Talk:Alberto Rivera
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Alberto Rivera is just a fraud,yet there are lots of people naive enough to believe his claims. He is a conman.
Removed a paragraph of "Rivera's claims have never been denied or refuted by the Catholic Church", as this is demonstrably untrue. See the Catholic Answers page in the links section; in particular, note that the R.C.C. has denied Rivera's claims of having been a Catholic priest - on which many of his other claims depend.
The same site also lists numerous other objections to Rivera's claims. Whether these count as 'refutation' is a matter of POV, but they can certainly be seen as such; thus, claiming that Rivera's claims 'have never been refuted' is POV. As such, I've removed it. --Calair 02:26, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Well, we shouldnt say "Rivera, a fruad from spain...". Even if Rivera himself wouldnt give others the same respect. However, it could be made quite clear that his claims can not be confirmed by any objective source whatsoever. Also, mention should be made of the fact that Chick later claims Rivera was a Bishop with the Jesuits. Of course in my opinion this has about as much credibility as the "Vatican Pornography Conspiracy", but I will try to return with facts.
Cialovesyou 14:03, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Categorisation
Per the NPOV policy, I've removed the tag categorising Rivera as an "impostor"; there may be a lot of evidence for it, but this is hotly contested. We don't judge neo-Nazis; we present the facts and let the reader judge. The same should be done here. Johnleemk | Talk 17:35, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Seconded. --Calair 22:51, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have removed the title "Dr." from Rivera's name, apparrently he has admitted recieving his degrees from a diploma mill and never having actually earned them. Kmerian 01:23, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
- That admission would be an interesting addition to this article - what's the source? --Calair 02:58, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
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- From the Cornerstone Magazine article: Alberto commands great respect from many with his alleged numerous degrees including an N.D., a D.D., a Th.D., a Ph.D., and a master's in psychology. However, he is ambiguous when asked where he received these degrees. Alberto attended a seminary in Costa Rica (the Seminario Biblio Latinamericano) with a friend from Las Palmas, but he did not graduate. That friend, Rev. Plutarco Bonilla (a respected Christian leader in Central America), said that Alberto never finished high school in Las Palmas and that he was in the seminary's program for non‑high school graduates. The school in a letter said they were forced to expel Alberto for his "continual lying and defiance of seminary authority," The known chronology of his life does not allow time for him to have achieved the academic status he claims. When Rev. Wishart pressed Alberto concerning his degrees, Alberto admitted receiving them from a diploma mill in Colorado. Kmerian 17:28, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
This is a great article. I just wanted to let you know that you did a good job. When I read the section on his claims I was caught off guard for a moment thinking they were presented as fact. The writing on that section may hit the reader a bit hard, but it's not confusing for more than a second. Good page...Paul August 17, 2006
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- Thanks, I read the Cornerstone article a while back but didn't remember that part. I've added it here. --Calair 01:41, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Alberto's homepage
Alberto's homepage has become a link farm (after the initial enter page). I have thus removed it. Since he is dead it seems unlikely it will be back, but if it is preserved somewhere or Chick has kept it around on his website or something, feel free to add it back. Kit 19:00, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Removed dispute tag
I removed a 'section disputed' tag from the page because no explanation of that dispute was offered here - feel free to re-add the dispute tag after explaining what the dispute is about. --Calair 12:09, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
- Fine, I'll make a dispute: I did not know what other tag to use. But the biography seems rather unusual... At the end he turns into an angel and saves his sister, also the catholics are tortuing him... It sounds unlikely...
- I think you may have misunderstood that section on a couple of points.
- First, the first paragraph of that section says "the following account reflects Rivera's own claims rather than generally-agreed facts". Whether or not they're actually true, Rivera did *claim* those things, and that's all this section says. I don't think his own account is available online, but you can find a comic-form adaption of some of it, including the torture claims.
- Second... there's nothing in there about him turning into an angel. It does say he 'flew to London'... but presumably that was in a plane. --Calair 03:22, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
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- In absence of further comment here, I've removed the dispute tag again and reworked the article in a way that will (hopefully) make such misunderstandings less likely to recur. The previous version claimed that Rivera denounced the Catholic Church in a Costa Rican stadium in 1967; I don't have access to Rivera's original version, but the Chick adaptation says Guatemala, 1965 - I've changed it accordingly, but if somebody can find Costa Rica and 1967 in Rivera's version, please change back and perhaps note the discrepancy. --Calair 00:03, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Alberto's Fans
It looks like one of Alberto's fans has valdalized one of the sections, adding this drivel after the book title (starting with 'However...')-
Author Gary Dale Cearley has written a book refuting these claims about the Roman Catholic Church and Islam. The book is titled Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness: The Truth About the Vatican and the Birth of Islam. However, its common knowledge that Roman Catholicism is indeed a mixture of Roman pagan practices and gods with Christian labels; these contradictions led to the world-wide Protestant Reformation that re-discovered the essence of the Christian early church is salvation through faith in a pardon by Jesus Christ---not by good behavior in any church. A large human organization commanding the unquestioning obedience of millions of people would have plenty of funds to hire agents to disrupt those who oppose them so the Rivera story is plausible.
I don't know what was originally intended for this paragraph, but it seems trashed beyond repair, my apologies to whoever got their work messed up.
I can't imagine this stuff fits in on Wikipedia, so I cut it. Perhaps Mr. Chick is a registered member here... Thedegu 00:10, 30 September 2006 -- Thedegu 00:13, 30 September 2006 (UTC)thedegu
