Talk:Angelina Jolie

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Featured article star Angelina Jolie is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do.
Peer review Angelina Jolie has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.
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Talk page archive 1 September 2004 to July 2006

Contents

[edit] "known for her great beauty"

This is a bit NPOV for an opening sentence. We could well say "known for her fake breasts", "known for being an emotional flake" or "known for being heavily tattooed".

Please sign your comments. Although actually adding "known for her fake breasts" was unnecessary vandalism, I do agree the line was too POV and I have changed it accordingly. 23skidoo 16:51, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Early life plagiarism?

I'm very concerned about the section on Jolie's early life. Please examine this Jolie bio which is cited throughout as a source. Quite a few sections seem to be copied verbatim.

I'm taking a week or two off from Wikipedia, so I won't be able to help out. Would someone please examine the source and the section to see if the article is indeed plagiarizing? Kasreyn 20:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The reference to the moving "Looking to Get Out" and how she "did not" get the idea to be an actor from her father appears to cut a little close to what the website said. But we'd need to do a side-by-side comparison to catch everything. This needs further examination. 23skidoo 22:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
OK, I'm finally back from my wikibreak. What say we get back to this plagiarism problem? Kasreyn 22:12, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
The section was partly rephrased. Two sentences that rely heavily on phrases from the biography have direct footnotes to the original text, therefore the source it clearly noted and I think the section is well within WP copyright policy. -- EnemyOfTheState 15:17, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that Jolie's early life section needs to be changed. It's source is just another biography which lacks sources. Interviews would be the most accurate sources for this type of information. InformationOverload 12:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

While the bio doesn't name its sources, I'd say it's clear that it was written based on interviews and (reliable) articles. Most info can be cross-referenced with other articles listed in the reference section (especially the two Vogue articles). These Tiscali biographies seem to be an accepted source, e.g. it's mentioned as a reference on the featured article "Uma Thurman". If you on the other hand think that some info in the section is wrong and you have a reliable source for it, then just change it. -- EnemyOfTheState 15:17, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sub-article for tattoos and trivia?

It has been proposed on the peer review page to move the "Tattoos" and "Other trivia" sections to a sub-article "Angelina Jolie trivia" like it has been done with the Madonna trivia for example. I support this proposal, it would allow (a) to shorten this article, (b) to make it less "listy" and (c) to wirte a short summary about it that links directly to the new created list. I'm interested in opinions about this. -- EnemyOfTheState 11:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Any thoughts on that? EnemyOfTheState 12:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't like the idea. I'm actually surprised Madonna trivia has survived without being tossed by AFD. 23skidoo 14:57, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Impressed

As an editor on a lot of actor biographies, I'd just like to say that I am very, very impressed with the article, especially compared to what it used to look like. Good job everyone. You could get a GA for sure, and aren't far aways from an FA. Mad Jack 22:53, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

However, "Other trivia" needs to go - all of it should/can be either deleted or inserted into the other parts of the article Mad Jack 22:53, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Would tend to agree with this. Things like what color truck Jolie drives are really not worth mention. Kasreyn 00:37, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree this really turned into an impressive article. Should it be nominated for FA any time soon? Sloan21 11:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I would be thrilled to help with that.  :) Kasreyn 00:37, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
It would certainly be a good idea if a native speaker could go through the text to check or if necessary improve the prose, in accordance with the FA criteria. I wrote/rewrote big parts of the article in the last months, though as a non-native speaker I can only assess the text quality to a certain extend. -- EnemyOfTheState 23:55, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
This is a very good article indeed, detailed and well cited, good job. I think it would stand a good chance as FAC. The only concern might be its length, though I don't see how it could be considerably shortened without losing a lot of information, since there are no sub-articles to move details. You might want to consider nominating it rather sooner than later, because good articles tend to erode over time, unless they are closely monitored ;) 138.246.7.94 11:33, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
So what's the consensus on a possible FA nomination? Sloan21 12:32, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the user who said it's too long. Surely there are unimportant details that can be removed. Each and every small detail of her life seems to be listed and quite frankly, I couldn't read the whole thing because I got bored. Is there anything that can be done to eliminate or combine some of the unnecessary details? --Lorraine LeBeau 21:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia section

