Talk:Alice in Chains

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Contents 1 Oh Yeah whoever did the logo/picture work rules! (on the right side) 2 AIC Singles 3 Obit line, Italics 4 Prior name 5 thanks 6 Staley/Cantrell 7 You got that right! 8 The Pic 9 Clash of the Titans? 10 Classic lineup? 11 Nu-metal 12 Not necessarily grunge... 13 Not Grunge 14 Sweet Alice: bootleg? 15 Photograph needs names 16 Ann Wilson joining at SAP 17 AIC template 18 AIC Singles 19 Canceled Tours and Shows 20 Picture 21 The Picture Is Gone 22 Why Does Heavy Metal be constantly removed? 23 Covers

[edit] Oh Yeah whoever did the logo/picture work rules! (on the right side)

Its made this page look way better than those standard wiki pages!

[edit] AIC Singles

Hey dude at the bottom who wants to know shiz about the singles that were released... Well i jst got the information that was previously on the page and wasnt set out very good and put the albums n singles in tables n shit so they look better so cant answer ur question anyways np everybody for doing the tables no need to thank lol chris...ChrisMHMChris

[edit] Obit line, Italics

The obit line clearly belongs in the article about the person, not the band, and that article needed major surgery anyway to remove all the effusive nonsense, so I put it there. Also, album titles should be italicized in running text, but not is a bullet list discography. LDC

Why no italicization? That seems to be more common, e.g. Bad Religion, Beatles discography, Patti Smith. --Eloquence 23:50 29 May 2003 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Filmographies and Discographies, that page would disagree, as do I. (I.e., we agree they should be italicized.). -- John Owens 00:03 30 May 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Prior name

Quoted from article: "Staley met and was joined by guitarist and song-writer Jerry Cantrell in 1987, renaming the band Alice in Chains, and, along with two of Cantrell's friends, bassist Mike Starr and drummer Sean Kinney, they began writing original material and playing local Seattle clubs" What was the band renamed from?

Alice 'n Chains. --jh51681 23:33, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

In actuality, it was Alice 'n Chainz, but no big deal.La Pizza11 22:55, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually the original name was "Fuck". They used to hand out condums at their shows that said "Fuck" - the Band. Read from AIC box set insert. Although when the Alice name was adopted it was originally as stated above.

[edit] thanks

AIC fan here (since after they disbanded), but for some reason i never thought to visit this article. thanks to all who made it a well written and informative blast. dug the chronology. SaltyPig 11:58, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Staley/Cantrell

Alice in Chains is definetly my favorite band, but I only wish that Jerry Cantrell would have allowed Layne to sing more of the songs in their catalouge (especially for lead vocals). While Jerry may have been a more consitent song writer and less dependant on drugs, it is Layne's exceptionally powerful voice that put this band over the top and Jerry's mediocre voice is not what the fans really wanted to hear in the end. TKforever 16:04, 27 March 2006(UTC)

Actually, Layne sang the majority of the lead vocals.

[edit] You got that right!

Comparing the two, its pretty obvious that the better vocals were of Layne Staley anyday I feel this certain angst (sorry for the cliché) while I hear him sing,its probably the shrillness of his voice and the fact that its not a very often heard vocal pattern that gives hid voice this certain character which sets him apart. Or maybe I am just obsessed with this bands music!

Vijeth 14:59, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I've been listening to the band for a long time, and I always liked the combination of the two voices and particularly the great harmonies in a lot of the songs. It really sets Alice apart from the other bands of the same period.12.162.189.80 19:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Pic

... looked a lot better large. Laszlo Panaflex 19:27, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Clash of the Titans?

Anyone know anything about Alice in Chains opening the Clash of the Titans tour in 1991? I've heard that was a big boost toward their mainstream success. 72.40.53.121 23:25, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Classic lineup?

the years on the "classic lineup" are misleading... the band was inactive for much of it due to Layne's health. For me, the "classic" (if there was one) AiC lineup was with Mike Starr on bass, not Mike Inez. With Starr they recorded Facelift, Sap and (most importantly) Dirt. With Inez they recorded only Jar of Flies and the self-titled release.

Dirt was their artistic peak according to most critical sources and, I would guess, is most popular with the diehard fans. Added to that, the Facelift/Sap/Dirt era was their most active touring period (although I guess Inez came in for the Dirt tour). I know I'm just being pedantic, but Alice in Chains were a very special band for me, and I loved them at a time when I was way too serious about music fandom. So it looks like I still take them too seriously.

