Talk:Abd-ar-Rahman III

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Silent

[edit] ==

I have reported this article as not having a NPOV. I am very tolerant of articles on history, accepting all verisons, as they reveal a lot of information. This article by itself seems great. However, the information in this article does not seem to show a netural point of view, and therefore must be changed. I will quote from the article.

"His life was so completely identified with the government of the state that he offers less material for biography than his ancestor Abd-ar-rahman I. Yet it supplies some passages which show the real character of an oriental dynasty even at its best."

This foreshadows the article's not-so-netural point of view. It says that this shows the 'real character of an oriental dynasty even at its best'. Now, this may be his or her view. It is ok to entertain such thoughts. However, this skews the author's work, and because of this, he has assumed his own opinons to be facts. Nowhere in the article is there proof of 'the real character' of the Spainsh Caliphate expect for his opinons.

"When the undoubted prosperity of his dominions is quoted as an example of successful Muslim rule, it is well to remember that he administered well not by means of but in spite of Muslims. The high praise given to his administration may even excite some doubts as to its real excellence."

This is presented as a fact, but this is an opinion by the writer of this article. There is no proof that shows that the rule of Abd-ar-rahman III is succesful 'in spite of Muslims', and that one must doubt 'its real existance'.

"Abd-ar-rahman was tolerant, but it is highly probable that he was very indifferent in religion, and it is certain that he was a thorough despot."

Again, this is an opinion of the writer of this article, and not a fact. There is also no proof whatsoever that this is true.

"One of the most authentic sayings attributed to him is his criticism of Otto I of Germany, recorded by Otto's ambassador, Johann, abbot of Gorze, who has left in his Vita an incomplete account of his embassy. He blamed the king of Germany for trusting his nobles, which he said could only increase their pride and leaning to rebellion."

This is proberly not part of the NPOV dispute, but this may be important. If what the article is referring to is an authentic saying, surely it is best to actually quote it from Abd-ar-rahman III's mouth, rather than parphrasing it.

Thus, I lay open my arugment for this article not being netural. There needs to be some editing to resolve these issues.

Silent

[edit] =

After checking at the huge backlog of NPOV disputes, I believe that just marking something NPOV doesn't mean it will be fixed. Therefore, I have taken the liberty of deleting the counterverisal passages which expressed the opinions of the writer. The main article is still intact. So, the NPOV dispute is off.

However, just because they are the opinions of the writer doesn't mean they are wrong (however, I do.) It does need to be adressed in a differnet enivorment however, like in a debate.

--- This article was written by the 1911 Edition of the Encyclopaedia Britiannica. Its views are very British-centric and have a very strong POV, so don't be afraid to change some stuff here. Still, there aren't too many original source materials for articles of this nature, which is partially why this hasn't been edited that much. --Robert Horning 17:16, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pelagius Legemd and NPOV

Is there any imdependent verification of whether or not Abd-ar-Rahman actually had same-sex desires? I am aware of one volume that gives valuable historical context to this issue, but Pelagius is not mentioned within it. I might go looking for a biography of Abd-ar-Rahman and see what happens...

User: Calibanu 11:52, 29 April 2006

Done. Coope, Fierro, Scales and Wolf are cited for their valuable contemporary historical context and background. Please note that I've only been able to sight Coope's work personally. Can anyone supplement her observations if copies of Fierro, Scales and Wolf are in an adjacent public or university library?

User: Calibanu 12:29, 29 April 2006