I have no objection to the removal of the present trivia section as there really wasn't a lot there ... but wasn't there a more substantial trivia section a few weeks ago? Something seems to have gone missing. 23skidoo 22:23, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed the trivia section a few weeks ago and put everything I considered noteworthy into the new created media section, as "trivia needs to go" was a repeated suggestion to improve the quality (not just of this article). -- EnemyOfTheState 23:02, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
OK, thanks. For some reason it just snuck by me. I'm not anti-trivia like some folks but if it can be worked into the main article, that's fine. (Trivia is good for listing items that are too tangental for the main discussion) 23skidoo 21:00, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Toronto's newspapers copying this article

This is more a random observation than a discussion about the article, though I still thought it's noteworthy.

I recently found the Fashion Monitor Toronto using an exact quote from the artile:

"Zahara's name means "flower" in Swahili, the second name "Marley" comes from late Jamaican reggae superstar Bob Marley. Zahara's nickname is "Z"." Zahara Not Shakira

And I was even more suprised today to discover that the Toronto Daily News used entire paragraphs:

"Angelina Jolie announced the founding of the Jolie/Pitt Foundation which gave initial donations to Global Action for Children and Doctors Without Borders of $1 million each. [...]
Angelina Jolie is a goodwill ambassador for the UN High Commission for Refugees. During her years as Goodwill Ambassador Jolie concentrated her efforts on field missions, visiting refugees and internally displaced persons (IDPs) all around the world. Asked what she hopes to accomplish, she stated, “Awareness of the plight of these people. I think they should be commended for what they have survived, not looked down upon.” In her travels, Angelina Jolie visited Tham Hin refugee camp in Thailand and Colombian refugees in Ecuador, went to various UNHCR facilities in Kosovo and paid a visit to Kakuma refugee camp in Kenya with refugees mainly from Sudan. Angelina Jolie also visited Angolan refugees while she was filming Beyond Borders in Namibia. During a private stay in Jordan in December 2003 Angelina Jolie asked to visit Ruwaished camp in Jordan's remote eastern desert, 70 km from the Iraqi border. With the humanitarian situation in Sudan worsening, Angelina Jolie flew to Chad in June 2004, paying a visit to border sites and camps for refugees who had fled fighting in western Sudan's Darfur region. In 2004 Jolie visited Afghan refugees in Thailand and on a private stay to Lebanon during the Christmas holidays she visited UNHCR's regional office in Beirut as well as some young refugees and cancer patients in the Lebanese capital. Recently, Angelina Jolie became more involved in promoting humanitarian causes on a political level. Jolie pushed for a bill to aid 70 million vulnerable children in the Third World which was signed by President Bush in November 2005, but so far no funding has been granted. In September 2005 Angelina Jolie was named the new spokesperson for the clothing line St. John, and the deal includes the start-up of a charity headed by Jolie which will focus on children's issues and causes." Jolie-Pitt Foundation Donates $2M to Children, Medical Charities

Anyway, I just thought that is quite interesting. -- EnemyOfTheState 17:52, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shiloh

I've uploaded three images of Shiloh (specifically the cover of People and New Idea magazines and her wax figure at Madame Tussauds). Why did you deleted it? I've cited fair use and sources of the image and if the image break any rule on uploading or tagging it, it should received warning, but until now it havent receive. Would you please give me a concrete reason on why you remove the said images? Hedwig0407 08:44, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Three pictures of Shiloh is excessive and totally unnecessary. There already is an external link to the People pictures and the fair use rational was questionable, since People sent out dozens of cease-and-desist orders to websites using the cover. Plus, the article has a lot of fair use pictures as it is. -- EnemyOfTheState 16:07, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IMDB refs

IMDB definitely is not even vaguely a reliable source. It shouldn't be used as a reference Mad Jack 22:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] minor grammar edit

i edited the sentence containing "...situation on the ground of thousands..." to read "...situation of thousands...", as the previous version is incorrect, as it refers to the situation on the ground that belongs to thousands of refugees, not the situation of the refugees themselves. Parsecboy 14:28, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Angelina is adopting a Indian Child.

I added a text which says:

Angelina Jolie was all-set to adopt an Indian Child.

