Talk:Aly & AJ

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[edit] Copyright

This page is marked as copyright to the Walt Disney Corporation and to Hollywood Records. This is completely unacceptable and the original submitter has already agreed to release copyright on this material. However, I have requested that the user himself/herself clarify the copyright status of the page, either by removing the notice or by removing any copyrighted material from the page. If this is not done immediately, I will mark the page as a copyright violation and we will have an administrator look it over. --Yamla 02:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


I fixed the problem. Withdraw your comment (please). --Vmatikov

Withdrawn. --Yamla 00:16, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. --Vmatikov


[edit] Images

There are currently six pictures on this page. Even the thumbnailed versions are a little large. I'm thinking the page would look better with two pictures or, at most, three; this would bring the article more in line with articles for other bands. Which ones do people think we should keep? I like Image:Aly&AJ1WEST.jpg and perhaps Image:Wikimage_1.jpg, but I'm open to convincing. --Yamla 00:16, 1 November 2005 (UTC)…

You are absolutley correct. I have added that many photos because I have had a very difficult time selceting which ones to keep. I think that keeping Image:Aly&AJ1WEST.jpg and Image:Aly&AJ1WEST.jpg is a very good idea. I definetley am going to remove the CD album cover and small press-release Ice Princess premier photo, as it is of a bad quality. I will make sure to ask Aly and AJ (yes, I know them) for their opinions later. For now I am going to keep the following: Image:Aly&AJ1WEST.jpg, Image:Wikimage_1.jpg, and a small (I mean a real thumbnail, in comparrison to my current "thumbnails") version of Image:Aly and aj 20.jpg. --Vmatikov


[edit] Albums

I appologize for anything on this page that you do not like, however I specifically wrote ABOUT Aly and AJ's albums for a reason, I wanted to explain a little bit. My original intent is not know, however would it be okay to put information about their albums back in? Thank you. --vmatikov

[edit] cleanup

I merged in from the other Aly and AJ page and tried to remove duplications and ran into trouble. Could someone please clean up the page and remove the cleanup tag I added? Tedernst 17:50, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for merging the pages. It would be my pleasure to clean up this page, as I am the original creator. Thank you again for the merging of the pages! Vmatikov 23:13, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I removed two instances of a large number of -'s. Not sure why they were there to begin with, couldn't find a reference in the past edits or talk page.

   128.193.183.117 20:34, 23 March 2006 (UTC)EricBetts (bettse@onid.orst.edu)


[edit] RIAA

Where r u people finding that Into the Rush is certified gold because I have looked all through the RIAA website and i can't find it.

I checked and found it there as gold certified on March 20, 2006.24.64.223.203 03:24, 29 July 2006 (UTC)HappyBoy

[edit] Similar Artists and Influenced by

Are these sections really necessary? "Similar artists" is a very vague term, and any given artist could be influenced by hundreds of sources, many of which do not merit Wikipedia articles. Therefore these sections seem inappropriate or just out of place. -Rosepuff12 03:11, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It's also basically POV and hard to cite or verify. I'll remove the section. --Yamla 04:17, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. -Rosepuff12 16:45, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interview

I don't think the interview is necessary because the page is about Aly and AJ's accomplishments and the interview is just not appropiate for the page. It might be to gossipy too. Not everything could be true on the page. - Rosepuff12 14:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Which interview are we talking about? The article references at least two. If you are talking about the interview where they proclaim their disbelief in evolution, I think it is very much relevant. They obviously believe it is relevant enough to proclaim unto the world and in any case, the article doesn't exist solely as marketing. I know this is not what you are even remotely implying, Rosepuff, I just think it is very relevant. --Yamla 14:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I also think the information should stay. It was their choice to bring it up in a public manner. Also, it's at least partially related to the other things mentioned in that paragraph - their mother belonging to a Christian music group, the fact that they are home schooled. If it doesn't seem like it flows properly in the article, that can be changed over time as people add more information and context about Aly & AJ, but the raw info, including their quotes, should definitely stay, in my opinion. Serpent-A 19:14, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Ok so I guess you're right. It'll stay, even though I still don't think it belongs on there. -Rosepuff12 23:38, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Code Name System