I think perhaps it would be best just to refer to the different lineups as "original lineup" and "second lineup". Starr was an important part of the Alice legend even if he did fuck things up (and even if Inez was way better). Alice was one of those bands where you could take snapshots -- "classic" snapshots -- from various points of their career. You watch the video for Would? and it's Starr there with the intro and that is their all-time pinnacle. Or if you prefer Man In The Box it's Starr there again. The classic Inez moment was probably the Unplugged set, but man it was sad to see Layne look like that.

--217.158.132.130 03:40, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nu-metal

Due to the fact that Alice in Chains has no turntables, no rapping, and predates the "nu-metal" genre by a full decade, I can't see how anyone could seriously suggest that this band is nu-metal. They fit squarely into the grunge/alternative genre of the late 80s and early 90s. My conclusion is that the recent edits are a prank by someone who is just not a fan of the band. Rhobite 05:12, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

They are indeed nu-metal. Paul Pierce Fan 23:35, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Alice In Chains is not nu-metal. I agree with Rhobite's comment.La Pizza11 18:58, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, they are nu-metal. Stop trying to defend them as not being Nu-Metal because they are.

If they truly are nu-metal, provide a source which verifies this. Googling "alice in chains grunge" comes up with 314,000 results. Googling "alice in chains nu-metal" comes up with 65,000. I check the first few pages and most are not actually refering to Alice In Chains as nu-metal, but are either: 1)Explaining the bands influence on nu-metal (without them being nu-metal, or 2)Talking about Godsmack not being nu-metal but instead being post-grunge (because of their obvious AIC influence). If you can provide proof, I will allow you to change the genre. Until then, though, they remain classified as grunge.La Pizza11 23:03, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Please please do not insult Alice in Chains by calling them nu-metal. They were around way before any of the so called "nu-metal bands" and probably had more talent in sean kinney's drum sticks then in most nu-metal bands as a whole. Seriously, I can see the debate being Metal vs. grunge but calling AiC nu-metal is ignorant and nothing short of insulting Jason Scalia 06:23, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Alice in Chains is not a nu-metal band. If you can provide some proof, I'll agree with you upon the fact that Alice in Chains is a nu-metal band. Otherwise, every edit you make claiming they are will be reverted, and if must, we will have someone block you. Squid Vicious 19:43, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't help but notice that the people saying AIC is nu-metal are almost all IP adresses, not user names. The one supporter of the "nu-metal movement" who is a user has a vandalism message on his Talk page. Just an observation. La Pizza11 00:18, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Just because you feel the term nü-metal is insulting to them because most nü-metal groups are bad (like Alice in Chains, however that's irrelevant) does not change the fact that they are a nü-metal group. You do not see people trying to change KoRn or Linkin Park's classification to something else. PaulPierceFan 23:46, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Are you freaking serious "Paul Pierce Fan"? Get the hell out of hear with Korn and Linkin Park references in a discussion about AIC. Nobody cares about Korn, they have no relation to this article and only show your complete ignorance on the matter. Everything you say in this discussion takes me one step closer to the edge and I'm about to break. I find your answers aren't so clear and all your thoughts on this matter make no sense, you find bliss in ignorance and you won't seem to go away... 67.171.17.174 22:28, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

They're not nu-metal. Not only do sources not place them in that category, but Alice in Chains preceded the nu metal phenomenon by a good number of years. WesleyDodds 01:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't bother with this guy. I happened to check the code of the page, and in it the vandal lists the group's status as "Crappy" or the like. This link[1] shows it.

I listed them as crappy because they are. However, this is irrelevant. http://www.last.fm/music/Alice+in+Chains/+tags shows that they are categorized as nu-metal.

Yes, they have 8 votes for nu-metal, but they also have tags for genres they obviously are not, e.g. jazz, female vocalist, trip-hop, etc. That is not a valid source. La Pizza11 21:54, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Alice In Chains are not Nu-metal, but I can understand that many find them similar, as they probably influenced an good deal of Nu-metal bands. However the argument that Alice In Chains existed previous to the "Nu-metal movement" is not a good one, the music is what matters. Give a good reason, related to the music, as to why they're not Nu-metal so that everyone can see that it is so. I am also sceptic as to calling them grunge, they seem more of an alt. metal band lumped into that category simply for being contemporary to it.

