User talk:AdilBaguirov

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[edit] Welcome!

Hello, AdilBaguirov, and welcome to Wikipedia! I am CTSWyneken. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Again, welcome! And if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. --CTSWyneken 00:36, 13 May 2006 (UTC)(talk)

[edit] Greetings

Hi Adil, and welcome to wikipedia. Apparently you are from Azerbaijan, and you might wish to have a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Azeri, which is intended to improve coverage of Azerbaijan related issues. If you wish to join, just add your name to the list of participants. Regards, Grandmaster 18:20, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In regards to some of your comments at Talk:Nezami

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. —Khoikhoi 02:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


Thank you, I appreciate the comments. I will review the guidelines once more. I've tried to stay as cool as possible when attacked -- it is clear that I did not start it. Was the person who attacked me warned, before or after I brought to the attention his offensive remarks? --AdilBaguirov 05:29, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that he made any personal attacks—would you be able to show me where he has? Thanks. —Khoikhoi 05:34, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Certainly - I placed it in my response today: "Also, I’d like to ask for everyone to be constructive as well as, refrain from making insulting remarks like “what an big time idiot a person has to be” or “to show the real stupidity of Mr. Baguirov” as Mr. Doostzadeh has done more than once".
Here's the full quote of his written at 10:36, 25 May 2006 (UTC) on the Nezami talk page: "15). Mr. Adil Baguirov repeats the same statement about Shirin like a parrot! But the fact of the matter is that I brought verses from other poets that consider Shirin as an Armenian. Indeed there is no mention of Turan or Afrasiyaab in the Khusraw o Shirin! Mr. Baguirov is a liar. For the rest of his statements also he can not bring the relavent verses. From example about nomadic horse milk, where is the verse? Where is the verse about Afrasiyaab? Where is the verse about Turan in Khusraw o Shirin? . And to show the real stupidity of Mr. Baguirov, it is well known that Shirin [6] was a Christian and not some Shamanistic horse milk drinker." He did later delete it -- in general, he does a lot of revisions and such tactics make a fair debate hard, but it is saved here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Nezami&oldid=55047097 --AdilBaguirov 05:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


I'd like to also note that I refuted every single statement of that person, especially stemming from this paragraph (e.g., Shirin being Armenian, Afrasiyab not being the ancestor of Shirin and Mahin-Banu, milk being an important part of diet of Shirin, Shirin not being Christian, etc.)

I wish I could have a purely scholarly debate, but my opponent is not interested in such, and uses all tactics at his disposal -- from unwarranted insults to belittling to outright misquotes and falsifications. Unlike him, I actually document all such false statements and prove why they are such and not just some propaganda slur. --AdilBaguirov 05:48, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, warned. Are there any compromises you could think of with the user? —Khoikhoi 05:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. There are three ways -- I) we can either exclude everything that any of the knowledgeable parties object -- which probably 1) means only myself and Mr. Doostzadeh as the most knowledgeable and persons who invested most time, and 2) it also means the article might have much less information.

II) We include almost everything we want, by having one pro-Iran version for every pro-Azerbaijan version of the article.

III) We negotiate and agree, line-by-line, on the content and I would like to insist on a third-party moderator(s) involvement.

In all three variants, locking the page might be a good idea.

The page the way it is (without my edits -- as they keep on reverting them) makes little sense, as 1) it is completely one sided and pro-Iranian despite mentioning Azerbaijan pro forma and 2) they intentionally include contentious and false information, such as on Shirin being Armenian.

By the way, I can take the current page as a basis and make all the corrections as I see fit, while being as rational and unbiased as possible, that is not being one-sided and admitting everything that needs to be admitted. I believe that my view of Nizami as one of the greatest Persian language poets who belongs to both Azerbaijan and Iran culturally and historically, and can be celebrated as a dual-nationality poet -- much like many other poets, such as Rudaki, Jami or Ferdowsi -- should please most on both sides of the wire. --AdilBaguirov 06:32, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Those are good suggestions. In regards to Shirin, I suggest something like, "some sourds say she was Armenian, others Azerbaijani". And perhaps we could remove the quotes section all together. How does that sound? —Khoikhoi 05:19, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent edits