I should really point out that both Alyson and Amanda use Code Names when they are credited for their musical works, and I believe in code names. While this ain't no Metal Gear Solid "thing", the fact that Alyson and AJ uses "code names" or "pseudonyms" warrant the article to use their code names to credit them. Therefore, personally, and from my point-of-view, we should be addressing the Michalka sisters by their "code names", even though this ain't no military. I had to make a minor edit because using code names in this article (unless it's a single person) makes the article look more uniform IMO. Therefore, I appreciate if Alyson is code-named ALY and Amanda is code-named AJ, much like the record label. Thanks. — Mark Kim (Reply/Start Talk) 05:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Evolution

Alright, let's settle this so we don't have a revert war. I see four distinct schools of thought on how to handle this evolution business. The two expressed their disbelief in the:

  1. process of evolution
  2. theory of evolution
  3. process of what they consider to be the 'theory' of evolution
  4. (this sentence should be removed because it does not belong in a brief overview encyclopedic biography)

Option 4 is my preference. Is this really one of the most important things about these two? Is it even the most important thing from the Blender interview? To me, including it at all seems to be a POV attempt to ridicule Aly & AJ, Christians, or both. (I am neither a Christian nor an Aly & AJ fan, in case you were wondering.)

My second choice would be option 2, including the link I just added to what a scientific theory is. It's a shame scientifically illiterate people abuse the word theory, with regard to evolution, to make evolution seem less believable; but again, those people are usually scientifically illiterate. The fact is, as the theory article explains, evolution fits exactly the definition of a scientific theory.

I don't understand the reversion to "process". Theory is the much more commonly understood term, and it makes more sense in the context of the sentence (to me). If you can show me verifiable sources that science has made a sea change to favor process over theory, fine, but I doubt that is the case. The function of theories in science is long established and important; I would be disappointed if the community changed its terminology for PR reasons.

As for option 3, the scare quotes are clearly a POV attempt to make it look like anyone who disbelieves evolution must be stupid, and that people who use the word theory to describe evolution are incorrect and are using it disparagingly. I trust I've discussed both points at length.

I'd like to see the thoughts of others on this issue here rather than in an edit war. --SuperNova |T|C| 18:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

  • As you may know, I'm the one who changed it too Option 3, and that's not what I meant at all. I myself do not believe in the theory of evolution (nor see how anyone really can, once they've studied it), and I was merely trying to find an acceptable medium between the two arguements. I personally do not think that people who disregard evolution are stupid, on the contrary, I think they probably understand the theory better then most. I personally am glad that you reverted it, as I think that it, according to their beliefs, is the best option for the artice. I just wanted to clerify why I changed it the way I did, and to apologize for misleading anyone. Thank You. Jay 18:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


I'll go along with the word theory if it means that much to you, just so long as the word is linked to its scientific usage. Their unusual beliefs are very much relevant to the article, as has been discussed previously on this talk page. Serpent-A 20:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
  • JackSparrow/Jay, your totally right (I've read The Origin of the Species), but taht's besides the point, they jsut mentioned that they od not believe in the theory, simple as that. IronCrow 05:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move Interview

Is it possible that we could move the evolution interview to a different spot, like to a trivia section of something like that? -Rosepuff12 22:29, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Rosepuff, I know you and I have both expressed in the past that perhaps that item should be removed altogether. I know you're not proposing that now, and I doubt we would reach a consenus if it were proposed, but personally I don't think it belongs on here at all. It is quite trivial so maybe a Trivia section would be the best place for it (even though, in general, I find articles with trivia sections annoying, I'll make an exception here). I'd support a move. --SuperNova |T|C| 01:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd support a Trivia Section. Jay 01:48, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm a member of a music only Wikia, and I thought I'd contribute the Trivia Section that I put on Alyson Michalka's page. I'll let the people who know the sources decide what to use, but I'll go ahead and re-word it from just Aly to both Aly & AJ:

[edit] Trivia

  • Are both Christians
  • Do not believe in the theory of evolution
  • Aly is currently 5'6
  • Aj is currently 5'4
  • Alyson's middle name is Renae
  • AJ's middle name is Joy
  • Aly first began acting/singing at age 5, in mostly church productions
  • Aly began playing guitar at age 13
  • Aly owns over 20 guitars
  • Aly named one of her guitars Luna
  • They are both each other's best friends
  • Are two years arapt, concerning age
  • Aly looks to her sister as an example
  • Aly has played the role of Keely Teslow on the Disney Channel Original Series Phil Of The Future from 2004 to 2007
  • In 2006 they will take the lead roles in the Disney Channel Original Series Haversham Hall
  • Alyson appeared in the lead role of Allyson Miller in the Disney Channel Original Movie Now You See It...
  • Both appeared in the lead roles in the Disney Channel Original Movie Cow Belles
  • They plan to reprise their previous roles in a possible sequel to Cow Belles, entitled Cow Belles 2: Back To The Dairy