"I listed them as crappy because they are". You're such a penis. There is no way that Alice In Chains could possibly be considered Nu-metal. Do you hear rapping and/or turntables in their songs? The argument about them not being Grunge is a better argument. But what does define Grunge? It's a very loose definition applied to many bands from the Seattle area.

They came out of the scene with the likes of Nirvana, Pearl jam, Soundgarden, Mudhoney, Screaming Trees, etc etc they even recorded Right Turn with members of Soundgarden and Mudhoney on Sap calling themselves "Alice Mudgarden" as a joke. how does this make them "nu-metal"? this makes no sense to lump them in a genre they predated by a number of years. I'll say stick to "grunge". Xuchilbara 04:15, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Nu Metal? Alice In Chains? Go fuck your self! They are pure grunge and even associating them with that crap genre is an insult in itself. First time I'm hearing this crap. Guys, don't let that fool get the better of it. AiC is grunge and that's never gonna change. -Ozzmen-

ALICE IN CHAINS ARE GRUNGE ALL THE WAY!!!

[edit] Not necessarily grunge...

Since grunge was such a blanket term for the emerging seattle music scene in the early nineties, it's hard to really place any one particular band under this genre. Alice in Chains were definitely more metal but were classified grunge more because of where they were from and when.

Metal? I considered them to be grunge, but not because of where they were from. I classified them to be grunge because of their fusion of metal/punk/alternative influences. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 15:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not Grunge

If someone would care to revisist their alice in chains albums, they will note that they are not grunge but metal. the reason aforementioned for being labeled grunge is widely held to be true, just ask some actual fans. and for that matter, soundgarden is also not grunge and to a lesser extent, neither is pearl jam. anyone care to comment? Lue3378 08:46, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Though you definitely have point, I disagree withyou. Grunge is the term used to describe early 90 bands almost exclusively from Seattle that fused metal and punk. Grunge music describes a large amount of bands which do not necessarily sound similar, but do have similar roots and lyrical themes.La Pizza11 18:58, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I do believe Alice in Chain's music would be best described as metal, but due to the fact they came from Seattle during the so called "Grunge Explosion" they would best fit under the "grunge" banner. Grunge was more a term used to describe a certain style of dress and locality as opposed to music. Most of the "grunge" bands did not sound at all similar. Alice in Chains was metal and belonged to the Seattle Sound genre of music, but history will always list them as a grunge band. Just my $0.02 on the matter Jason Scalia 03:55, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Alice in Chains started as a metal band but later became grunge. People used to give them shit for not being part of the Sub Pop grunge scene, although later they became friends with a lot of bands like Soundgarden. WesleyDodds 07:20, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I also have to add that regarding the whole Seattle scene, Layne Staley was close friends with both Mark Arm of Mudhoney and Mark Lanegan of the Screaming Trees, both of whom are considered to be musical pioneers of the Seattle movement.

I think that all grunge bands are really alternative metal bands, as they play an alternative form of metal, fusing punk/metal and whatnot. as somebody said before, grunge is a label created by mainsteam record companies and refers to the clothes and the culture rather than the actual music.

I agree with you because Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains and Sound Garden were more punky Metal or Punky Hard Rock. Thats what I liked about these bands! Is Guns N Roses not the real pioneers of turning rock around? They used punk with Metal/Rock but to a lesser extent than the 90s punky Metal/Hard Rock bands.

This debate will go on and on, I prefer Metal, they did tour with the likes of Megadeth, Slayer, & Anthrax and they started out as a hair metal band. But I can see them also labeled as "grunge'. Xuchilbara 04:27, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sweet Alice: bootleg?

Is this just a bootleg? [2] (look at the cover!) and [3] ("Sponge Records"?) say it is. --jh51681 01:57, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is a bootleg. [4]. This shouldn't be listed here, or noted as their first release. -- ChrisB 19:02, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Metal-Archives.com says it's really a demo. 64.142.89.105 02:51, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Metal-archives is wrong. The demos are AiC demos, but Sweet Alice was not released by the band in any official capacity. The demos didn't see official release until Music Bank. -- ChrisB 03:00, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photograph needs names

Could anyone please provide names by sitting order for the featured band photograph? thanks, Artsfiend 03:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ann Wilson joining at SAP

"which also featured guest artists Ann Wilson of Heart, who joined Staley and Cantrell for the chorus on "Brother"."

