Talk:Alternative political spelling

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Alternative political spelling has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Now, this is enlightening! Wetman 08:27, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The following exchange occurred in comments on the article text:

I commented out most of the lengthy lists, commenting, " Without citations, this list is excessive; I'd welcome them back with citations. I'd also like to see a citation on Demokkkrat and Kkkonservative."

Shorne restored most of the items in question 22:27, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC), saying they were "...cited many times on Google... I don't see much to be gained from specific citations for those that are widely used."

What is to be gained is to give some indication of who is using them. If they are being used almost entirely by 16-year-olds posting to each other's blogs, that's a very different matter than if they are being used by established organizations in their literature. I suspect that for most of these it is closer to the former. But, again, the list is simply excessive. Three items will suffice to illustrate the principle; the only good reason to list more would be if we can cite them being used in significant contexts. -- Jmabel 23:04, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

I can easily provide citations; I'm just afraid that they will spark a political war. As for whether three suffice, that's a matter of opinion. I don't think that the list is too long. People who search Wikipedia for something like "kkkapitalism" won't find the page unless that word is used on it. I also question your selection of three terms. I certainly would have made different choices. "U$" and its relatives belong on the list. They're among the most frequently used of all of these.

I agree, however, that we don't want pages and pages of hapax legomena. Shorne 00:52, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Again, what's interesting is what you can cite. Preferably chronologically early and/or from a source that someone should care about. Take a look at my citations for "Amerika" in the article for an illustration of what I'm talking about. -- Jmabel 05:00, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

After someone irresponsibly reverted all of my changes (including a correction of usage), I restored most and added links to serious-looking literature. Most of the stuff that can be found on the Web is just private writing in discussion groups and the like, but there are publications that do routinely use these and other spellings. I've even seen many of these forms in print.

I did omit all spellings that seemed to be used only casually, as there wasn't much point in providing a citation to some chat page frequented by semi-literates.

I'm thinking of moving the section "Beyond spelling" to another article. It doesn't really belong here, and there's enough material to expand it into a full article. Shorne 18:02, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don't see it as "irresponsible" at all - no need for that. You've now cited the information and made your additions worthwhile, which is great. violet/riga (t) 18:35, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sorry for not being clear. I meant that it struck me as irresponsible to wind multiple sets of changes back when at least one or two of them (such as changing neutral gender to neuter gender) should not have been controversial. Lately two or three people have been reverting my changes wholesale on other pages, including spelling corrections and the like, so I'm probably a bit sensitive to seeing deletions that seem indiscriminate. I'm sorry for giving the wrong impression. Shorne 19:55, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This is an excellent set of citations. Great work: this is now a very useful article.

Yes, thank you, everyone who has contributed. Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 19:00, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

If you can expand the section "Beyond spelling" to more than a paragraph, then, yes, move it to a new article (and have the two link to one another). I added that because it is an obviously related phenonmenon. Thought of making it a separate article myself, but we've got enough obscure stubs. -- Jmabel 18:39, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

I don't like the "Beyond spelling" section here. When I created this article I wanted it to be about alternate spellings only. The "Beyond spelling" section could easily become filled with things like "repug" and "demon-crat" and "shrub" and "lie-beral." I think that stuff is more at home at List of pejorative political slogans. Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 19:00, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

There are also "Bliar" (for "Blair"), "(p)resident" (implying that Bush has no legitimate claim to the office), "(s)election" (the dubious election of Bush in 2000), and many, many more of these. Unlike politicised spellings, these don't have much of a claim to being special. (Are there other domains in which people change the spellings of words to make a point? I can only think of advertising, and then it's usually just an attention-getting device.)

List of pejorative political slogans may not be the best place for this sort of thing, though it's certainly more appropriate than this page. I'll move it in a few days if there's no objection. For now, I'll add the above.

By the way, thanks for creating this article. It's a useful contribution on a subject little discussed, and I think it will grow over time. Certainly the use of these spellings is on the rise.

