Talk:Ami Mizuno

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Sailor Moon
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[edit] Looking at the GA criteria

I've copy-pasted the relevant stuff here, struck out the ones I think we cover well and written some comments beside the ones I'm a little fuzzy on.

1. It is well written. In this respect:

(a) it has compelling prose, and is readily comprehensible to non-specialist readers; - Are we sure it's understandable to a non-fan?
(b) it follows a logical structure, introducing the topic and then grouping together its coverage of related aspects; where appropriate, it contains a succinct lead section summarising the topic, and the remaining text is organised into a system of hierarchical sections (particularly for longer articles);
(c) it follows the Wikipedia Manual of Style including the list guideline; - Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Foreign_terms suggests we may need to italicise "Senshi"-related terms, and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dashes) may be useful in general. The Embedded list thingie probably could refer to the stats section, Senshi powers and the music section. Do we use lists excessively?
(d) necessary technical terms or jargon are briefly explained in the article itself, or an active link is provided. - Are they all explained?

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable. In this respect:

(a) it provides references to any and all sources used for its material;
(b) the citation of its sources using an accepted form of inline citation is required (this criterion is disputed by editors on Physics and Mathematics pages who have proposed a subject-specific guideline on citation, as well as some other editors — see talk page); - We will, once we source those last few things in the page...
(c) sources should be selected in accordance with the guidelines for reliable sources; - See especially Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Sources_in_languages_other_than_English "English-language sources should be provided whenever possible, and should always be used in preference to foreign-language sources (assuming equal quality and reliability)." and Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Popular_culture_and_fiction. "When a substantial body of material is available the best material available is acceptable, especially when comments on its reliability are included."
(d) it contains no elements of original research. - we need to be careful here.

3. It is broad in its coverage. In this respect :

(a) it addresses all major aspects of the topic (this requirement is slightly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required by WP:FAC, and allows shorter articles and broad overviews of large topics to be listed);
(b) it stays focused on the main topic without going into unnecessary details (no non-notable trivia). - We may have to assert why some sections are needed in the prose? - eg. Music, proposed Items and Stats

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy. In this respect:

(a) viewpoints are represented fairly and without bias;
(b) all significant points of view are fairly presented, but not asserted, particularly where there are or have been conflicting views on the topic. - I really don't know about criteria number 4. It confuses me in this context.  :P

5. It is stable, i.e. it does not change significantly from day to day and is not the subject of ongoing edit wars. This does not apply to vandalism and protection or semi-protection as a result of vandalism, or proposals to split/merge the article content.

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic. In this respect:

(a) the images are tagged and have succinct and descriptive captions; - Maybe? I dunno - maybe I'm just losing confidence in our captions.  ;)
(b) a lack of images does not in itself prevent an article from achieving Good Article status.
(c) each of the images has a fair use rationale

[edit] Articles dealing with fiction

Articles dealing with fiction should follow the guidelines for writing about fiction. In short, articles dealing with fictional subjects, characters, objects, or locations, must establish and discuss significance outside the "fictional universe," together with the process of authorship. The focus of the article should remain on discussing the subject as fiction within the context of "our" universe, not on establishing it as a "real" topic in a fictional universe; otherwise, the article may be better placed in one of the many fictional-universe specific wikis. - Do we do this when appropriate?

We may want to look at other GA fictional characters - James Bond (character) — Darth Vader — Donut (Red vs. Blue) — Lord Voldemort — Max Rebo Band — Obi-Wan Kenobi — Sarlacc to get an idea of what a GA fictional character article looks like. Phew! Comments would be very much appreciated. - Malkinann 08:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

2c first part can be over-rided. The Tokyopop translations are not reliable in giving the kind of source material we need to support statements. Alex Glover also admits fault with his own translations, thus the best translation for stats and other things tends to be the original manga or shinzoubon. I can fairly well contest that the TP manga is a pretty awful representation of the manga and what it stands for. It's not just individual words, but plot changes, and meanings also change. There are censorship issues as well. Besides the stereotypical teenager register it also has lots of other problems as well. If need be, I'll present my links for Japanese language translation (and dictionaries) with Alex Glover's... Given that the TP manga is not a translation word for word, it can safely be nixed out.--Hitsuji Kinno 09:21, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Note that James Bond is former GA. I do like the descriptions on Voldemort and then that idea to model it in that fashion for these articles might be a good move... anyone disagree? --Hitsuji Kinno 00:34, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Bondy must have been delisted recently, then. How do you plan to use the "descriptions on Voldemort" modelling in our articles? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that, you see. Might just be easier to go ahead and do it, and then explain later.- Malkinann 11:05, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quick peer review

Since you all have done a very nice work in this article, here is a quick peer review about this article. Hopefully it will be helpful.

