Talk:Alexander Pushkin

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A Wikipedian removed Alexander Pushkin from the good article list. There are suggestions below for improving areas to satisfy the good article criteria. Once the objections are addressed, renominate the article as a good article. If you disagree with the objections, you can seek a review. Removal date: 1 September 2006

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Contents 1 Pushkin as a "Black Russian" 2 Gratuitous commentary 3 Murdered? 4 List of famous duels 5 Totally destroyed? 6 Foot Fetish? 7 Poland in his works 8 External link 9 Delisted as Good Article

[edit] Pushkin as a "Black Russian"

It is sometimes claimed (mainly by Afrocentrists) that Pushkin was black[1][2]. This claim is false. While Pushkin's great-grandfather Abram Gannibal was black, all other ancestral lines of the poet consisted of whites, and thus Pushkin was no more than 1/8 black. US Afrocentrists by the one-drop rule might still claim Pushkin as "colored", but that is an issue of US, not Russian sociology, and doesn't change the numbers of one African great-grandparent vs. seven Eurasian ones.

Sir, were not his parents first or second cousins(both descended Gannibal)? If so, then I would think that would one-quarter African(a quadroon)? --Anglius 21:18, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

For the record, the legal terms octoroon and quadroon are considered fairly inappropriate as a description due to their history of determining whether or not a person's civil rights were as legitimate as others (in marriage, voting rights, etc). Even mullato is considered inappropriate in English-speaking countries for the implication that the "half-breed" is a mule. It's just as easy to use "1/8th", "1/4", "an eighth" or "a quarter". Anyway, it'd be interesting to see something on how Russian society viewed a person's race then. Bobak 18:13, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, my dear Bobak, but those words were used in Western countries at that time(apparently not in Russia, though.)--Anglius 19:49, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

• Pushkin identified HIMSELF as a Negro, therefore, he made the personal choice to do so.
  • What is the source of this information, please? Ahasuerus 21:11, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

It isn't maninly claimed by Afrocentrics, many scholars claim it... in fact, it is taken to be common knowledge that Pushkin was, indeed, part black, and referred to himself as such on many occasions. He once said (concerning enslaved Africans in America): "I feel very deeply for my Negro brothers." He also made many reference to being of African descent in his novel "The Blackmoor of Peter the Great" and was known to be very proud of his Abyssinian (Ethiopian) great-grandfather.

where does it say that he identified as a "negro"? was that word even in use in russia during that time period? he was part black, and we all know, but let's not ignore the other ⅞ of his heritage. Colorfulharp233 01:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

As a longtime member of a Pushkin book club, I was surprised to read of Pushkin's ancestor being Eritrean.I think, it would be most enlightening if the contributor shares his reference.Most of the authorities I am aware of refer to an Abyssinian or just African. Eritrea had yet to come into existence-for another few hundred years. ironinmohscale September8, 2006.

The correct translation of the book was "The Moor of Peter the Great." Which is basically like saying "arab". He was part African but whether he was "black" is questionable. His mother doesn't look very black, that's for sure. Ernham 01:30, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gratuitous commentary

The argumentative note about A S Pushkin's "racial" background is gratuitous and racist. His African great-grandfather was clearly important to Pushkin himself (he started to write a historical novel about the man), so claiming that others' attention to the same subject is somehow unwarranted is specious.

Yes, thank you. I agree.

Certainly, "ownership" of Pushkin belongs to Russia and Russian literature. (Make of that what you will.)

[edit] Murdered?

I would not really considered him to have murdered, for he was slain in a duel. --Anglius 21:03, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of famous duels

The List of famous duels featured the following entry:

1823: Mysterious duel of Aleksandr Pushkin with the poet Kondraty Ryleyev, who was also a leader of the Decembrists

I've changed this to reflect what this article says. Could someone with more knowledge of Pushkin confirm that this was the correct thing to do (and perhaps expand the entry I made at List of famous duels)? Cheers, violet/riga (t) 19:13, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

• No it was not the fatal duel with d'Anthes occured in 1837 and is already mentioned in the list of duels. I am not sure if the duel of 1823 Pushkin-Ryleev realy took place or if it is an urban legend, but it certainly a different duel abakharev 21:45, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Thanks for that, but if you're not sure it's correct then perhaps it would be more appropriate to remove it from that article. violet/riga (t) 00:40, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Totally destroyed?

The comments related to Nabokov's translation of Onegin in the current (19 December 2005) article, in my opinion, do not exemplify proper encyclopedic style. Does anyone else think a more objective revision of the following passage is needed?

"Onegin is a work of such complexity that, while only about a hundred pages long, it required translator Vladimir Nabokov four full volumes of material to fully render its meaning in English. Unfortunately, in so doing Nabokov, like all translators of Pushkin into English to date, totally destroyed the fundamental readability of Pushkin in Russian which makes him so popular, and Pushkin's verse remains largely unknown to English readers."

I have a "general" comment in this vein. When I took Russian in college our teacher said that Pushkin is considered equivalent to Shakespeare in talent. She also said that his mastery of the language is so great that, unfortunately, no one has been able to do it justice in any translation into any other language. This was a professor of literature (Mary Emery of Hofstra University) who was fluent in Russian, Serbo-Croation (Yugoslavian), French, German, English and Italian and had two Ph.D's and three Master's Degrees in various fields. Given her comment, It sounds like the above description is accurate.

RickReinckens 21:26, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, Nabokov was fluent in Russian (he was born there, after all), English and French, and is widely acclaimed to be one of the finest writers of the 20th century, so I'm not sure why your professor should be taken as a greater authority than he is. I think the term "totally destroyed" is really loaded here; Nabokov's intent wasn't to make a poetical translation, but a literal one; he aimed to translate the meaning of each word of the Russian original as closely as possible into English, without preserving the rhyme. It's obviously not what one would experience upon reading it in Russian, but that wasn't his intent, and indeed he himself more or less admitted it was impossible to do. (See his famous "Reply To My Critics" in the book Strong Opinions.) So I wouldn't say that his translation is one of "destruction", which definitely would seem to have a negative connotation in this context, but rather a literal translation that didn't concern itself with the poem's poetry. The reference to "four full volumes" is also a bit misleading or perhaps misinformed; the actual translation only took up a small portion of the first volume; the rest was commentary. Frailgesture 05:59, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Foot Fetish?

Fyodor Dostoevsky in his novel, "The Brothers Karamazov", repeatedly alleges that Pushkin had a foot fetish. For an example of these allegations, see Book 11, Chapter 2 of "The Brothers Karamazov."

[edit] Poland in his works

Do you think his works about Poland should be described here to make a full image or made into subarticle ? --Molobo 08:26, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External link

Hi, I would like to add an external link to the World of Biography entry Probably the most famous portal of biography to this article. Does anybody have any objections? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jameswatt (talk • contribs) 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Note: This user has added similar requests to link to biographies hosted on the same site to about 50 different articles. Although I believe that these requests were made in good faith, adding the links to all of the articles would be spamming. In addition, the biographies tend to be not very insightful and/or minimally informative, and the webpages contain Google AdSense links.

A fuller explanation of my own opinion on these links can be found here, if anyone wishes to read it.

Hbackman 23:21, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Delisted as Good Article

This article has been delisted as Good Article, because not all major topics are covered. For instance, Pushkin has had a considerable influence on other writers and poets, like Mikhail Lermontov. Pushkin still exerts a considerable influence on Russians, and was voted number 2 of most influential Russians after Peter the Great, but before Lenin. Furthermore, both the biography and the literary legacy are very limited for a person on whom several books of more than 300 pages each could be written. Errabee 12:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)