Has anyone seen much use of the pound sign (£) in alternative spellings? I came across an instance of £ondon (you'll find it the link on Wa$hington), but I didn't want to cite it. I've seen B£air and Eng£and at least once or twice before. Again, I won't put these into the article unless their frequency or importance justifies their inclusion. Shorne 19:55, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Surely there must be some use of € somewhere too? violet/riga (t) 21:39, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

€urope? G€rmany? Franc€? Tok¥o? Shorne 22:40, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don't think List of pejorative political slogans is the right place for these, either. I think it belongs on a new page, unless something more appropriate exists. I added it here because, at least in Spanish, it tends to be used by the same sources that use, for example, "amig@s". Maybe it's a new List of pejorative political word substitutions? And maybe part of List of pejorative political slogans should be factored out to that because they aren't really slogans? -- Jmabel 21:30, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

I've thought for some time that we should rework that article List of pejorative political slogans. It's too much of a golden wastebasket. Some of those slogans are common; some are regional or ephemeral. And I think that Zionist entity should be an article in its own right. It isn't really pejorative; it's a clear denial of the legitimacy of Israel. Shorne 22:40, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Afrika 2 San Francisco Bay View 3 Ranger$ 4 pResident, (p)resident, (s)election 5 Daly 6 List of pejorative political puns 7 Wikkkipedia 8 Proposed changes 9 Square and compass 10 Actually KKK comes from the KKK 11 £inux 12 Rammstein Amerika.. 13 Use of swastika 14 Letter K not in spanish? 15 Public School Section violates NPOV policy 16 Unorganised 17 KKKlinton 18 Klan use 19 Neutral point of view 20 Brazil / Brasil 21 Alternative political spelling#"K" replacing "C"

[edit] Afrika

An important spelling that is missing here is Afrika, used by some Black organisations in the US—but not to imply that Africa is dominated with fascism or racism. Does anyone have any information on the origin of this usage and on its intended political meaning? It is important enough to deserve a short discussion.

A link at the bottom of the article claims that Afrika was the original spelling, changed to Africa by the Romans. This is not true. The letter k is hardly used at all in classical Latin—only initially in Kalendae and a very few other words, and even there c may be substituted. The Latin word has always been Africa. Shorne 20:03, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"Afrika" is the term for Africa in the German language, which is probably where those black groups that use the "k" spelling got it from. Rather odd, considering that they are substituting a spelling in one European language for another. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.231.183.80 (talk • contribs) 16 Oct 2005.

[edit] San Francisco Bay View

The link to San Francisco Bay View should stay. An example should be given of regular use of "Amerikkka." A search for "amerikkka" on Google News will always yield at least one sfbayview article. If you feel it should be incorporated into the article itself, please do so, but please do not remove mention altogether. Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 19:46, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)

See

• http://www.sfbayview.com/100604/deeprooted100604.shtml
• http://www.sfbayview.com/071404/postponing2004elections071404.shtml
• http://www.sfbayview.com/121703/herbiehancock121703.shtml

And for more see http://www.google.com/search?q=amerikkka+site%3Asfbayview.com Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 19:52, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. Weird that the other search didn't work. Normally these should be equivalent, no? -- Jmabel 20:11, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)

Try using a shorter form of the URL. See also my comment in the main article if you haven't already. Shorne 23:19, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Ranger$

I have reverted "Ranger$" as an example. One, because I'm not sure it's political. Two, consensus has developed on this article that requires all examples to have a cite. Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 23:12, Oct 12, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] pResident, (p)resident, (s)election

Does anyone have any good citations for these as they pertain to Bush? Shorne 23:14, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You might look for something in The Nation shortly after he took office, they were listing a lot of these. I remember them on one occasion after Gore v. Bush using "president select" rather than "president elect". -- Jmabel|Talk 00:27, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Daly

By the way, what do you think of including some of Mary Daly's feminist usages here, notably "gyn/ecology" and "the/rapist"? -- Jmabel|Talk 00:27, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

I don't see why not. Maybe also a link to Womyn. Shorne 01:12, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] List of pejorative political puns

I created List of pejorative political puns and moved some of the material there that did not belong here because it had nothing much to do with spelling.

Also, I created a section "Hidden puns" in the present article for those puns that are wholly dependent on spelling. Shorne 19:09, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Wikkkipedia

Google finds two pages on which "Wikkkipedia" appears. Shorne 04:06, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

And now it will be far more, as this page is echoed to our mirrors. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:45, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed changes

I would like to make the following changes to this article:

1. Re-title it Politicized spellings (or "Politicised spellings" if you must)
2. Move puns to List of pejorative political puns

Comments? Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 16:27, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)

My 2 cents:

1. Nice and concise; sounds good to me. (I prefer the UK spelling but it doesn't matter as long as there is a link from the other spelling.)
2. Hmmm...shouldn't these to be merged, as, AFAICC, nearly all pejorative political puns are politicised spellings and vice versa. Also, where does the List of political epithets come in to this; is there any kind of clear division between what these three articles cover, and if so is it made clear to the reader?

--Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley _{talk contrib} 19:15, 2005 Feb 9 (UTC)

Here's how I see it. A politicized spelling is the same word, pronounced the same way, spelled differently. Politicized spellings are all I would like to see on this page.

