Talk:Admission to the bar in the United States

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[edit] Proposed merger with Admission to the Bar

I disagree with merger. This article is already quite lengthy. Merging it into something else will only make things worse.

This article mainly deals with matters that have almost nothing to do with "admission to the bar", e.g., other degrees that might be confused with the J.D., the history of the J.D. degree specifically, how society and academia view a J.D. compared to a Ph.D., proper use of titles such as Doctor, Barrister, etc., for someone with a J.D. degree.

There is some unavoidable overlap. Perhaps the "admission to the bar" section of the J.D. article could be reduced and some material moved to the other article.
RickReinckens 07:35, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I also disagree. the JD is a separate article, rightly so. --Irishtimes 02:30, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Strongly disagree with any merger - bar admission is a completely separate process/issue. Many people get a J.D. and never seek bar admission, going into business or becoming writers instead, for example. Contrariwise, some states still permit people with no formal legal education whatsoever to be admitted to the bar. Based on the above sentiments, I'm removing the tags. BD2412 T 13:59, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Section headings added

I have not added all the section headings but will do so.

RickReinckens 05:34, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Veterans

I don't know enough about the topic, but it might appropriate to include information regarding the Acts passed by many states following major wars where people were allowed to be admitted to the practice of law without finishing law school or taking the bar exam (rules varied widely). Peyna 04:48, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reciprocity

Dear fellow editors: I added some detail on the example of admission to the Texas bar (without having to sit for the Texas bar exam) for "out-of-state" attorneys in the USA. I wasn't sure, but on reflection I now agree that this seems to belong under the heading for Reciprocity. Famspear 00:00, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I mean they might call it "waiver" but it's really the result of reciprocity. It's a lot different than Wisconsin, where you can be admitted to the bar without taking the exam by virtue of graduating from a law school in Wisconsin. It's also not unique to Texas and nearly every state allows for admission after active practice of 5+ years in another state. Peyna 00:19, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Reading [the] law"

In Georgia (U.S. state) where I am admitted it's always "reading law", no "the". I realize use of the "the" is the norm elsewhere. Shouldn't we put it in both ways? Ellsworth 21:48, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd never heard it called "reading law" before, but it does appear to be used (especially awhile ago, and maybe in England), so the current version on the page is fine. It just seemed weird to have "the" enclosed in brackets, since it seemed to be implying that "the" is supposed to be there, but it isn't used. It's also almost impossible to search for instances of the use of the term "reading law", because the it so often used as a phrase in sentences unrelated to the topic of bar admission. Anyway, it's a minor concern. Peyna 21:54, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree, with the brackets it's ambiguous. Thanks for helping. Ellsworth 22:51, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bulletize; combine

Howdy! I added some stuff I learned while working for the Washington State Bar, bulletized & combined some duplicate material. I think the most important part is to emphasize that each state & territory sets its own rules ... ... I also included a link to WA's Law Clerk Ass'n which works on some of those issues, such as reciprocity, which are a problem (... no law degree so, often, no reciprocity!) rewinn 22:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)rewinn

[edit] Renaming the article

I propose this article is renamed "Admission to the bar in the United States". This would allow "Admission to the bar (non-U.S.)" to drop the "(non-U.S.)". If there are no objections I will go ahead and make the change. Thanks Andeggs 07:04, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Sounds fine, just make "Admission to the Bar" into a more general article covering everywhere and then make this a "main article" link under the US section of Admission to the Bar. In fact, I'll do the move now. Peyna 22:24, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
The move has been completed; the article "Admission to the bar (non-U.S.)" will have to remain as a redirect to preserve history. I'll try to clean up any incoming links to all of these articles, but might need some help. Peyna 22:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC).
Thanks Peyna, very kind. Andeggs 06:46, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, well done Peyna! It seems to me that the next step is to move the "Admissions" content from Legal_education_in_the_United_States to this page, to eliminate redundancy. Any objections? I'll take a whack at it in a day if no-one objects rewinn 04:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. There is a lot of duplicative information between the articles on admission to the bar, Juris Doctor, Legal education, etc. and we should find a way to consolidate them better if possible. There might even be other articles containing very much the same info. Peyna 11:46, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merger: this article with Legal Ed in the US

  • Strong disagree -- someone tagged Legal education in the United States for a merger with this article. Bad idea: the two are completely separate issues. Legal education does not have a firm connection with going on to practice law (and thus take the bar). There is a clear line. Trust me, I've been through both ;-) --Bobak 21:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree completely with Bobak, two very different things. BD2412 T 21:39, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Legal education and admission to the bar -- ce n'est pas la même chose. Definitely two different topics, deserving of separate articles. Yours, Famspear 21:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong disagree with merger. The distinction between legal education, getting admitted to the bar, and actually practicising law is often not understood by persons contemplating a career in the law. One result is many law school graduates ill-prepared as lawyers, too many of whom, sadly, end up in the disclinary process, or worse. So I say, not just no, but good golly no! rewinn 05:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Disagree. While they are "related" topics, they are both independent enough to support their own article. If you can't decide whether to merge or not, sometimes it helps to consider whether there exists an appropriate article name that could encompass the proposed merger. In this case, it would be difficult, and banishing one or the other topic to a subheading within the article would not be appropriate either. Peyna 13:57, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
  • It appears this discussion is moot, since someone has removed the old tags. Peyna 14:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
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