User talk:209.172.115.34

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When you leave the edit summary blank, some of your edits could be mistaken for vandalism and may be reverted, so please always briefly summarize your edits, especially when you are making subtle but important changes, like changing dates or numbers. Thank you.

--Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:04, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Unexplained edits

If you again introduce your edits to Marchen Maze with out deigning to give an explanation, you will be blocked for disruption. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:55, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


The current info is incorrect and also has unverified info, please stop reversing my updates which are correct. I'm *very* familiar with Namco arcade game hardware.

  1. Please read Wikipedia:No original research. We don't accept the justification that someone knows what they're talking about — we need verification.
  2. A duplicate article should never be cretaed simply in order to change its name; that's what the "Move" function is for. If you can't move an article, ask another editor.
  3. If an article really needs to be deleted, mark it with an appropriate template. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:37, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ADMINS, check on this guy!!!

I really mean please, pretty please, take a look at his "contributions": he has made very similar edits with User:Gingerfield rocks and User:193.164.112.20. Yet another sockpuppet? EpiVictor 11:22, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Has he used more than one account to vote in AfDs, etc? Has he used more than one account to fake consensus? There's no rule against editing from different IP addresses, or even from different named accounts, only against misusing them. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:45, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Well...there is a sockpuppetry policy if I'm not wrong, and the user above has a well known history of vandalism, blankings and pointless additions/deletions especially to Namco related articles, as well as having at least one certified sockpuppet. Anyway, I'm not an admin, so I cannot investigate more than his "work" makes it appear. EpiVictor 17:36, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The admins should check on you !!

I've provided info in the edit summary on my updates and added links to the discussion page, you choose to ignore them. I've played the game and have written my own emulator for the hardware, my info is correct. I've provided links and you can download MAME and the roms and check for yourself. Frankly if you actually knew about these games you wouldn't question my submissions, you come across as being no more qualified to update the Namco entries than gingerfield.

Well, I don't know if you were referring to me, or even if this is a comment from User:209.172.115.34, however.... so, it seems we have an anonymous emulator writer who knows better than the MAME team that the game (you probably know which one) is called in a certain way and not in another]]? And that same anonymous -misunderstood?- emulation author makes anonymous edits without EVER providing a hint of a link, or at least "settling" for a double-naming convention? Anyway...in the unlikely case where you are NOT a sockpuppet of User:gingerfield rocks, he and his suspected sockpuppets were the only users which "defended" the name "Berabow Man" over "Beraboh Man", with excessive zeal and questionable practices (blanking, article duplication & search/replace). Oh and MAME calls it "Beraboh Man" and doesn't even support a CLONE named Berabow Man :-( EpiVictor

[edit] Block

Blocked for a short period in an attempt to cool you down, and give you a chance to think about provideing genuine citations and explanations for your changes. When you come back, if you explain why you refuse to allow the month of release, the existence of a soundtrack album, etc., to remain, then your edits will be allowed to stay. If you continue arrogantly to insist that we should let you do what you like because you know best, you'll fail. Think about it. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:20, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] One more try at reason before requesting arbitration

For starters not everyone has a static IP address, having a dynamic IP address does not automatically equally bad. Next some people actually post info to improve the accuracy of the entries, it is supposed to be a user edited online encyclopedia, is it not ??

As for the postings, I've told you before the Marchen Maze is a Namco System 1 game and all Namco System 1 games have a resolution of 288 x 224 (the vertical games use a monitor rotated 90 degrees). Marchen Maze is a horizontal game. I've provided links to info which you chose to ignore, I'll provide them again:

http://caesar.logiqx.com/php/emulator_game.php?id=mame&game=mmaze http://www.arcade-history.com/history_database.php?page=detail&id=1560

Also as I stated you can download MAME and the game roms and run the game and it will clearly state the game resolution of 288 x 224. By not checking any of this and simply reverting the entry you are willingly posting incorrect info. You could also check the Namco System 1 article on Wikipedia which I created by the way.

