarity with israel, but did even march together with islamists, namely supporters of the hizbullah. links: http://planethop.blogspot.com/2006/08/wir-sind-alle-hizbollah-heute.html -> the weblog of the editor of the weekly newspaper "jungle world" http://www.krasse-zeiten.org/foto.php?dir=libanon this demo was supported by the german left party and parts of the radical left wing. in fact most of the german left is very antiimperialist, antiisraeli and antizionist. and, btw, you should mention the anti-german solidarity with the usa and the uk and their war against terror.
[edit] Difference between Anti-Germans - Anti-Nationalists
The Anti-Germans did not call for "unconditional" support for the regime of Slobodan Milošević. (I don't know any argument for this.) They criticise the war, because it helped the islamistic UCK and their seperistism.
The difference to the Anti-Nationalists ist, that Anti-Nationalists say, every Nation ist equally bad. The Anti-Germans recognise differences according the form of states: Israel ist the only state, which has a reasonable reason to exist. It is the only resort to every person persecuted by Anti-Semitism in the whole world. The world that knows Capitalism and Nations generates Anti-Semitism. That is why Capitalism and Nations should be abolished, and Israel must be the Country that exist longest.