There you go, I'll let you guys hash out what to use. Hope it helps. Jay 02:48, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

None of this is appropriate unless it is cited properly with reliable sources. Some of it is already in place, mind you. Other parts (names, for example) is not appropriate for the trivia section, it should already have been mentioned elsewhere. --Yamla 14:30, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Singing career section

It really needs major clean up. It has a large amount of unecassary information and seems to be POV. --MorwenofLossarnarch 13:21, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging from Aly & AJ discography

Aly & AJ have released one album; I hardly think a separate discography article is necessary. Also, this article is rather short as it is. Extraordinary Machine 00:28, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

They've also released several singles, a DVD, and a Deluxe Edition of the debut album, if not necessary now, the article soon will be. I vote to keep. Jay 00:37, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a democracy; reasons for edits count more than numbers of "votes". Wikipedia:Merging_and_moving_pages#Merging recommends merging two articles if they are on related subjects that have a large overlap, if at least one of them is very short and cannot or should not be expanded much, and if a short article requires the background material or context from a broader article in order for readers to understand it. I think it's better to have the info in one place, because readers will find it more useful. There's also considerable overlap between this page, Aly & AJ discography and Into the Rush. Wikipedia isn't paper, but it's still just as unnecessary in most cases to have the same info in more than one place. Extraordinary Machine 13:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with EM. The merge is currently more useful for the readers; we are not writing the encyclopedia for ourselves. The discography article is very short when you remove the excess table info thus can be merged into this page. — getcrunk what?! 00:49, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Okay then, I've merged it in. Extraordinary Machine 14:35, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] EVOLUTION TRIVIA

My two cents: I am confident that wikipedias guidelines regarding WP:OR and WP:POV enforce my stance that addition of any context, justification, and explaination to aly and aj's comments are in violation of WP:NPOV policy. I believe that Aly and Aj's quotes on evolution should not be for any editor to explain.
This article should be about the musician duo and not a debate for merits of evolution and creationism or Aly and AJ's understanding of either theory. With that in mind, I plan to remove any comments that try to in anyway to explain aly and aj's comments and will monitor the page for vandalism that goes either way.--Kenn Caesius 04:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Misc

I took out the bit of trivia about there height. That cannot be included because they are still growing. Also, whoever keeps putting "Not This Year" as a single from Acoustic Hearts of Winter. They have not mentioned anything about it, and its too late for them to release it anyways. Its almost Christmas...! Switchfo0t813

It was originally going to be, but was scrapped due to the new album in April. Tcatron565 19:04, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
That makes sense. "Greatest Time of Year" is only getting airplay on Radio Disney and thats it anyways. Switchfo0t813
I understand that Amanda Michalka is still growing, but I don't that Alyson Michalka has much growing left to do. Alyson is 17, so I thought that by then she would be at adult height. I don't know; maybe it varies. Acalamari 22:44, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Proper genre classification

Why are Aly and AJ classified and Christian artists? They don't make Christian music, with the exception of some of the religious songs on their Christmas album and one other song that has "God" appearing once in the lyrics. The majority of their fanbase was acquired from their affiliation with/promotion by the Disney Channel, not from their music being played on Christian stations. Dukie010 07:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

