User talk:AlOgrady
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Hello AlOgrady, and welcome to Wikipedia! If you want to learn more about the contribution process, definitely check out the tutorial. It's a really simple and easy explanation of all the basics.
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I hope you enjoy your stay here and feel free to reply to this welcome message on my talk page. - Craigy (Talk)
(To sign a post like I just did, enter three tildes ~~~ where you want your name to appear. The three tildes will automatically be converted into your username. Adding a fourth tilde will insert a timestamp, as well.)
Please refer me to an Enlish-language source for your changes to Horst-Wessel-Lied. If you can't I will have to revert them. Adam 22:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
You would like an English-language source for my assertion that this song does not appear in Méhul's opera Joseph. I can't actually see what is wrong with a German one, especially in connection with a German subject. I do not know of any English sources, but what I DO know is that following what it said in the article I spent the whole of Monday afternoon with both a piano reduction and the full orchestral score of the opera and I can assure you that this song is not there. Also, don't you think it odd that in an opera about Joseph and his brothers in Egypt there should be an aria about living in Germany for eighteen years and then going to sea? AlOgrady 21:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't know enough about opera to have an opinion on the last point. Wikipedia's rules, however, are clear. Statements of fact which are at all controversial must be referenced to a reputable source, preferably in English. Your statements about the opera may well be true, but so long as they are based on your testimony alone they are "original research" and thus inadmissible. The statement in the article that the tune comes from Mehul's opera is sourced, your contradiction of it is not sourced. Adam 02:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
"The statement in the article that the tune comes from Mehul's opera is sourced"; strictly speaking, of course, it is not. The web-site you refer to merely restates the legend - without source references. More importantly, Broderick does not indicate where in the opera the tune appears, he merely makes a reference to Weidemann. Furthermore, Broderick is also clearly confused, since he quotes as the title of the supposed Méhul aria "Wenn du mich liebst, kann mich der Tod nicht schrecken", which, as you will see if you look at the German article on the Horst-Wessel-Lied, is actually the title of the song by Peter Cornelius which Weidmann believed to be the "Urmelodie", the song that Cornelius heard in Weimar in 1865 and is undoubtedly similar to the HWL. Anyway, I am not the only person unable to find the song in the opera: Craig W. Nikisch, Professor Emeritus of German, Idaho State University, can't either, and I am adding a link to his article on the HWL, and coming at it from a different angle, in her article on "Joseph" for Grove Music Online, M. Elizabeth C. Bartlet (a leading scholar of 18th century French Music) refers to the fact that there are only three arias in the whole opera and identifies them. A reference to this will go in too.AlOgrady 11:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
OK, fair enough. The question then is: why mention Mehul at all? I had never heard of him until I started researching this article, so I doubt this is really a "myth" (a widely held false belief) that needs to be refuted. I will try to recast the paragraph to reflect your findings. Since I don't read much German, I will take your word for it that the article you cite identifies the source of the melody. Do you have the full lyrics of this song? A google for "Wenn du mich liebst, kann mich der Tod nicht schrecken" turns up nothing. Adam 12:26, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
