Talk:Agrasen

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An entry from Agrasen appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 14 September 2006.

This article is pure mythology. There is no mention of any historical evidence. In that case this should be clearly classified as a mythological article.

ghonada 09:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I object. How can you dismiss this as a mere "myth", without dismissing many other myths such as those found in the Bible, etc.? I don't see very many religion-based articles with that disclaimer on them, even though many religious myths are also not grounded in the accepted historical record. I therefore charge that such a disclaimer is NPOV, and have deleted the disclaimer accordingly. Let readers judge for themselves what is myth and what is history – by forcing judgement upon them you bring Wikipedia down a dark and dangerous path. 71.103.85.28 10:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

There is no judgement involved in calling mythology mythology. You do not mention any historical source for this article. You do not even mention mythological sources. For example, does the stories about this "agrasen" comes from Mahabharata itself ? Or does it come from vishnupuran or whatever ? This might well be just a figment of imagination of few people.

ghonada 11:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I did not write the article. I'm simply reacting to your blatant NPOV against Hindu oral history. Place a "citation needed" if you feel that's the case, but a disclaimer explicitly denigrating their oral history is ridiculous, and blatantly NPOV. Why not put such disclaimers all over Christianity-related articles too? Or are stories of angels and seraphims and walking on water somehow more realistic? 71.103.85.28 02:29, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

By the way there is no single version of "Mahalakshmi vrata katha". Who wrote it ? Who is the publisher ? Which year was it first published ? This kind of books are sold for five rupees in Indian local trains, and are result of vivid imagination of its authors. This does not deserve a place in an encyclopedia. ghonada 11:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Just to point out more blatant inconsistencies in this article, what do you think was the currency of India near the time of Mahabharata ? Was it rupee ? In effect you are writing that the currency of "emperor agrasen" was rupee, which was used about the same time as Mahabharata. If this is not nonsense I would love to know what is. ghonada 11:39, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You have some good points of criticism, Ghonada. Let's discuss them in separate sections. -- Longhairandabeard 14:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

All the criticisms have been taken care of. Removing the tag from the top of the article.. -- Longhairandabeard 16:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History or Mythology

I agree there are no historical evidence for anything in this article, except for the fact that an ancient Indian city stood at Agroha.[1] But you must agree that in India, there is no 'pure mythology'. Mythology and history are inextricably linked. If a whole clan of people traces its origin to a king, it cannot be dismissed as 'pure mythology'. If there are no historical sources for the stories told in mythology, it may very well be because they have been lost. I agree more with the tag you have put in recently than the one you had put in earlier. But this fact can be integrated into the article itself. Also, just so you know, the article was 'clearly' categorized as "People in Hindu Mythology". -- Longhairandabeard 14:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mahalakshmi Vrat Katha

Lack of internet references does not mean lack of evidence. I am trying to get more references for this. Maybe people in India can help. Let me clarify that the Vrat Kathas may be penny books sold on the street, but that should not reduce their credibility. In fact, some Vrat Kathas are written in Sanskrit and are very widely read and recited. Satyanarayan Katha and the Navaratri Vrat Katha are good examples. -- Longhairandabeard 14:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rupee

The article does not say the currency at the time of Agrasen was rupee. It only says that it was at the 'heyday' of Agroha. The legend does not say when that was in historical terms.

The legend itself is very widely accepted in the region around Agroha, and among the Agrawals. In fact, there are freizes depicting this story using life-size statues in the recently renovated temple at Agroha. Now, rupee was introduced in India in the time of Sher Shah Suri, but the legend clearly mentions 'one lakh rupees'. It may very well be that the legend spoke of one lakh coins, and the legend changed according to whatever currency was prevalent at that time. If you think this discussion is relevant to the article, we can include it. -- Longhairandabeard 14:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

NB "The origin of the word "rupee" is found in the Sanskrit word rūp or rūpā, which means "silver" in many Indo-Aryan languages. The Sanskrit word rūpyakam (Devanagari:रूप्यकम्) means coin of silver"

Therfor Rupee could be read to mean "base coin" Much like the british Pound, which origonaly ment one pound of gold, rathere than a specific coin. 62.232.65.170