A pun, on the other hand, will have the same spelling, but different spacing, punctuation or capitalization, such as "p(r)esident". Or it will be a new word altogether, such as "repugnicunt". I would prefer those not be included in this article. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 19:46, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)

Is there a good reason to seperate the two? Isn't this a totally arbitrary division? Would a reader looking at those titles, be able to see the difference and would they think of them as different topics? Why do changes in letters count as spelling but punctuation makes it a different word? I would suggest both are arguably spelling and if anything punctuation is less important than changing the letters. Why is changing the spelling any less a pun than changing the punctuation?

--Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley _{talk contrib} 21:10, 2005 Feb 15 (UTC)

[edit] Square and compass

I recently saw a Spanish poster by one of the Falange partylets, calling for "NO A €STA CONSTITUCIÓN" ("No to this [European] Constitution"). What is remarkable is that, besides the € for E, the in ESTA was a Masonic square and compass, presumedly nuancing that the European Union is ruled by greedy Freemasons or something. I want include that in the article since I only saw it in one occasion. --Error 01:33, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Error, may I presume you mean "I won't include..." as against "I want to include..."? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:15, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Actually KKK comes from the KKK

The KKK in AmeriKKKa comes from actual KKK propaganda.

[edit] £inux

Is there a citation for £inux? And what is it supposed to signify? -- Jmabel | Talk 00:22, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rammstein Amerika..

The word Amerika is the standard spelling in German, and the song itself is sung in German by a German band. Although the lyrical content of the song may be in a similar vein, I don't think it is a pertinent inclusion on the page.. i'm taking the liberty of removing it. -- Bookmastaflex 07 December 2005, 13:04 (UTC)

[edit] Use of swastika

Should we include use of the swastika as a substitute for the letter S? I've seen many examples (notably the 2004 Republican Convention in NYC) of protesters replacing the letter S in Bush with a swastika. Is there a symbol to represent this? Probably not, but we should at least include a reference. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.165.87.40 (talk • contribs) 8 Jan 2006.

[edit] Letter K not in spanish?

"A similar usage in Spanish (and in Italian too) is to write okupa rather than "ocupa" (meaning a building or area occupied by squatters [6]), which is particularly remarkable because the letter "k" is not found in native Spanish words."

Kilógramo? Kinesiologo? Kirie? Kirieleison?

Native Spanish words. —Nightstallion (?) 09:02, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

ka? :) --Error 00:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

*grins* You're cheating. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 09:25, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Public School Section violates NPOV policy

The current phrasing implies that students are in fact illiterate due to poor teaching public schools. I've added a flag so someone can check it out. 68.44.79.98 04:36, 15 February 2006 (UTC) I'll bite. Ethan Mitchell 14:36, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unorganised

I recomend restructuring the article more like a list rather than an "article" as it is hard to follow. --Cat out 12:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] KKKlinton

I've added a mention of "Hillary KKKlinton" (along with a citation) since I've seen that too.Trilateral chairman 02:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Klan use

From the article: "Replacing the letter 'c' with 'k' in the first letter of a word came into use by the Ku Klux Klan during its early years in the mid to late 1800s." I'd like to see a citation on that. The Klan stuck "K" or "Kl" on the front of a lot of words ("klavern", "kloran"). Other than "Klan" itself, I can't think of other "c"-->"k" transformations, let alone enough to constitute a pattern, though I'll admit I'm no expert. - Jmabel | Talk 22:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neutral point of view

The article seems to be biased against certain parties, such as in the $ section. I think this section in particular should simply describe the use of currency symbols to replace letters, while leaving the examples out.--GeneralDuke 16:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Nope. Examples are what it is about. Wikipedia is not endorsing these examples, simply citing them. - Jmabel | Talk 00:39, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brazil / Brasil

What is supposed to be political about Brazil vs. Brasil? It is simply English vs. Portuguese spelling. - Jmabel | Talk 02:50, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative political spelling#"K" replacing "C"

The article mentions, without any source backing the hypothesis, that the K in okupa may be based in the widespread use of that consonant in Euskera. The theory is highly implausible, the well-known radicalism of the Basque left notwithstanding; for one, it's common in other Spanish-speaking countries, as well as in Italian, which is unlikely to have been influenced by Basque politics. It's far more likely to come from punk preference for K in the spelling of common words, and the long-standing liasion between punk counterculture and anarchism. Anarcho-punk is often spelled anarkopunk in Spanish. Taragüí @ 13:33, 26 September 2006 (UTC)