Next if you look at the game, the game flyer or run the game in an emulator you will see the game is based on the Alice in Wonderland story. Additionally if you go into service mode and goto the settings screen you will see the initial number of lives is referred to as ALICE (default ALICE 3).

Next I did not remove the album info, I moved it to the end of the article which was reformatted to match other Namco articles.

Finally I removed the release month and day because this info is unverified and there is no source to check. You're complaining that I haven't provided sources (which I have) yet you want to keep unverified info ?? That's hypocrisy.


Pac & Pal - again if you run the game in MAME or look at screen shots of the title screen you will clearly see a bright red ampersand NOT the word "and", again some links (which I provided but you apparently deleted):

http://caesar.logiqx.com/php/emulator_game.php?id=mame&game=pacnpal http://www.arcade-history.com/history_database.php?page=detail&id=1911


Berabow Man - again if you run the game in MAME and look at the default high score list you will see the name "BERABOW" in the list. This is how Namco refers to their own game, not "BERABOH". Also there's a list of games in the PlayStation 1 compilation Namco Museum Volume 1 which also refers to the game as "BERABOWMAN".

As for gingerfield, I have reversed many of this user's postings since they are often inaccurate and contain unverified info.

  1. This tiny stub of an article is perfectly clearly and correctly formatted; it doesn't need dividing into separate sections (see Wikipedia:Use subheadings sparingly).
  2. You supply references to third-party Websites (notoriously bad at getting typography right), but not to Namco; when I searched the Namco site, I could find no mention of any of them, under any of the variations you're arguing over. Googling found that the "Pac and Pal" style was extremely common (e.g., [1], [2], and [3], just to give the first three), and the same for "Beraboh" (e.g., [4], [5], [6], and [7]).
  3. Too much of your reasoning is little more than "I'm right, I know about these things, you should let me edit as I like without interference". It doesn't work like that. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:30, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I'll grant you the first point though the resolution is definitely 288 x 224 and the game is in fact based on the Alice in Wonderland story.

As for you second point, Namco doesn't have info on their old arcade games on their site. Also you complain about me providing third-party links but this is all you provide ?!?

That was my point. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 23:10, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Have you actually downloaded MAME and run the games ??

No, no (one for each question mark). Nor do I intend to. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 23:10, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Plus you ignore the screenshots of the title screen for Pac & Pal which you could also verify be running it in MAME. Ditto for Berabow Man. I provide the info and tell you how to check it for yourself in the game itself via an emulator and you outright refuse.

As for you final point, your reasoning comes across as "well I'm an admin and can do whatever I want and ignore whatever I want". I understand that the user gingerfield rocks posted a lot of incorrect info including the unverifiable months and days, I AM NOT HIM/HER. Also whether you want to believe it or not I really do know a lot regarding old arcade games particularly Namco games. I decided to add what I know about these games to the Wikipedia to help make it better but you have only used your admin privileges to bully and lord over the database. You seriously need to take a step back and consider that not everyone comes here to post incorrect info, some people actually do know what they're talking about. Also at least for arcade games you need to check in MAME or another emulator before dismissing info out of hand. Please think about it.


By the way regarding Berabow Man - in the game rom file bm1_p7c.bin at offset 9F93h you will find BERABOW (this is the first name entry in the game's default high score table). This is from the game itself.

Many people are certain that their information is correct, thought it's contradicted by other people's information about which they're equally certain. We have a policy against original research partly for that reason. We don't accept claims like: "In the centre of Madagascar there's a cave with a dead wombat; it's not mentioned anywhere, but you only have to go there to see that I'm right. I know what I'm talking about." I'm no more going to download old arcade games and an emulator than I'm going to travel to Madagascar. The need for citations is Wikipedia policy, not my personal whim. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 23:10, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


About "Berabow" that can quite well be the usual zany Japanese mispelling a-la "All your base are belong to us", and a word ending with -ow doesn't appear a proper "latinization" of a japanese term (Beraboh is supposed to mean "unequaled"). It IS true that "Berabow" appears in the high scores, I acknowledge that, but is that enough to call the whole game "Berabow Man"? If it's true that Namco Museum Volume 1 actually refers to it that way, can at least an official link be provided, AT LAST? Also, to make you feel more confortable:

  • You don't sound/write like Gingerfield rocks...I'll give you that.
  • Your argumentations are different...but still too poor.
  • Why don't you just add as a trivium such as "The game is called 'Berabow Man in Namco Museum Volume 1 for the Playstation", and leave the rest as is? Or isn't that good enough for you? EpiVictor 00:16, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


Finally someone verified something I said with MAME. My info is generally based on the actual games. EpiVictor since you verified that what I said about BERABOW is there then if you don't mind would you please verify for this bloody admin that Pac & Pal uses an ampersand on the title and that Marchen Maze is based on the Alice in Wonderland story (watch the intro sequence at the start of the game and check that the game settings use ALICE for initial lives in service mode) ? The bloody admin refuses to even run MAME and look at the games themselves which is the absolute firsthand reference.

How can I possibly provide a link for something in Namco Museum Volume 1 ? It's a PlayStation 1 game, anyone who has it can look at the history of Namco games in the museum section and see BERABOWMAN in the list. Also there's a scrolling list of games in Dragon Saber which appears if you complete the game (which is very hard to do) but the list was reproduced here - http://namgame.hp.infoseek.co.jp/drasay3.html

If Namco refers to the game as "Berabow Man" then that is how it should be listed. The same goes for Pac & Pal, that's what it says on the title screen.

Finally in all honesty it shouldn't be this hard to submit info. Also someone who isn't even interested enough in classic arcade games to bother to play them should NOT be administering entries about them as this is doing a disservice to the Wikipedia and anyone who wants to lookup info about these games. Any info you find on the web is going to be secondhand as Namco doesn't maintain info about 15-25 year old arcade games on their website. At best you can check well known websites and those are the links I provided.

Well...I could have a go at these games too, even if I'm not particularly interested. Regarging Berabow/Beraboh, I can try and do some reference digging for you (and me too, since I'm really curious at that point). However, it appears the game (except for the "English" NEC version called Bravoman) never had a "properly official" latinized name by Namco, as the "Chozetsou Rinjin" etc. title seems more like a forced latinization of the Japanese name introduced by MAME teams, and "Berabow", especially if you found it as "BERABOWMAN" (in one capitalized, unspaced string) seems to indicate some neglect or, in the best of cases, a poor "translate as you type" job by some bored translator some decade ago :-). I'll see what I can find (surely, namco's policy doesn't help). I won't "push" anything however if I cannot back it up, and I won't violate wikipedia policies by doing so.
With the info we have, regarding Beraboh/Berabow, all that we can SAFELY say is:
  • MAME calls it "Beraboh Man".
  • Latinizations for Japanese terms usually end in -oh, not -ow.
  • Namco refers to it as "BERABOWMAN" in what seems a poor/inaccurate translation job.
  • Not many (if any) official sources, maybe "BERABOWMAN" is a postume name.
  • The word "BERABOW" appears on the high scores, but again, it seems like a case of poor translation/latinization.
With the sources at our disposal, that all that we can say, for now. I hope you understand how wikipedia works, I had to back off many times from arguments I could not sufficiently back up :-)EpiVictor 14:30, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


Regardless of possible translation issues Namco refers to the game in English as "BERABOW" in three places (game itself, list in Dragon Saber and Namco Museum Volume 1 PS1). My feeling is if this is how Namco refers to the game then that's how the game should be referred to in English. Perhaps "BERABOWMAN" was a misspelling of "BRAVOMAN" (based upon the one English translation of the game). Only Namco would know for sure.

Also I feel that lettering and special characters used in a game name on the title screen and/or cabinet marquee should be used as the game name (i.e. King & Balloon, Warp & Warp, Pac & Pal). This is same as listing the hyphen in "Pac-Man" and "Rally-X" and the period and exclamation point in Universal's "Mr. Do !"