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. As a member of the Wikipedia community, I would like to remind you of Wikipedia's neutral-point-of-view policy for editors. In the meantime, please be bold and continue contributing to Wikipedia. Thank you! —Khoikhoi 15:11, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Khoikhoi, thank you. Which of my edits did not fully correspond to the rules? I obviously might have not worded something the perfect way, but every single factual statement, figure, stat I can back up -- even if it's not readily available on the Web, I have those pages scanned and can easily upload to my own website for anyone's viewing or to Wikipedia.
Hi Adil. Well, the one I noticed in particular was this one. Calling NKR "so-called" reflects a certain POV. It's like saying the so-called Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Let me give you an example of how NPOV works:
Armenian POV: Nagorno-Karabakh was liberated by Armenians
Azeri POV: Nagorno-Karabakh is occupied by Armenians
Neutral point of view: Nagorno-Karabakh is controlled by Armenians
See what I'm saying? We don't want to sway the reader to one side or the other, it's their job to decide whether it's liberation or occupation, not ours. No article should be biased, see WP:NPOV for more details. —Khoikhoi 21:34, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Thank you - I understand, and that's why I thought I did provide comments in the Talk page. Any reference to "NKR" must be preceeded either by: 1) so-called, or 2) self-styled or 3) unrecognized. This is what all authoritative sources like US State Department [1], New York Times [2], RFE/RL [3], TIME Magazine [4], BBC [5], UK Parliament [6], MFA of China [7], etc. Thus, as you can see, it is very much a standard and a neutral POV. Armenian users are in violation by eliminating this important disclaimer and thus attempting to lend legitimacy to an unrecognized, self-styled entity.
Also, TRNC cannot be so-called because it has been recognized by at least one state -- Turkey, and the latter, according to the Treaty of Guarantee, had the right to intervene in Cyprus, granted it did not happen all and fully the way proscribed, but still, TRNC, Palestine, Kosovo, and "NKR" are different. --AdilBaguirov 22:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
So what you're saying, Adil, is if Armenia recognizes the NKR (which so far as I know it hasn't, which IMO is a bit strange) then you would end your requirement to have "so-called" before the name? --Golbez 18:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Technically, once even one legitimate state recognizes another entity, the latter has become de jure recognized and debuted onto the world stage, although of course there are several more important steps, such as recognition by some other states, membership in various international organizations (membership in UN is not a requirement, but very indicative of the status), and opening of diplomatic offices. Currently, so-called "NKR" is an illegitimate entity, steps below Palestine and TRNC. In regards to TRNC, don't forget that US airplanes actually flew there *directly*, and President Bush asked Secretary Rice last year to see how to make this regular. But then again, TRNC and Karabakh are different, and should be treated as such. And there are very good reasons why Armenia stoped short of recognizing "NKR" de jure, although it accorded a lot of aspects of the de jure recognition upon "NKR" (it's too lengthy and complicated to write about here). If anything, this was a masterful tactic chosen by Armenian diplomacy, which has been lead from day one by US-born or US-educated expatriats of Armenian origin.
Also, once more, I am not inventing anything or coming up with anything new -- I only insist on the same approach based on legal and political aspects, as well as consistency, as displayed by tonns of sources I've cited. --AdilBaguirov 19:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
You still don't seem to get it. Who says international recognition has to be the #1 priority for being a country? It's still de-facto. Anyways, good luck. —Khoikhoi 22:19, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
It generally is -- and was for "NKR" from the beginning as well, when they wrote letters to President Yeltsin asking to admit them into the Russian Federation, then to CIS, etc. However, my concern is different -- all I'm saying is that the rhetoric and terminology used on that page should be in line with what other neutral, Western sources say, which means preceed all reference to so-called "NKR" with any one of the three epithets. Why would this not be a reasonable request? --AdilBaguirov 22:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm just saying that I don't think the Armenian editors would be very happy with it. Also, I noticed that they've been reverting you a lot. You probably won't get reverted if you work out some sort of compromise with them. Görüşərik, —Khoikhoi 18:27, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Dear Khoikhoi, what about Azerbaijani and Turkish editors? Should we be very sensitive and appeazing to Armenian editors, and yet step all over other editors? Why? My position, as well as the position of any Azerbaijani, Turkish, Georgian, Moldovan, and other editors is based firmly on international law and on the position of the international community. Once again, this is not an "Azerbaijani view", but the view of 99% of the world, and thus it is prevailing and more accurate than the view of the dissenting Armenians. And I've also reverted a lot of their stuff - why should I compromise, whilst they should not? My position is based 100% on solid facts from ... Armenian sources! Meanwhile, those editors have nothing to put against me aside from the fact that they have been longer on Wiki (although I am on the Net since 1995, longe before many people here). The info I've include is well-known in Armenia and not really concealed, and should not be supressed by Armenian editors. --AdilBaguirov 19:23, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revert warring

