User talk:209.139.106.173

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[edit] William E.B. Starkweather

Hi, there is some concern amongst other editors about the amount of material which you are putting on Wiki about William E.B. Starkweather. This has now been removed, as it considered to be excessive. He is not a major artist. He may merit an article, but because you've put so much on, it has now caused a reaction against him. This isn't right either, but I suggest you go to this page Talk:William E.B. Starkweather and give an explanation about this artist with whatever sources and references you have to justify his inclusion.

Tyrenius 16:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved & reformatted material

The following discussion has been merged in here from Talk:William E.B. Starkweather (after deletion some months ago, and restoration today).
--Jerzy•t 07:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Starkweather spam project

The artist

William E.B. Starkweather::used-by
William E. B. Starkweather::used-by
William Starkweather::used-by

seems, at WP, to be a project of

209.139.106.173 (talk • contribs)

who has a nearly single-minded devotion to the fellow, to the point of listing him as a novelist by virtue of the bios he wrote.

Among 209's WEB-Starkweather insertions (see their contribs below), there is none i am leaving as they left it. Details below at #March 23 Disposition.

[edit] Who was WEBS ?

At a Google cache one can find info from askart.com (which restricts access to the full text of bios). The cache says that William Edward B Starkweather, aged about 20, studied in Paris for 2 years and discovered Joaquin Sorolla's work. He taught in a NYC private school for 2 or 3 years, then went to Spain and Sorolla, who introduced him about 5 year later to Archer Huntington who apparently got him the Hispanic Society asst. curatorship that he held for the next 7 years.

It also says one Renee Gluckman contributed to the bio information she found pasted to the back of his 1948 "The Port at Peggy's Cove, N.S. Canada": she mentioned his Who's Who in America 1936-57 entry and transcribed a New York Times obit dated May 15 1969, saying that he'd studied at the Art Students' League that some of his work had been owned by the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Brooklyn Museum and Institutode de Don Juan i Madrid (Institutode de Don Juan in Madrid? Instituto de Don Juan in Madrid?), taught at "Cooper Union, the Traph----School and Pratt Institute", and, from 1936-1946, at Hunter College. (The four dashes, like another run of five, may represent illegible info in the clipping.)

The obit makes him the author of Drawings and Paintings by Francisco Goya in the Collection of the Hispanic Society of America.

[edit] The spam

209's contribs follow, with those to the same article grouped together. (Accomplishing this grouping changed the order of entries in only three cases, identified via italics. The bold titles have WEBS red links, in all but one case placed by 209.)

  1. 17:17, 22 March 2006 List of biographers (→Some notable authors of biographies) (top)
  2. 17:11, 22 March 2006 List of people by name: Sta (→Stara - Stark) (top)
  3. 17:43, 17 March 2006 List of novelists from the United States (→S)
  4. List of American artists
    • 17:36, 17 March 2006 List of American artists →Individuals and their Field)
    • 17:33, 17 March 2006 List of American artists (→S)
  5. 17:38, 14 March 2006 John Henry Twachtman (top) (Mention but no links)
  6. Portal:Arts/Things you can do
    • 17:42, 13 March 2006 Portal:Arts/Things you can do
    • 17:57, 8 March 2006 Portal:Arts/Things you can do
  7. 18:24, 10 March 2006 Watercolor painting
  8. 18:19, 10 March 2006 Painting (→Modern and Contemporary)
  9. 18:12, 10 March 2006 List of illustrators (→S)
  10. 18:10, 10 March 2006 Illustration (→History)
  11. 18:05, 10 March 2006 Visual arts (→Common types of visual art) (No mention)
  12. 17:56, 10 March 2006 Wikipedia:Requests for expansion (→March)
  13. 17:32, 9 March 2006 American Impressionism (top)
  14. 17:29, 9 March 2006 Impressionism (→Painters known as impressionists)
  15. Wikipedia talk:Requested articles -- (Mentions but no links)
    • 12:43, 9 March 2006 Wikipedia talk:Requested articles (→Illustrators and Book Illustrators)
    • 12:38, 9 March 2006 Wikipedia talk:Requested articles (→Moving entries)
    • 12:36, 9 March 2006 Wikipedia talk:Requested articles
  16. Wikipedia:Requested articles/Culture and fine arts
    • 20:04, 8 March 2006 Wikipedia:Requested articles/Culture and fine arts (→Paintings)
    • 19:44, 3 March 2006 Wikipedia:Requested articles/Culture and fine arts
    • 19:41, 3 March 2006 Wikipedia:Requested articles/Culture and fine arts
  17. 18:17, 8 March 2006 Wikipedia:Articles for creation/2006-03-10 (William E.B. Starkweather)
  18. 18:12, 8 March 2006 List of painters by name (→S)
  19. 18:06, 8 March 2006 Portal:Arts/Did you know
  20. Luigi Lucioni -- (Mention linked to William Starkweather by another user)
    • 17:56, 7 March 2006 Luigi Lucioni
    • 17:54, 7 March 2006 Luigi Lucioni
  21. 17:31, 7 March 2006 Artist