  • The article has 6 lists. Most should become prose, especially the statistics one, as lists are discouraged.
  • Image:Sailor Merkur 01.jpg is too big, tagged as {{fair use reduce}}. Fair use rationale for the image is somehow weak. Image:Bssm2.png, Image:Ami live action 3.jpg and Image:Mercury-21.jpg have weak rationales. Image:M princessmercury0.gif is too big as well, and wrongly licensed (that is neither a TV screenshot, nor can be released under GFDL as scanning a magazine does not grant you rights over the produced image). Image:Amimanga.jpg has no fair use rationale. Image:MercuryFont.PNG is a special case. The logo itself must be copyrighted by someone, so I am not sure a copy can be created and released for free. I would suggest sending it to Wikipedia:Copyright problems.
  • Bolding should be used only in the first appearance of the article name in the lead, not everywhere per [[Clean up: the subject of the article should be mentioned in bold at the first natural place per guidelines.
  • The first paragraph of the Profile section is written in an in-universe perspective.
  • Due lack of citations, it appears that there is a lot of original research/speculation (an excellent trait in a soldier in example).
  • The text flow is somewhat halty. Think like a casual user who has never read about this character or the show itself. The first line of the lead says Ami Mizuno (水野亜美, Mizuno Ami) is a fictional character, a Sailor Senshi, one of the central characters in the Sailor Moon metaseries. Would a casual user know what Sailor Senshi means? Maybe metaseries? The second sentence reads She is known as Amy Mizuno in the English adaptation of the manga and second half of the anime; in the first half of the anime, she seems to have been Amy Anderson. Would a casual user know what manga or anime means? I would suggest something like:
    Ami Mizuno (水野亜美, Mizuno Ami) is a fictional character from the Sailor Moon series of Japanese comics or manga and animated cartoons or anime, created by Naoko Takeuchi and originally published by Kodansha.
  • There are several typography comments: don't use contractions like doesn't, don't use single quotes to mark words like 'special,' there should be no spaces between mdashes (—), don't use - to separate between title and content (either use a ndash or a mdash, see the manual of style), avoid short sentences that could be merged into other ones, like Ami's father, a painter, sends Ami paintings., This is most likely because divorce in Japan is taboo., She is not given a new title., etc. Also, don't abuse semicolons, they sometimes create very long sentences, like Ami looks remarkably like her mother, who aside of her workaholic tendencies is a good person and openly resents not having more time to spend with her daughter; Ami admires Mizuno-sensei very much and is typically obsessed with being a perfect student, wanting to live up to her mother's example..
  • Don't use sentences like For information, see the appropriate section under PGSM. Either use a {{see also}} template, or don't add it, because it breaks the flow and confuses the user.
  • If you are using abbreviations, like PGSM, you should explain what it means, in example, In Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon (PGSM), the 'Dark Endymion'... (note again the single quotes used for emphasis, italics are preferred.

These are some of the comments I have. I suggest sending the article to peer review before trying to achieve Good article status. Good luck! -- ReyBrujo 14:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I really appreciate the help, however, the part about manga and anime, I pulled this from a feature article on the Anime and Manga Project space and found this: Excel Saga (エクセル・サーガ, Ekuseru Sāga?) is a manga series by Koushi Rikudou,[1] and a TV anime series based on it and directed by Shinichi Watanabe.[2] Manga and anime while it has a crummy definition has also made it into the OED, the Oxford English Dictionary. I believe that the rules of wikipedia are that if something needs to be explained in detailed it must be linked. If a person doesn't know what anime and manga are, they can click on the link, quickly find out and hit back. This article is under manga and anime as a category, thus it's not necessary. If all AMP articles required this, then it should show up in all feature articles, but it doesn't. So I think that line about not know what anime and manga are can safely be crossed out as no other articles on AMP require it. So why does this one have to be "special" suddenly? Either change the rules and require it, or let it slide. Letting it slide would be easier because you'd have to debate with the other people of wikipedia proper. --Hitsuji Kinno 17:39, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Thank you! I took a whack at the rationale for Image:Sailor Merkur 01.jpg, and shrank it down--does that look good? Is the rationale solid enough to use something similar for the others?
As to the Princess Mercury image, I think it clogs things up rather, and isn't necessary. I'd be okay with getting rid of it.
Excited to hit the other notes. :) --Masamage 23:39, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Glasses