Revert warring with another editor is not going to solve the content dispute. As a result, two pages have been locked for the moment, and I suggest you try to work it out at the talk page before asking to unprotect the pages. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 21:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

Hey welcome, how are you doing? I noticed your from Azerbaijan and perhaps you could be interessed in joining our WikiProject Azeri, we work together in a organized way in Azeri related articles. If your interessed just leave a message behind. Take care. Baku87 07:40, 11 June 2006 (UTC)Baku87

Salam. Will do. Best, Adil.

[edit] Azerbaijan Democratic Republic

Hi Adil,

You added the following to Template:Azerbaijan Democratic Republic:

  1. Chronology of Major Events (1918-1920)[1]
  2. Fatali Khoyski - Prime Minister (1875-1920)[2]
  3. Nasib Yusifbeyli - Prime Minister (1881-1920) [3]
  4. Mammad Amin Rasulzade - Statesman (1884-1955) [4]
  5. Alimardan Topchubashev - Minister of Foreign Affairs (1862-1934) [5]
  6. Mammad-Yusif Jafarov - Head of Parliament (1885-1938) [6]

However, the way it appeared made it just go right at the top of the article, before the intro. Is that what you meant to do? —Khoikhoi 21:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

No, thank you, you made it perfect. Cheers! --AdilBaguirov 21:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I moved the link about chronology to the article Azerbaijan Democratic Republic. Other links have already been added to the articles about relevant persons, except Nasib Yusifbeyli and Mammad-Yusif Jafarov, we need to create articles about them. Grandmaster 10:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


Adil , Regarding, your comment on Shohreh Aghdashlu , She got the surname from his first husband Aydin Aghdashlu an famous Azeri painter in Iran, but herself could be Persian or Azeri. Mehrdad 15:43, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Ali said that too, and I saw it in various websites. Cheers, Adil --AdilBaguirov 16:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Map

All things in time. --Golbez 16:15, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Golbez, not to be rude, but veracity and truth cannot wait forever. We can temporarily take down the map while you prepare a new version. Thankfully, this is an electronic encyclopedia, and it's easy to do that, unlike with print editions. Again, please don't take this personally as it's not an attack on you or your graphics skills and dedication. Best, --AdilBaguirov 21:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tigran II

HI Adil. I do not think Tigran II was Parthian. But I have done further research and I think he is of another Iranian origin. See the wikipedia thread on him and I hope you guys reach an agreement. Also on the Nezami article I am trying to do the same and make sure we all can accomodate each other. Best. --Ali doostzadeh 22:39, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Salam Ali, thanks for your message. I still haven't looked at the Nizami page, I've got sidetracked for the past week. I will look tomorrow, and also hope we can put it behind us. On Tigran -- Ali, it is not my opinion or my invention, I've cited everyone, including the Father of Armenian History, Movses of Khorene, who says that, and secondary, modern sources which clearly show that even in the cities of Armenia, Armenians were in minority. At that time even ancient Armenian language, grabar, didn't exist yet! Thus, not just Tigran, but the entire Arsacid and Artaxias dynasties were Parthian, and Orontids were Persian, and bunch of other kings were either Iberian, or Atropatenian or Jewish. When all those sources say those things -- and again, many are Armenian or Armenian-friendly sources, they have no reason whatsoever to be biased or falsify anything -- that means he was Parthian. Indeed, the Parthian connection was very strong, and it should not be supressed. No one denies that these figures are related primarily to Armenia and that they were kings of Armenia. --AdilBaguirov 05:26, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Azeris