But it was edited. I also given reference where I got that news from. Please Give me reason for deleting this news/ or otherwise i'll revert this article.

Thanks. Message is from User:Bunty02.

The original source for this information is the UK tabloid newspaper Daily Mail which is a highly unreliable source to say the least. Also, you provided a reference to some sort of blog, not acceptable per WP:RS. There is no point including random tabloid speculation. -- EnemyOfTheState 14:55, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reliability of height

I believe celebheights.com is a reliable source for celebrity heights. It is not editable by anyone, people can leave comments about heights however only the owners of the site can edit the height listed. Anyone disagree? --Bansal 23:18, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

No. It is only reliable if it cites where the information came from. Now, most of the heights I've checked have included the specific citation. That said, it would be better to go straight to the source. That is, if celebheights says People magazine on this date, it would be better to use People magazine itself as the citation rather than celebheights. But celebheights would still be acceptable in that case. However, if they just list an uncited height or provide an unreliable citation, they are not reliable. --Yamla 23:27, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

This page is getting hit hard. I think it should be protected. -Yancyfry 17:46, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the level of vandalism is that bad; I'm afraid it's rather normal for popular topics. Usually, vandalism is reverted quickly, so I don't see a need for page protection. -- EnemyOfTheState 18:31, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Also, one of the problems created by protecting a page is that not only do we prevent vandalism, we also prevent "good" edits that might improve the article. The vandalism is manageable - it's just an annoyance. Rossrs 22:50, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
There are different levels of protection. The page can be protected against people who aren't registered. That's one of the incentives of registering -- to be allowed to edit pages that are protected. The vast majority of vandalism edits are by anonymous, non-registered editors, and anyone who is serious about wanting to edit this article could and should register an account. It doesn't stop 100% of the vandalism, but fully 99% of the problems. There is also a protection level where only admins can edit the page; that should only be used for the most extreme cases, or instances where legally dangerous material is being added. 23skidoo 09:56, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Career/Film career

This is not a big issue, I'm just interested in the general opinion. User:Lil Flip246 has repeatedly reverted the section headline "Film career" to "Career", because it "includes her modeling career". While this might be technically correct, I doubt he is really interested in accuracy, but rather wants to emphasize the importance of modeling, judging by his edit history. Anyway, I don't care too much either way, but I still prefer "Film career", because (a) the two short sentences at the beginning don't establish a modeling career, but they are basically a lead-in to her movie roles, (b) the remaining section deals with her acting work exclusively and (c) including 'film' makes it easier to distinguish it from other sections, especially humanitarian work. So hopefully we can decide on one of these two headlines, and then stick with it permanently. -- EnemyOfTheState 00:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your take on this, and I see nothing wrong with "film career". Discussion within that section doesn't have to be exclusively about the film career, but could include any relevant tangents especially events that paved the way for her acting career. Such as her modelling work from which her acting career seems to have evolved. She was not especially notable as a model, it was just something she did, so the article should not be tailored to fit around the one sentence that describes it. But as you said, it's not a big issue. Rossrs 06:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Feedback

I think that there must be a lot of people copying the article too. Maybe adding in a line that says, "Please site what you copied from this article." should work. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 218.103.254.186 (talk • contribs) 07:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Her lips

I was stunned to see no mention of Miss Jolie's very famous lips in the article. They are always talked about in the media as her trademark. I think her lips are at least as notable as her tattoos and definitely deserve mention. I hope you agree and like what I wrote.BHFeller 23:02, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe they were once mentioned but the reference was removed under NPOV. Wikipedia is becoming rather strict regarding biographical articles of living persons. Considering Jolie is an Oscar winner, has been acclaimed for her humanitarian work, and is also widely regarded for her looks (something that, in itself, would be expected to include her lips), there would need to be some reputable sources added to back up why her lips should be singled out for attention as opposed to her tattoos or any other part of her often-exposed body. 23skidoo 04:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I shortened the passage you added about her lips. I don't think her lips are worth an entire paragraph and the sources you provided basically support that; sites like the nationalledger.com or eyeballson.com are hardly acceptable per WP:RS. -- EnemyOfTheState 18:05, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

EnemyOfTheState:

I’m a newcomer to Wikipedia and have a couple of questions.