They are Pop/Teen Pop, not Christian or any other type of religious music. All because Aly & AJ themselves are Christians doesn't mean their music is. Switchfo0t813 keeps changing the genre to Christian Pop. Acalamari 16:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. The word "Christian" appears nowhere on their myspace page. --King Bee 16:36, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Since when are Aly & AJ Christian pop, they have Never Far Behind on Christian radio, and that's about it. They are definitely classified as Teen pop, especially due to the fact that they got their start at Disney. Zaque 24 23:44, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Indeed; Aly & AJ earned their break from Disney. In fact, had they been "Christian Pop," we may not have ever heard of them, sadly. I can't name anyone in the Christian genre. In fact, I can't name anyone in a religious genre. Switchfo0t813 seems to think that changing their genre to Teen Pop is vandalism. We seem to be having yet another edit war here. Acalamari 20:09, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
As a matter of fact Acalamari, I suppose we are. I have compromised this arguement to include teen pop and Christian pop together on the page several weeks ago, but it seems you are leaning towards the popular opinion and are changing your mind. Aly & AJ are, in fact, a teen pop and Christian pop duo. They received major promotion from Disney as a result of Alyson Michalka's involvement in the show Phil of the Future. After seeing they had reasonable success with Radio Disney, they decided to release singles to mainstream Top 40 radio and to Christian radio, where they released "Never Far Behind", which in turn peaked at #1 on the Christian R&R this past year. They just recently released their second Christian radio only single, which is "Shine". Aly & AJ have been featured in many popular Christian music magazines such as Christian Music Planet, Contemporary Christian Music, Christian Music Today, and others, in all of which they classified themselves as Christian pop singers, and also stating that they do not only make Christian pop, but also record secualar music for those outside of the Christian market. As well as being in magazines, they are also part of numerous Christian artist databases at popular Christian websites, the most significant being www.Jesusfreakhideout.com. And, most recently, they were nominated for Contemporary Inspirational Artist of the Year at the 2006 American Music Awards. Contemporary Inspirational Artist of the Year is the same thing as Christian Artist of the Year, but the AMAs decided to change the name because some protested the use of the word Christian. If you have any further questions or need citation for any of the articles mentioned above, contact me on my talk page please =]. Switchfo0t813
Switchfo0t813, you cited that they are mentioned on Jesusfreakhideout.com. However, in the article reviewing "Into The Rush," here is what it states:
Aly & AJ had the amazing potential to present themselves as the Christian alternative to pop stars such as Hilary Duff among many others. Unfortunately, these sisters did not take this opportunity, but rather found themselves simply among the typical Radio Disney fare. Of course if this is what they were shooting for, then they have more than succeeded in their efforts.
It seems to me that your own citation says that they are not a Christian band, just two musicians who are Christians. What do you make of this? --King Bee 21:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I am currently on the staff team of that website. Aly & AJ would not be listed in the Artist Database page there if they were not a Christian duo. The staffer who reviewed that album no longer reviews albums for us, and their album review was only the opinion of the reviewer. Switchfo0t813
That's correct Switchfo0t813, I did say that you were right in putting Christian Pop/Teen together, but I've changed my mind since then because I did some research. Also, if you read your Talk Page, you'll see that I "took the comment" back due to your personal attack. For your information, Aly & AJ are pop, not Christian Pop. Aly & AJ themselves are Christians, but their music is fairly religious-neutral. All because someone is religious doesn't mean that their music is. Alanis Morissette is a Buddhist, and a rocker. Does that make her a Buddhist-Rocker? No! She's a rocker; in fact, she's a Female Rocker. Avril Lavigne is Roman Catholic, and is a Punk-Rocker. Is she a Roman Catholic-Punk-Rocker? No! She is a Female Punk-Rocker. Lindsay Lohan is also Roman Catholic, but she's not a "Roman Catholic-Musician." This also applies to Aly & AJ, who are Christians, but not "Christian-Musicians." They would only qualify as Christian-Musicians if they sang about their religion in their songs, which; of course, they don't. Acalamari 21:32, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I checked out that website, and Lauren Sommerford (the reviewer) is still listed as one of the current staff members. Obviously the review is only her opinion, that's what all reviews are. However, the review was posted there. If I didn't know anything about Aly & AJ and went to jesusfreakhideout.com to see if their new record was a Christian one, I would find out that it was not. I'm sorry, but you still haven't provided us with consistent, confirming evidence that they should be labeled as a Christian act, and not just two musicians who happen to be Christians. --King Bee 23:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Enough Is Enough. Switchfo0t813, you keep adding "Christian Pop" to their genre even though you are the only one here who thinks they are a Christian band. Even the website you purport to work for does not think they are a Christian band. I cannot find mention of them being a Christian band on their myspace page or their main website. You are deliberately adding false information to a band's page that contains people who are still alive; the way I see it, that's grounds for libel. They are certainly musicians who are christians, but they are not a Christian band. --King Bee 22:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