The article is too long and Javanshir did agree to become a vassal of the Arabs 670 and then was killed in a court plot. As i said, this article is too long and doesn't need minute details on everyone. You should write an article on Javanshir instead since he doesn't have one. Thanks. Tombseye 22:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I will write on him, but what I didn't like is that all my references and wording on becoming Christian nation in 313, etc., were removed. Plus, I don't remember him accepting vassal status -- and the final subjugation happened only in 705 AD, Arabs took a long time to conquer the country. --AdilBaguirov 22:40, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
By the way, Ayatollah Khamenei is only 1/4 Azerbaijani, via his father. His own knowledge of the Azerbaijani language is very bad. Why is he so prominently featured and declares as some typical representative of the Azerbaijani nation? --AdilBaguirov 22:42, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Can you provide any references over that claim? --K a s h Talk | email 22:47, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
His official biography does not mention his ethnicity, but does city of birth, which in case of Iran is very important: http://www.khamenei.ir/EN/Biography/index.jsp --AdilBaguirov 22:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
"which was interrupted by an invasion led by Tigranes the Great, who briefly took control from 99-66 CE" - I've shown this statement to be baseless -- not even Strabo, a near contemporary claims that -- Tigranes, who wasn't even Armenian, never conquered C.Albania. There is only some info from some chroniclers that kings of Albania and Iberia accepted Tigran's suzeiranty over them -- but in case of Albania, this can't be proven, as neither the coins, nor any other historical accounts prove that. Moreover, Tigranes was in control from only 95, not 99BC, and started his conquests about a decade later, capturing Atropatene (Azerbaijan) only in 85 BC or so, and losing everything by 69BC. Hence if anything related to Albania happened, it was during that short 15-year span - and that's easy to trace, check, verify. --AdilBaguirov 22:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Azerbaijani

Hey Adil,

I see what you're saying now, I've reverted back. By "North Azerbaijan", you mean the country, right? I got confused for a second there. —Khoikhoi 03:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, by North Azerbaijan I do mean the Republic. It is an accepted terminology to differentiate the two Azerbaijan's, both in the Western literature and in Enc. Iranica for example. Thanks! Best, --AdilBaguirov 04:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
It is? I thought the term Güney Azərbaycan was used primarily by Azeri separatists, while the more neutral terminology being "Iranian Azerbaijan".
As for the Azerbaijani alphabet, yes, this seems to be a common scenario for Turkic peoples who lived in the former Soviet Union (first Arabic, then briefly Latin, then Cyrillic, now Latin). I also heard about some decision in Baku in the 20s/30s saying that the Latin script is the best for Turkic languages—is that true? I believe it was called the Unified Turkic alphabet or something like that. Anyways, I have to get some sleep now. Görüşərik, —Khoikhoi 05:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, in the West there are a bunch of books, like by David Nissman and Brenda Shaffer which use that terminology, so do Russian/Soviet authors, and here's an example from Iranica: http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/ot_grp5/ot_archeology_viii_20040616.html --AdilBaguirov 06:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cartoon situation

Adil, I understand what you're saying, but his being half Azeri or not doesn't matter. I know it might matter to you and I recommend that you write on the guy's article page that he is only purported to be half Azeri. You want the Azeris article to look good and make it as a featured article right? I've already written two featured articles and I think this one can make it too, but only if it is clear and doesn't have a bunch of excess information that people can read through links and other articles. Just please trust me as I've talked to the other Azeri editors and Ali as well who has been giving us more credibility with the Iranica articles that Grandmaster also recommended and I think the article is okay now. Thanks. Tombseye 05:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response. I am not against Iranica articles - or including ethnicty of Mana guy. But if the alledged by Iranian government ethnicty is included, then so should the one of the Editor in Chief -- he is a much bigger fish than some cartoon drawer. Can we perhaps remove alleged ethnicty (but leave all those references and links that are there so that anyone can freely read the allegation outside the article) or include the Persian ethnicity of the editor as well? I've never seen an encyclopedia mention, for example, that Eva Brown, wife of Hitler, was Jewish, or that Hitler had several Jewish generals and even a field marshall. Stalin and Beria, both Georgians, gladly killed a lot of Georgians, but it's never really emphasized directly, in-your-face, in any respectable articles. Thanks for handling this tough job -- I know you must be splitting hairs by now. --AdilBaguirov 05:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Adil, that is actually interesting. I did not know Eva was half jewish. That is a great piece of information. I think it is better that at least acadmeia tells us about all facts such as above. I wonder why they have not mentioned it!