[edit] '06 March 23 Disposition

_ _ I am removing all the WEBS refs within the main namespace, in the belief that Starkweather is non-notable. I am converting the refs in other namespaces to lks to the section containing this one.
_ _ If someone turns up evidence of WEBS being more than a footnote, it will cast some light on which of these edits should be restored. Most of them are surely severe overreachings, even if an article is called for: e.g., there are much better examples than WEBS of "Impressionist" as a case of Artist#Examples of art and artist.
--Jerzy•t 05:01, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article

I have also noticed WEBS spreading everywhere and it is a good thing that he has been severely pruned. However, I would be happy to see an article if someone wants to do one—I'm actually interested now in finding out more about him! I was going to do a revert, but got the info about him being in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Brooklyn Museum etc., and consider this to be sufficient for notability. It's not as if he's just someone's aunt painting. My argument is that Wiki can afford to provide info on such people, where books will not.
Tyrenius 05:45, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Museums are full of stuff they never display. They apparently did buy (or accept) some of his work, but even verification that they still hold it does not demonstrate that he matters enuf for them to display it and consider it important to art history. Some museums have stuff left to them as part of a collection in an estate; it may be they can't sell it or throw it in the East River without returning the rest of the bequest to the other heirs, they may feel they need to demonstrate respect for the bad taste of past donors in order to reassue future ones that their taste will never be questioned via "deaccession".
I don't say he is insignificant, but
  1. his significance is not demonstrated, and
  2. IMO, the spamming deprives him of any presumption of notability that might otherwise flow from 209 being ga-ga over him.
    --Jerzy•t 06:05, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

If WEBS is in those museums, then it is just speculation as to how/why etc he has ended up in the collections. I've searched the Met, Brookly and Hunter and can't find him. That doesn't mean he's not in the collection, but if he is, then it needs to be proved. At the moment, there is no proof. However, he does seem to exist, from the following google results:

Title: Artists at Hunter: William E. B. Starkweather, the Travel Pictures. Author: NY: Hunter College, September 15 to October 31, 1988. Description: 1988. White ill. stapled wraps. [13] pp. Several bw plates VG.
At auction: [1]

[edit] Wikiquette

It is obviously irritating to have to remove all the excess entries, but this shouldn't be allowed to create an equal and opposite reaction against the subject, who would otherwise not present an issue, if there were just an article stub with the artist dates and a couple of references. And remember not to bite the newbie. We have a potentially enthusiastic editor and should communicate Wiki policy so (s)he can contribute constructively in future. This is not spam in the sense of promoting a commercial product, or even self-promotion. It is at least for a historical subject. I was surprised there was nothing on the editor's talk page User talk:209.139.106.173, which is the first courtesy if all their edits are being removed. I have left the following:

Hi, there is some concern amongst other editors about the amount of material which you are putting on Wiki about William E.B. Starkweather. This has now been removed, as it considered to be excessive. He is not a major artist. He may merit an article, but because you've put so much on, it has now caused a reaction against him. This isn't right either, but I suggest you go to this page Talk:William E.B. Starkweather and give an explanation about this artist with whatever sources and references you have to justify his inclusion.

Tyrenius 17:01, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

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