To start off, if you need proof that I work for www.jesusfreakhideout.com, please discuss that with me on my talk page. Secondly, you are correct in saying they do not list Christian pop as a genre on their MySpace page, nor on the home page on their official website. However, on their official message boards, one of their managers posted in a FAQ thread that they ARE a Christian group, but do not make music ONLY for Christians, because doing that would limit their audience, obviously, by a vast amount. You also fail to acknowledge the fact that they were nominated for Christian Artist of the Year at the 2006 American Music Awards, which I posted somewhere above. If the entire American Music Industry has come to conclude they should be nominated for such an award as that, they are obviously a Christian group, otherwise they would've been nominated for Pop Album of the Year. Switchfo0t813 23:26, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Is there any chance of a compromise here, or is this edit war going to continue indefinitely? Brainslug 23:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
We keep trying to compromise; but Switchfo0t813 doesn't listen to us. That user keeps undoing our edits. We remove Switchfo0t813's vandalism, but that user re-vandalizes the page. Acalamari 23:37, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Previously we settled on a compromise that we would include BOTH Christian pop and Teen pop, but someone decided to start removing Christian pop, although that is what part of their genre is. That is how this controversy began. Switchfo0t813 23:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
I originally agreed on that, I admit; but I changed my mind after doing some research. Don't use my old views against me, User: Switchfo0t813. However, I did not start changing the genre back to Teen Pop. Someone else did that. Acalamari 23:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I changed it back to "Teen Pop" twice. I thought it was an error and didn't realize this was an issue. They don't make music that mentions Jesus or God except for one song, which wasn't even released on their main album. Disney made a deal with a Christian record label so their music could be released Christian radio stations, and they speak openly about their religious views unlike other Disney Channel stars, but their music is mainstream.Dukie010 05:15, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I never stated that it was you who changed the genre, Acalamari. However, I think it would be only fair and reasonable to include both genres. =] Switchfo0t813 23:46, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't need proof you work for them. I could not possibly care less about that. Their FAQ on their message board says they are Christians, not a Christian band. They were not nominated for Christian Artist of the Year, they were nominated for Favorite Contempary Inspirational Artist of the Year. Your claim that that means "Christian artist" is unsourced. They are not obviously a Christian group. The compromise asked for above would entail that we list Aly & AJ under the genre they identify with; as of right now, that is not as a Christian band. --King Bee 03:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
We need to end this edit war now, before we're all blocked. Aly & AJ are Christians, but their genre is Teen Pop. I'll admit I agreed with User: Switchfo0t813 to begin with, but after some research, I have changed my mind. Acalamari 03:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citations

King Bee, why have you put citation needed on so many pieces of trivia? All you simply have to do is search on Google and you will find all of that information credible and true. Switchfo0t813

Then find them and cite them properly on wikipedia. See WP:CITE. --King Bee 21:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article temporarily protected

I have temporarily protected this article and blocked two users because of the edit warring going on here. I think all involved know that this is inappropriate. Any arguments need to become simple, cooperative discussions with a goal of consensus before the page is unprotected again. I will be happy to mediate. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 04:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Certainly. Shall we start a new discussion here? I'd be happy to enumerate my points. --King Bee 14:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
For everyone's information, I was one of the two blocked Users; 3-hour block for violating the three-revert-rule. I see nothing wrong with saying this. Anyway, I agree with Mr. ChrisGriswold in blocking this page from being edited; the edit war had to stop. My only concern is that Switchfo0t813 will just start putting Christian Pop back in once the page has been unprotected, and we'll be back to where we were. Acalamari 18:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, well, if it's the consensus that they are pop only and not Christian pop, and he keeps reverting, he will have to face the consequences for that. Is Switchfoot the only editor here who believes them to be a Christian group? --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 22:59, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
The only Users to agree with Switchfoot813 have been IP addresses only. However, one of those IP's could be him editing anonymously; but I'm not going to accuse him of that. Acalamari 23:14, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Essentially, yes. The general consensus is that they are not Christian pop. --King Bee 02:16, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Are there any other Users commenting on this? At the moment it seems to be Mr. ChrisGriswold, King Bee, and me. Are we going to talk further about the page once Switchfo0t813's block has ended? Acalamari 03:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
OK, so that's consensus. At the very least, Switchfoot needs to provide factual evidence that they perform Christian pop. Not original research. And then, his job is not to argue but to convinve the other users that this is the case. I am removing the protection because I don't think it serves a purpose at this point. I will be watching, but if anyone needs anything, let me know. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 09:20, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
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