Because it seems you are designated as the authority in charge of the Angelina Jolie article, I hope you don’t mind if I direct these questions to you. In your above comments, you make the assertion that two of the sources I referred to in the contribution I originally made in the article about Angelina’ lips “are hardly acceptable per WP:RS.” I did some digging and I find this statement puzzling as the sources I used seem to be at least as reliable as http://fansites.hollywood.com/~ajolie/int34.html, http://www.joliecommunity.com/, http://www.geocities.com/jolie_web/services.htm, http://www.pickbabynames.com/Celtic/M/Maddox.html, and even two references to http://www.wutheringjolie.com along with other questionable websites which you don’t mind being used as sources; and yet you disallowed my sources per WP:RS. Can you explain to me why you consider the sources that you let stay in this article as reliable and not the two of mine that you called unreliable? The reason I am interested in this is that I’m trying to learn as much as so can so I can make good contributions in the future. I thought I was beginning to grasp the concept of what comprises an acceptable source, but now you have me all confused. No offense please, but some of the websites you apparently approve of as reliable sources for this article about Angelina Jolie seem to just post recycled secondary source information, which makes them tertiary sources that I thought are to be avoided when possible. I should mention that these sites are also covered with a lot of spam ads and have sketchy copyright issues as well. I’m sincerely trying to understand and learn from your reasoning in allowing them to remain. Do you allow links to these websites to stand as sources because the particular information from the website cited by this article is reliable in spite of other things posted on the website in question? Does your reasoning have anything to do with the stuff the editors are debating in the External Links policy arbitration board concerning links to sites like youtube.com that have a mix of copyvio material and other legitimate non-copyvio material? Are these sources “grandfathered” in or something? Are these sources left to stand because they are the only place online where the information exists? Why does there seem to be a double standard? Help me out here please. I really want to learn.

I appreciate you generously allowing the re-adding of one of the sentences I put in the article about Angelina Jolie’s lips; I too think her lips significant and specific attention in the media is notable. However, I do have one suggestion. I think the statements about her lips that you put back in should be altered just a little. Maybe something like this could be said in the article:

“As one of her most distinctive physical features, Jolie's lips have attracted notable media attention. Her lips were mentioned among the "world's sexiest things" in a 2006 FHM poll (askmen.com citation). Despite speculation that her famous lips are the product of simple genetics or from some type of cosmetic enhancement (eyeballson.com citation), they top the list of body parts most wished for by plastic surgery patients. (USAToday citation)”

In interest of NPOV, I think the statement about the positive media perception about the appearance of her lips should be tempered with at least a mention of the speculation about her unique lips origins (genetic or artificial) and is discussed with dignity in the eyeballson.com article. I think this because of the extreme ramifications such speculation has in the world in which we live. I am especially motivated on this topic being mentioned because I read a current event article located at [1] which I found interesting and troubling. You should check it out. It makes it perfectly clear to me why this addition to the Wikipedia article is timely and relevant. If you look at the topic of the article I read, and check out Angelina’s name smack in the middle of the second paragraph, maybe you’ll see why I think that the information in the eyeballson.com article is important enough to add or at least be linked to in this Wikipedia article. I think that there is a widely held media-driven perception that her lips are the model woman lips and are obviously “fake” and can be had easily by anyone for the right price and by those willing to take the risk. However, as the article about the girl who died says; “people need to do their homework” and have realistic expectations about plastic surgery. I think the eyeballson.com article handles the issue of the speculation about her lips with dignity and NPOV and serves as a “reality check” as mentioned by the doctor quoted in the article. It should be included in case people considering trying to get “Angelina Jolie lips” choose to “do their homework” here at Wikipedia.

Plus I find it interesting that you and others wanted to include this information before. See [2]. You just needed a valid reason to put it in then. Well here you go.