I am pretty sure it's not "Brother", but "I Am Inside", am I right?

She sings on both songs on Sap, but on the Music Bank version of "Brother" her vocals were removed. --jh51681 07:00, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AIC template

Am I the only one kinda bothered by Layne's position in Alice's template, down in the article? It makes him look like an irrelevant, touring member for the band. --Clementduval 05:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

No, you're certainly not the only one. At least in my opinion, Layne Staley was the very heart and soul of AiC, and I would list him at the top of both the infobox and the AiC template, because I am of the opinion that AiC died alongside of Layne.

However, Wikipedia:WikiProject Music would disagree with me (see Bands, section 3). They state that current members should be listed first and then former members. It's a travesty, I know, but I do feel that if anyone bothers to actually read the article, they will realize the integral part of AiC that Layne was.

Regardless, if there's enough of a concensus here on the talk page, we could certainly ignore Wikipedia's suggestions and place Layne higher on the list in the Infobox. What does everyone else think? - Runch 16:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Perhaps we could add the list of founding members above current members.

I dont think Layne ever left AiC. He lives on in their music. He sang most of the stuff and wrote some. He really was AiC. Jerry was really important too(he wrote so much) but its just easier to replace a guitarist if they leave a band than a vocalist. If I was Jerry I wouldve started a new band with a new name instead of trying to keep AiC going without Layne(like Dave Grohl did with Foo Fighters after Kurt offed himself). Lamentingvampire09 12:52, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I think this is one of those cases where the Ignore All Rules thing makes sense. It just seems wrong. --Clementduval 03:25, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AIC Singles

I'm currently in the process of gathering information on all of Alice in Chains' single releases, as I'm planning to do some big improvements to Wikipedia's coverage of the subject. What I need help with is the following:

The AiC page currently lists both "Hate to Feel" and "Don't Follow" as singles, but I can't find any evidence that Alice in Chains ever released those songs as singles. If you have any information on them, please let me know, either here or on my talk page. Otherwise, I'll remove those items from the list when I start my updates. Thanks, Runch 05:02, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canceled Tours and Shows

The article makes it sound like AIC just chose not to tour because of Staleys "health", but I clearly remember them just not playing shows they were schedualed at. They were supposed to be on the "Summer Shit" tour with Metallica, Suicidal and Candlebox. They were even on the advertising and merchandiseing, but failed to show up at either the L.A. or Las Vegas dates. I am thinking that at least 3 times I had a ticket to a show that they were supposed to play at and did not. The only time I actually got to see them was on the Facelift tour. It would be interesting if it could be researched what tours they actually did, and what tours and shows had to be canceled due to Staleys.. uhhh.. "health". Flagg 29

[edit] Picture

Where has the pic gone?!

aah there's a new pic, minus staley. i think the old pic should still be on there, although not at the top, as they still recorded everything with him. put it back i say, in the past members section 88.110.94.205 15:40, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

The old picture was removed due to a lack of copyright information. I have a feeling the new picture is also a copyright infringement, since I really don't think it qualifies as a press release photo, but I'm not going to fight that battle for the moment.

In general, everyone who has been adding pics to the page over the past couple of weeks should be sure to read and understand Wikipedia's policy on copyright and images. - Runch 23:29, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Picture Is Gone

Man rules rules and more rules, I thought Alice In Chains fans were rebels not copyright followers. Theres to many poseurs these days.

Haha, yup, you're right! Fuck the copyrights! Be a rebel! - ozzmen-

[edit] Why Does Heavy Metal be constantly removed?

Alice in Chains are Heavy Metal also so why is this removed from the info box on the left? Alternative Metal is what they are but there Heavy Metal also. Its not vandalism bitch!

It gets removed because it's redundant. By definition, Alternative Metal (which is the genre listed) is a combination of Alternative Rock and Heavy Metal. - Runch 22:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Would it not be better to put Heavy Metal, then Grunge and in brackets Alt Metal?

[edit] Covers

Anyone has a clue about AiC covers performed by other bands? I only know "Nutshell" done by Adema. Staind did that one too I think. Can anyone research on that. Would be nice to mention them at the bottom of the article.