We all know (or should know) that Ami-Chan wears fake glasses in PGSM, but why does she have a pair in her bag in Ami-Chan's First Love? I've never seen her with them before in the anime but why in that? She actully puts them on See here (Warning youtube link!) Lego3400: The Sage of Time 22:15, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

She also wears glasses on the cover to Ami-chan's First Love in the manga (biggish image), as well as several other times when studying. --Masamage 22:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Mamoru also wears glasses. I think Takeuchi-sensei has a softness for them since she married a guy with glasses... Ami uses them a bit in the manga. glasses in anime and manga do signify changes in the character as well. But that might be getting in a bit too deep without anime and manga glasses article... --Hitsuji Kinno 09:14, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, that'd be better for the meganekko article, ne?  ;) - Malkinann 10:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, it should cover the sudden change in character when the glasses are taken off v. On there is a clear one... but I guess we could edit that article, then pout the necessary info about it, then reference this article to that article to demonstrate the significance of the glasses. Would that make better sense? --Hitsuji Kinno 18:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
But she got married much time after creating Sailor Moon, as far as I know. -- ReyBrujo 02:06, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
And marrying someone with a particular trait doesn't necessarily mean you were specifically looking for that trait in a spouse. --Masamage 02:52, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
She actually stated it sometime in 1993 though (in an interview)... and then again in 1999 (Punch)... So, yes she likes guys with glasses... at least guys. --Hitsuji Kinno 00:32, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that in Parallel Sailor Moon a lot of the characters are wearing glasses. Like Chibiusa. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 03:17, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images for the bios

In the interest of not overdoing our use of copyrighted images, should we perhaps reduce the number of images in each bio down to just the essentials? If we want to cover civilian form, Senshi form, anime, manga, attacks, and PGSM, we could just reduce things by one and make better use of our space, like this:

  • Senshi form: Anime style, place in infobox (as we're doing)
  • Civilian form: Manga style, discuss placement (most articles have this)
  • Attack: Anime style, try to show the power and not just the character (we're doing well, I think)
  • PGSM: Show the character in civilian form (again, as we're doing)

The practical effect of this would be to standardize what form the manga images are portaying, and eliminate the anime-civilian headshots (which strike me as redundant).

Another idea is to be slightly less anal about 100% universal consistency in this way: if they are easier to find, use manga images in the infoboxes for the Outer Senshi, and use anime shots for the civillian images.

Any thoughts? I'm also working up a proposal for slight reorg of the profiles themselves, as well as the attacks sections; I'll post those as soon as I've got time to type them. --Masamage 23:48, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, yes, and the planetary symbols. Those aren't really copyrighted, so it's not as much of a problem. I personally like them by the stats. Incidentally, I think those are available as a font symbol--maybe we don't need to use images at all? Also, out of curiosity, what's wrong with the SVG versions being used at, for example, Mercury (planet)? Seems a little redundant to have our own. --Masamage 23:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Blame saturn on that one... Also, I like the images we as we have them now... Lego3400: The Sage of Time 16:36, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The svg versions weren't compatible with my computer and I couldn't open them up. Every time I went to save one, I'd end up with a black square, and I feel that they are a little small. The ones I uploaded are the fonts (Arial Unicode MS) just blown up to size 200, I believe. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 16:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Back to profile images... How would everyone feel if our main images were a cropped version of this? There is one for all 10 main characters. I was hesitant to bring them up at first because they are chibi-senshi, but now I want others' opinion. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 16:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Personally, I love the lead images we're using for the Inner Senshi. I'd hate to seem 'em go.
As for the SVG images, check out my example on the right. They can be resized to any size, right here on WP, just by typing the number of pixels you want it to get to, with zero fuzziness, pixelization, or aliasing. :) That's why they're using them. Take a look at vector graphics--it's pretty awesome stuff. With that in mind, would it be all right to do away with the redundant versions and incorporate the SVG? I wouldn't mind doing it myself.
Also, Lego, I like them too, I just think we're stretching our odds by using so many copyrighted images with overlapping content. --Masamage 20:16, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I was missing a plug-in that I found thanks in part to your link. Since I was the one who uploaded the font versions, they can be deleted faster if I submit them. I suppose the ones that we can keep are the crescents, and since I have nothing to do with the Black Star anymore, that's not my call. You can switch out the pics, and I'll have the others deleted. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 02:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Guess the black star is mine now? Lego3400: The Sage of Time 22:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I went ahead and tagged all my images for speedy deletion so they should be gone soon enough. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 02:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Okay! Glad you got the plugin--check out Inkscape. :DDD It's so much fun. I'll start plugging in the SVG images tonight. --Masamage 03:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the Inkscape recommendation! I just downloaded it. I'll look into it more later. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 16:17, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, back on the main subject! How does my consistency/copyright-friendliness proposal look? --Masamage 05:24, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