Now granted, maybe linking to the eyeballson.com site as a source isn’t sufficient for citation in the body of the article, (which still puzzles me because of the other sources you let stand), but maybe in lieu of a source citation, it could possibly be at least added to the External Links or References section? I know that Wikipedia is not intended to be a link-farm, but I also know that WP:EL policy does state that a small and select list of external links is appropriate when the links help expand a topic in ways not possible in the Wikipedia article. I think the article at eyeballson.com is highly relevant, informational, and certainly expands the topic. Also note, I tried to find this article or one like it at a more widely known website like Time, CNN or Newsweek, but couldn’t so I linked to it at eyeballson.com. I think it can be considered a reasonably reliable secondary source because it offers insight into the topic from an interview with a plastic surgeon that is in fact a primary source that can be easily verified. As a matter of fact, I called the office of the doctor quoted in the article and they verified that he indeed gave the interview (no original research, just source verification, right?). I looked and don’t think the topic is already sufficiently covered in any other of the external sources listed, so I think its addition to the External Links or References could be justified and useful if it’s not used as a citation within the article.

Also, if you can’t justify adding the additional reference to her lips speculation in the sentence and an accompanying external link because of article length concerns, maybe you could cut down the Tattoo section (as was suggested in the peer review) and then squeeze it in that way.

I just think that somehow it needs to be in there.

I look forward to your comments and hope you consider my input. BHFeller 07:22, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Your criticism of some of the sources mentioned above might be valid, but they are not used to cite controversial statements, and therefore I feel it might be better to have a potentially weak source, than no source at all. You try to include a highly controversial statement though; mentioning mere speculation about plastic surgery will probably be interpreted as confirmation by some readers and WP:BLP is very strict on that matter: Remove unsourced or poorly sourced controversial material. It is my understanding that information about possible plastic surgery is generally left out entirely, unless the person has confirmed it him or herself. The media section only tries to document major topics of her public life and I don't think there is really an ongoing debate about the genuineness of her lips, certainly not in the main stream media. Also, the plastic surgeon on eyeballson.com seems to believe her lips are real himself, as he points out to take a look at her brother and father or childhood pictures, at least he is very indifferent about it, so the article is probably not an ideal source for this alleged speculation, anyhow. -- EnemyOfTheState 16:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

EnemyOfTheState: I added the word "unconfirmed" because you are right, that may have been misunderstood. Thanks for the help. Also, no big deal, but I re-read the article with the plastic surgeon and I think in fact he doesn't give an opinion at all. He's ambiguous. He says,“If you really wanted to know, you could look at a few basic things like her genetics and the looks of her parents and any siblings. You could also look at early pictures of her from when she was a child or teenager. You could also examine close-ups of the areas in question for scars and other obvious signs of work.” I think he is making a generic statement applicable to anybody, and not necessarily an opinion about Angelina; another case of unconfirmed speculation. Anyway, I've probably spent too much time on this, but I do still think it is a valid point that deserves mention. I agree with Pulsemeat in your discussion here [3] and people do probably come to Wikipedia to escape the crap of the blogospere. I know I did. I agree that it would be highly controversial to make a poorly-cited statement that her lips are either fake or real in Wikipedia. I would never want that. I think the statement in the form it is written now qualifies as non-controversial thanks to your suggestions. It now simply acknowledges that this is a question for which a lot of writers and companies frequently state their assumption of the answer as fact, but that has not actually been reliably settled in one way or the other. I think that point is benign, non-controversial, and notable.

Just a couple of interesting conflicting examples of it being alluded to as settled fact are once again[4] that infers that her lips are fake and easily duplicated by plastic surgery; a careless assumption. Also this one is just sad [5]; poor kid got the parent's non-Angelina-DNA and it gave them boring lips. Also check this confused lady out at [6]; if the lady followed the advice given in the answer I bet she had sore lips:) None of these are citable sources obviously, I just think they are interesting in regards to this topic. Thanks again for your help and insight. BHFeller 22:28, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

23skidoo:

In regards to your comments about the relevance of mentioning her lips in the article, please consider the following. To find a reputable (although admittedly non-citable) source for why her lips should be singled out, one needs to look no further than the topic Physical attractiveness in Wikipedia, which has a picture of Jolie with a caption about her lips. The NPOV policy concern is why I added this information to the "Jolie in the media" section and not to her "Career" or "Humanitarian Work" sections. You can hardly read a report in the media about her humanitarian work, acting career, or anything else without seeing a mention of her lips. Her lips have been credited with carrying movies and blamed for distracting from her acting performances. Her lips are often used as the marketing bait for the multi-billion dollar lip augmentation industry. Her lips make headlines in the worldwide foreign press. Her lips are often the target of late-night comics and other satirists. Other actresses are ridiculed for trying to mimic her lips. Even the section in this very Wikipedia article titled "Breakthrough" makes reference to a Gone in Sixty Seconds movie review that mentions her lips...check this out in the last paragraph -"The role was small, and the Washington Post criticized that ‘all she does in this movie is stand around, cooling down, modeling those fleshy, pulsating muscle-tubes that nest so provocatively around her teeth.’ " Yes, she has done more important things than have notable lips, and her list of accomplishments is impressive -that's exactly why I think it noteworthy to point out that the media focuses on her lips so much in spite of all she's done.

Sadly, there is probably more press about her lips than her humanitarian work. To deny this fact violates NPOV, in my opinion, and I think the media section of this article was probably created to discuss topics like this. Besides the sources I referred to in the paragraph I submitted to the article (that you deleted and EnemyOfTheState amended), here are some other examples of her lips being singled out in the media:

[7]

[8]

[9]

[10]

[11], the last two paragraphs

[12]

[13]

[14]

[15]

[16]

[17]

[18]

[19],see "Meg Ryan, Mary-Kate Olsen, Lara Flynn Boyle and Melanie Griffith are among the most notable celebrities sporting artificially inflated lips." - and then read the last couple of paragraphs about Angelina

[20] , a news site in India has this as one of its headlines

[21], third paragraph

[22], even kids want her lips

[23]

[24]

[25]

[26]

[27]

[28]

[29]

...and I could list thousands more. No, none of these references are from scientific journals, or whatever else you think is a reputable source, but this section of the article is about the media. A huge section of the media industry devotes itself to allegedly frivolous topics like this. I think that a mention in the media section of this article about the disproportionate attention her lips receive, along with citations to back it up, is appropriate. No, I wouldn't devote a whole separate section to it, but to leave it out altogether would be ignoring a very obvious topic relevant in an informational article about Angelina Jolie. I agree with your point that a discussion about her lips pales in comparison to her UN work, her Oscar, etc, but it is very relevant in a discussion of her presence in the media. The reason her lips should be singled out as a topic is simply because the media singles them out very frequently. As far as I can tell they mention them far more often than her tattoos, the topic of which somehow merits a large section in this article. Her lips even seem to be mentioned even more than her beauty as a whole. A mention of the constant reference to her lips in the worldwide media just seems obvious to me, and from my reading of all the Wikipedia policies, is not even close to being considered controversial or potentially libelous...read the Dolly Parton or Mick Jagger articles if you think frankly mentioning a celebrity's trademark body part is unprecedented.

I think an article written by a publicist would probably avoid reference to her lips and their obvious attention in the media, but I think a mention here in the Wikipedia is fair and, if anything, casts only a negative image on the media's sometimes strange priorities.

In conclusion, I took seriously the invitation to “help improve this article” mentioned at the top of this discussion page. I think the information about her lip's coverage in the media: improves the article; is relevant and timely (see my comments to EnemyOfTheState for the reason); is completely NPOV when compared to other things mentioned in this and other Wikipedia articles; does not violate the policy of no original research WP:NOR simply by its inclusion in the article without citation of a source concerning the topics relevancy; and definitely merits inclusion. I hope you agree and don’t delete it back out again. I also hope that someone doesn't just read this and make a knee-jerk reaction by deleting all references to other interesting Angelina Jolie topics (i.e. tattoos, Brangelina...) not as important as her UN work and her Oscar. All of this stuff collectively is what makes her interesting and notable. BHFeller 07:22, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

You don't need to provide a catalog of web listings to support your point. One or two will do, however as I have discovered on an unrelated issue, anything that smacks of being a blog is considered an unreliable source (rightly or wrongly) so if you are to add a citation (which should still be done if not done already), I would go with a reputable print source. There are one or two up there at first glance. Just remember this article is not just about Jolie's lips. ;-) 23skidoo 17:38, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ann Scott reference