I still say the best source of info about these games are the games themselves, that seems like a no-brainer. There is no official source online as Namco doesn't maintain a public historical database, if did they I would've linked to it. The best source you'll find online now are sites like the Arcade History Database or the Killer List of Videogames (KLOV). I'm a big fan of classic arcade games, particularly Namco and have already looked into this myself. I thought it would be nice to put what I know about them into the Wikipedia but frankly I'm now somewhat turned off thanks to the actions of the damned "Wiki Nazi" admin who by his own admission doesn't even care about these games.

Well I don't appreciate your implications that either I'm a liar, vandal or don't know what I'm talking about. Next time don't jump to conclusions, especially in regards to a topic that by your own admission you don't really care about and have no interest in verifying submissions for via the actual source material (the games themselves).


Well...(responding to User:209.172.115.34) at least for Bravoman/Berabow/Beraboh (or whatever :-) I guess we could include the info as a separate trivium or even a section of its own and end the "controversy" forever, cite the "sources" (the ripped Dragon Saber ending also seems ridden with mistakes and some games are missing from the timeline e.g. where is Wonder Momo? ) and maybe have a double Beraboh/Berabow reference throughout the article but NOT pretend to change all references arbitrarily to one or the other. The double naming (including the more infamous "Bioboxer") convention is actually used throughout the article, where appropriate, and there's no need to expand each "Beraboh" reference to "Beraboh/Berabow". Just a few mentions, a separate trivia section and that should do it, considering that our sources are obscure at best. For the other games (Pac & Pal etc.) I don't know what's going on, but I'd suggest sticking with MAME conventions and, if it SO important, use a double naming convention throughout the article, or a separate trivia section. EpiVictor 11:06, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

By the way I wasn't even initially concerned with the Bravoman article, it's listed as Bravoman (the English name) and that's fine. You brought it up so I pointed out that it is indeed listed as BERABOW in Namco sources.


MAME calls it Pac & Pal because that's the correct name. The "Pac and Pal" article should be renamed to "Pac & Pal". King & Balloon is part of Namco Museum Battle Collection and the game logo is on Namco's own site - http://namco-ch.net/namco_museum_vol2/king_balloon/index.php

The list in Dragon Saber is part two of the list, part one is appears at the end of Dragon Spirit and is reproduced here - http://qtchicks.hp.infoseek.co.jp/namco_draspimystery.html

Note these lists also contain month and year of release and since they're in Namco's own games then these can be considered official sources of info BUT before using the months in these lists you should try and double check with info on Namco's Japanese site (http://www.namco-ch.net) for the games which were released in the Namco Museum series on the PlayStation 1 (if they still have the info). I once tried to compile a list for myself and found conflicting month info between these lists and info on Namco's site but that was a couple of years ago. Personally I feel listing the release year which is easily verifiable is sufficient.

[edit] Release months aren't good

Case in point, the Dragon Saber list says 1987 10 for Pac-Mania (I verified this in the roms) but the info page for Pac-Mania in Namco Museum Volume 5 for the PS1 on Namco's own site says 1987 11 (http://namco-ch.net/nm_vol5/vol5-pacmania.html) - both sources are from Namco but one has to be a typo. Much better to simply go with the year 1987 as listed in the game's onscreen copyright. Months and especially specific days are dubious at best.

[edit] Dubious dates

Can someone provide a valid source which lists an exact release date ? If not then this should be changed to the year only which is easily verifiable by looking at the game itself. It's sheer hypocrisy to keep that in the article (which was posted by gingerfield !) and rant and rave about my postings which can in fact be verfied by playing the game !

We all know that you are gingerfield, trying to play Wikipedia as a whole as if it were the sucker to your lame-assed attempt at an elaborate con to take the heat off yourself is just pathetic. Go scream about hypocrisy on a forum somewhere where you can at least be ignored and still maintain some dignity.

[edit] Ridge Racer

See here. -ZeroTalk 01:48, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your edit to Anji Mito

Your recent edit to Anji Mito was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Wikipedia articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // Tawkerbot2 18:11, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

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