So, as well as eliminating the anime civilian form, we're also taking off the manga princess form? -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 07:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, mainly because it will be redundant next week, when I add a small writeup of the princesses to the Silver Millennium article along with this image. (Yay for school being out!) Using ten copyrighted images is always iffy when one will do the trick. --Masamage 07:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, especially because of the artbook image showcasing all 10. Seeing as how Sailor V is a special case, are we keeping her 3-pic image? -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 07:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Good point, and yes, I think Sailor V merits an image of her own. Other specific cases can be argued too, such as a Dark Mercury pic, or Black Lady. Probably we can just take those on case-by-case basis. --Masamage 09:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Also, for the cats we should have human images of Aretmis and Diana, to match Luna's page. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 09:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
How's this? Retrieved from here. -- RattleMan 10:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't they have seperate images? -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 15:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images cont.

Okay, for lack of any protestation, I will be removing the Princess Mercury image in just a moment. I'm also going to find a new manga image to replace the current one, because compared with the others' it's kind of pathetic.

My next plan, assuming no one objects, is to remove the anime head shot from the Profile section and move the civilian manga image from the Statistics section (which now has a planet symbol instead) into its previous location.

I propose that for the Outer Senshi pages, we use a manga Senshi shot for the lead image, and anime civillian shots in the profile, because it's just easier to find matching sets that way.

Any disagreement? Please discuss. :) --Masamage 20:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I would really like this to move ahead; the Statistics sections look horrid right now, with the manga and planet images both crammed into them. The calendar headshots being used right now are both redundant and much too large to be fair use. This discussion has been up for some time in the section above. If there are no arguments in favor of retaining them (including a good reason why they're fair use), I'll go ahead and switch them out of Ami, Rei, Makoto, and Minako's articles on Thursday, December 14th. I really do think it will make the articles better and more likely to achieve GA status. The Outer Senshi and Royal Family I'll leave alone for the time being while we work out other details pertaining to those groups. --Masamage 00:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I happen to like the way we have it now. It Shows the differance in style between the anime and the Manga. I say we just move the symbol to the opening paragrah or to the small paragraph at the start that gives a quick discription of their senshi forms in general. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs).
Happening to like it doesn't make it not a copyright violation, which it is precisely because the difference in style would still be represented by the remaining images. --Masamage 20:48, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation problem

The Materials Collection lists "image color" and "image gemstone" for Mars, Jupiter, and Venus, but not for Mercury or Moon. We currently have it cited from there incorrectly. Moon does have a birthstone mentioned, but it's pearl and moonstone, not diamond. Meanwhile, the Outer Senshi's gemstones don't seem to be cited at all. Is there another reference for these? Or is it so crufty and unimportant that it should be removed altogether? --Masamage 22:37, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Another story has a list of stats for like this for the senshi within the game.. Moon's and C-Moon's are listed as dimond. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs).

I'm all for removing it, personally. It has no effect on the characters' Senshi powers, it never comes up in conversation, it's not necessarily a favorite stone, it's usually not their birthstone... It is the same as their Image Color, which we don't mention (with good reason, I think), but even less relevant. --Masamage 22:30, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
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