An anonymous editor added an unsourced statement claiming Jolie had an affair with someone named Ann Scott. I deleted it per WP:BLP but if there happens to be a reputable source to support it, feel free to put it back. 23skidoo 17:38, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Hi. well I don't know if it can be called a reputable source as I'm not a journalist..... let's just say that I happened to witness this "thingr" if I may say... I didn't put it here to do any harm, I just thought it was funny to report it. The girls weren't hiding or anything so therefore I asume it's ok to say it ?
    • Please sign your comments. As per the note I left on your talk page, you cannot post such infomation just because it was "funny" or you saw it or whatever. Please read WP:NOR and WP:BLP. And under the rules of WP:BLP, the Three Revert Rule does not apply for removing such unsourced information. 23skidoo 21:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

What I meant by funny was 'sweet'. As I said this is no secret to anyone who actually lives in Paris and happens to go to certain places. Jolie and Scott met on a TV set where they were both invited and became friends after that. The appartement Jolie and Pitt stayed in while last in Paris is owned by a close friend of Scott. There were photos in Voici Magazine and Closer Magazine of the girls together. First walking Jolie's kids in the Champ de Mars,then coming out of the Plaza Athenée where they had lunch or something like that,then there was one of them kissing in the car downstairs from the appartement. So..... Olaf750.

  • You're saying "kids" plural so that means this would have happened around the time she hooked up with Brad Pitt ... so why then has all western media apparently ignored this? I just noted that you have added a URL and yet for some reason the Wikipedia system rejected it. I'll put it back since you have added a citation. You might want to check your member preferences. 23skidoo 15:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
    • I removed the citation. It doesn't actually lead to any article and it's not in English - English language links are required on English Wikipedia. If you can find a direct link to an article in English, then that should work. (I'm personally not that concerned if the article is in French, especially if it's mostly photos, but the link that was there simply went to a homepage for a magazine, so it wasn't very useful). As I mentioned on your talk page, you're on the right track and if an online source isn't available (presumably the article you tried to link to has been removed or is now behind a subscription firewall), a print reference is fine, too. 23skidoo 15:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I removed the claim, because there seems to be no source at all. You having witnessed it is no enough and your alleged source was just a link to a homepage. Also, I don't think a "brief affair" is worth mentioning anyway, even if it was true. -- EnemyOfTheState 18:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Well to be honest with you, this is getting out of hand. I just wanted to add a line and it keeps being removed and or argued and really it's not worth it. If this information doesn't appeal to you guys, well then forget it, I can't spend days like you coming back and forth on this page, I'm not an Angelina Jolie fan to the point that I have to control everything that's being said about her.... No hard feelings. As for when this took place, yes it was during the time she hooked up with Brad Pitt when they stayed in Paris for quite a while, and no I don't know why the western media ignored it. May be because Ann Scott is a french person and is only wellknown in France, I don't know.

I know it's tough, but the fact is Wikipedia has made it more difficult to add off-the-cuff information -- and even published information -- under their tightened WP:BLP policy. Wikipedia has nearly been (and possibly has been) sued for libel on numerous occasions, so they are requiring people to be diligent. Whether the piece of information is notable or not isn't the issue here. It needs to be something that, if Angelina Jolie or Ann Scott took umbrage, they could confirm on their own as being a legitimate source. Jimbo Wales (the head of Wikipedia) has taken a stand that he'd rather see zero information on a subject than risk incorrect or libellous information. While I disagree with him in terms of having to provide citations for every little bit of detail in an article about a book or movie, for example, when it comes to biographies of living persons, he's quite correct. Especially when we're talking about rumored or alleged relationships. This is quite different than the debate we were having over Angie's lips earlier. There may be debate over whether it should be part of this article, but Jolie isn't likely to sue Wikipedia if we mention that people think she has sexy lips. 23skidoo 20:38, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page is protected from anon/new user editing

Due to a higher-than-usual frequency of vandalism edits by anonymous editors, I'm protecting this article from edits by new and unregsitered users until further notice. 23skidoo 20:47, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please add io and oc

Interwiki - io:Angelina Jolie oc:Angelina Jolie . Thank you.

Done. Please confirm the interwiki coding works as I've never had to add these sorts of links before. 23skidoo 03:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
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