By the way, I am not sure what you mean by mentioning in-your-face. Is that offensive to tell someone that a so called offensive cartoon, not related to us in anyway in my opinion, is not even aimed at Azaris and was drawn by a great cartoonist of Azari origin??!!! Some people had their own agenda and were looking for soemthing to pick up on something. The cartoon made a perfect excuse. It is interesting to see how many people were made to believe that it was offensive. I wonder how many people have read the damn cartoon. Persian Magi 06:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

There is a bunch of info on Hitler and Jews, a very complex issue. The reason I brought it up is to show that ethnicity is irrelevant in many cases - the Turkic states fought most viciously against each other: Mongols again Timurleng against Ottomans -- all at the same time!
Meanwhile, I don't believe a cartoon can be an excuse -- first, ayatollah Khamenei accused the foreign spies -- which is ridiculous, as it was in state-owned Iran newspaper, and second, because 100,000 Tebriz residents (see the 8 min video available through Google video) cannot just assemble in an organized fashion - it had to be due to genuine outpouring of emotions and feelings, and they were brewing for several days after the publication of the cartoon, until reached critical mass. I know how this happens -- I am a witness of USSR's demise and have participated in many demonstrations and protests, so know the crowds. But anyway, my point was that the ethnicity of Mana is only alleged by a government that does not really stand for veracity, and that it doesn't matter, yet if including, the ethnicity of the editor, a much more important person, should be included too. BTW, what's worse, is that the cartoon was in the children's section. --AdilBaguirov 07:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

It was not Iranian government who said Mana was an Azeri. They have never told us so. It was in fact Western media pointing that out first. In fact, supporters of freedom of speech and journalists are bringing that fact up. I have seen the cartoon. It was in no way about Torks.

I have seen the video and heard about it if not first hand, second hand. I was not trying to support Iranian government view that foriegners were involved. In fact, I believe they were not. But I doubt any of those in crowds had seen the cartoon. Unfortunately, after it was declared to be offensive, it became like a taboo to show the cartoon anywhere. People only heard about it and heard it was about Torks and how offensive it was to depict torks as a coackroach!!! That is it.

In fact the fact that the cartoon was in children section, makes you wonder if it was at all aimed at Torks or simply some people decided it was offensive.

Anyhow, it is sad to see people involved in any violence over a cartoon, be it about Mohamad or be it about Torks. I wonder when we are going to grow up and not accept the offense in cartoons by being offended by them. Persian Magi 08:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Latin Alphabet vs Persian Alphabet for Azari

Hi again Adil. Regarding Latin alphabet taught in Iran, they are taught for English usage only. Believe me reading Azeri in Latin alphabet is never easy for me whereas reading poems such as those of Shahriar in Persian script is far easier for me, even without all the vowels. (We only use accents for vowels in the first or second grade and the books do not have it at all apart from Quran and some Arabic sources). Regards, Persian Magi 06:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

The difference between English Latin and Azerbaijani Latin is minimal, only a few letters. Just like there are German, French, Spanish Latin characters. The reason Perso-Arabic script is easier for you than Latin is because of habit. When Latin alphabet was re-introduced in Azerbaijan in 1991, the older generation -- for example, my relatives -- had hard time, but that mainly either because some didn't remember any foreign languages (they studied German during WWII or French, and forgot since), or because Azerbaijan was in such a difficult situation, that simply could not print enough books, materials, buy equipment, organize a better media campaign, etc. Meanwhile, all the younger people, as well as those who knew English or Latin-based languages, had no problem. My view -- each Azerbaijani should know at least 3 alphabets -- Latin (both Azerbaijani and prevalent English), Cyrillic (both Azerbaijani and Russian), and Arabic (esp. Perso-Arabic script). Hopefully, this will become true after the ongoing reforms in education sector. But anyway, the Latin alphabet of Azerbaijan is clearly best for representing the Azerbaijani language, and due to being simpler than Arabic, contributed to 99% literacy (Iran still have only 80%), and in computer age, Latin is also best. --AdilBaguirov 06:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


Literacy rate is usually due to other factors. Alphabet is the last factor to blame. That is what Ata-Turk made Turks to believe; but look at their literacy rate compared to Chinese and Japanese. Japanese characters are one of the most difficult to learn characters and their literacy rate is 100%. In fact, you would not believe how they utilize technology in every aspect of their life and they do not replace anything with their valuable culutre. Persian Magi 08:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wow

For your work on Azeri-related topics, esp. the Nagorno-Karabakh talk page, I award you the corona civica. Keep it on! ~Brandmeister (talk • contribs)

[edit] NK

Hi Adil, I've posted my suggestion Talk:Nagorno-Karabakh. Tell me what you think about it. All the best, --Kober 09:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photos

Howdy Adul, here's an interesting photo gallery at User:Khoikhoi/Gallery. I thought it might be interesting for you - not sure if you've seen it before.--Kober 18:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I actually didn't see it before, thanks for letting me know. Indeed a lot of good photos! --AdilBaguirov 22:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Civility

Regarding edits such as this: Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Wikipedia has a policy against personal attacks. In some cases, users who engage in personal attacks may be blocked from editing by admins or banned by the arbitration committee. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Please resolve disputes appropriately. Thank you. --InShaneee 20:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I of course didn't mean to offend anyone. Best regards, --AdilBaguirov 22:02, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Central Asia

WikiProject Central Asia has finally been created! If you're interested, please consider joining us. Aelfthrytha 21:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Karabakh

Adil, nacilcin gardash? I have photos of Karabakh war, do you need them? if so let me know. Thanks. Ldingley 17:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi, not really, at least not for right now. Thanks. --AdilBaguirov 17:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3RR

Just a friendly warning for the NK page.--Eupator 22:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, but there was no 3RR violation -- I reverted only twice. Hopefully, no sockpuppets and ideologically motivated editors would engage in vandalism and thus make any reverts by such people as myself unnecessary. --AdilBaguirov 13:09, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Hello

Nice encounter after many years. I was corresponding with you years ago when you were in US and had this famous website. Drop me an email.

Keep up good work abdulnr 21:39, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Urartu

Look, Adil, as far as I know the Urartians are descendants of the Armenians. Whether they spoken Indo-European or Caucasian languages is a matter of debate. I honestly don't care what Britannica has to say (I don't see them as a reliable source, especially in regard to their treatment of the Armenian Genocide which they refer to as only "massacres"). What I do know for certain (and there are plenty of references that back this up), is that as the Urartian Empire fell, they merged with another local tribe called the Armens. The mix between both peoples led to the creation of the modern-day Armenian people (and eventually led to the establishment of the Kingdom of Armenia and the Orontid Dynasty). If you're attempting to disprove or put into doubt our national heritage or our history, please don't waste your time. -- Clevelander 00:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I just want to add there are more than 200 sources that back up my claim that the Armenians descended from the Urartians. Among them are:
  • Artak Movsisyan, "Aratta: The ancient Kindgom of Armenia," Yerevan, 1992.
  • M.Chahin, "The Kingdom of Armenia," London, 2001 "The new kingdom of Urartu, which proved to be the stronghold of the Hurrian race."
  • Artak Movsisyan, "Mithraic (Mehian) Writing in the Kingdom of Van (Biaynili, Urartu, Ararat)," Yerevan, 1998.
  • Artak Movsisyan, "Sacred Highland: Armenia in the spiritual conception of the Near East," Yerevan, 2000.
  • Artak Movsisyan, "Aratta: Land of the Sacred Law," Yerevan, 2001. Ararat arev
  • Martiros S. Kavoukjian's The Genesis of Armenian People, Montreal, 1982
  • G. Contenau's 19th century text La Civilisation des Hittites et des Hurrites du Mitanni Paris. p. 62.
  • Cf. the study of Neu 1996 with further bibliographical references.
  • Diakonoff 1967, 165; 1971, 157-171; 1978; 1980, 103.
  • Diakonoff and Starostin 1986; 1988.
  • Starostin 1995a; 1998.
  • HroznY 1916, 27, n.3 (the idea of a possible Indo-European or Hittite influence on the Hurro-Urartian

Nominative-Ergative in -Í/Íe, discussed later by Pedersen); Diakonoff 1980, 104.

  • Dzhaukian 1963; 1967.
  • Gamkrelidze and Ivanov 1984/1995; Xachikian 1985a, 53-54.
  • Starostin 1988.
  • 1989. Il mito troiano e l’eredità etrusca di Roma. Milan.
  • Reichelt, H. 1978. Awestisches Elementarbuch. Reprint. Heidelberg.
  • Riemschneider, K. K. 1973. Lehrbuch des Akkadischen. 2nd. ed. Leipzig.
  • Ringe, Don, Jr. 1996. On the Chronology of Sound Changes in Tocharian. Vol. 1. of From
  • Proto-Indo-European to Proto-Tocharian. American Oriental Series. 80. New Haven.

Kindest regards, Clevelander 00:07, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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