Talk:1997 East Asian financial crisis
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Asian, not east Asian crisis is the widely used description for this event
more importantly east asian is not used as a descriptive by anyone of consequence. The commonly used terms for various sub-regional groupings are far east (japan, china, korea), southeast asia (singapore, malaysia, thailand, indonesia, philippines and ASEAN vietnam, cambodia, laos, burma), indochina (vietnam, laos, cambodia), south asia (india, pakistan, bangladesh, sri lanka), and sometimes the pacific islands (papua new guinea, solomon islands, tonga, vanuatu). australia is also geographically asia (asia-pacific).
[edit] Contradiction
Mainland China, Taiwan, Singapore and Vietnam were relatively unaffected. Japan was not affected much by this crisis but was going through its own long-term economic difficulties.
Though called the "East Asian" crisis because it originated in East Asia, its effects rippled throughout the globe and caused a global financial crisis, with major effects felt as widely as Russia, Brazil, and the United States.
Am I the only one who sees a contradiction here?
[edit] Problems with this Article
This is one of the lower-quality articles that I have read on Wikipedia: it mixes fact and opinion in many instances and and at the end makes the broad and economically unfounded assertion that all macroeconomic policies (i.e. all large-scale, market-wide economic changes) are bound to fail. Is there some process we can all go through to re-write this from the ground up?
[edit] Mexico
The Asian financial crisis actually started in Mexico, such as was contagion at the time it spread to Asia and because most of the action was in Asia it became known as the Asian Financial crisis. Happy to jot a small piece on this if welcome?
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I added new information about the Indonesian side of this crisis. For those who might be curious about my source, its Michael Pettis, THE VOLATILITY MACHINE (2001), a very insightful study of the liquidity-trap difficulties that arise for emerging economies.
My Indonesian friend said that during the crisis, a lot of indonesian people further compounded the problem by selling out their own currency and buying foreign money (such as USD) and send it out of the country. Some people got rich at the expenses of the rest of the country.
[edit] Speculative attack
I took out the article's first mention of the phrase "speculative attack" because it sounded like nonsense. Noticing that it appeared a few more times in this article, I did some more checking, and discovered that it's a real expression people use sometimes. But I couldn't find a clear source as to what exactly it means. Can anybody help me out? - Nat Krause 07:38, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
It refers to the situation that can arise when a government or central bank pegs its currency against another currency, and private traders are skeptical of its ability to keep that commitment, so they bet against it. Consider 1992, when several European nations, including the UK, were co-ordinating their currency moves in expectation of creating a common currency. Soros became skeptical that the Bank of England could support the pound to the extent necessary to keep it within the required range, and became short-selling it. This forced the Bank of England, in order to stay within the system, to buy pounds. If Soros had broken first he would have lost a bundle -- as it was, though, other speculators jumped on the selling bandwagon, the central bankers gave up first, allowed the pound to fall out of the ERM, and Soros made a billion of them in the process. (That is why the pound remains a separate currency from the euro today.) That is a paradigm speculative attack. --Christofurio 12:22, Oct 12, 2004 (UTC)
I also took out a mentioning of "illegal" speculative attacks in the horribly error ridden section on Malaysia. I left most of the errors up because some people believe them, alternative (and correct) explanations are below. - Gibby
Malaysian law doesnt permit trading of Malaysian shares except through KLSE and legitimate registered brokers. The dumping of Malaysian shares in Singapore on the Central Limit Order Book (CLOB) system were all illegal derivative trades.
[edit] IMF crisis = Asian crisis?
You say "It is also commonly referred to as the Asian currency crisis or locally, although inaccurately, as the IMF crisis." Could you expand a little this earlier on in the article? It's at least controversial among Stiglitz et al.
I'm also a little concerned about this re pov. The term 'IMF crisis' does not seem to me sufficiently uncontroversially inaccurate as to justify the qualifier "although inaccurately", in particular in the first line of the article. Could this be removed, or added later? Jamestplunkett 20:02, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
- In Korea at least, that time is nearly always referred to as "the IMF time", "the IMF crisis", or just simply "the IMF". It's an accurate term only if you think the IMF created the crisis. You could argue that the IMF's advice to Korea made the situation worse but that is not the same -- and frankly, every country wound up taking the IMF's help out of their own free will. It's doubtful their economies would have recovered as they did without the IMF.ThreeAnswers 05:11, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Announcing Wikipedia:Indonesia-related topics notice board
After some thought and consideration, I created an Indonesia-related topics notice board, along the same lines as other regional notice boards (such as those for Malaysia and Africa). This was established to coordinate efforts to improve Indonesia-related Wikipedia entries. If you've made contributions to Indonesia-related articles in the past, or would like to, please take some time to visit, introduce yourself, and sign the roster. --Daniel June 30, 2005 18:44 (UTC)
[edit] Comments from a Thai
Hi, I am a Thai here. I want to comment about this article. First of all, to the person who asked about this, IMF was very prominent to the local people at the time and "IMF Crisis" is not so inaccurate. What I really want to comment is, however, the fact that the crisis is also known as "Tom Yum Kung Disease". Tom Yum Kung is a very famous Thai food and SE Asia called the crisis Tom Yum Kung Disease since it started from Thailand.
[edit] Russian financial system
Russian financial system had also catch fire meanwhile (we know it as "an August"). So this should not be really called asian, it affected a lot of countries which had economic growth worldwide.
[edit] Yesterday (crisis lyrics)
Yesterday, all my Soros seemed so far away Now it look as though they're here to play Oh, I believe in yesterday
Suddenly, Baht's(or insert name of other currency) not half the worth it used to be There's a short sell hanging over it oh, yesterday came suddenly
Why funds had to go I don't know, they wouldn't say I said something wrong, now I long for yesterday
Yesterday, shares was such an easy game to play Now I need a place to hide away oh, I believe in yesterday
Why funds had to go I don't know, they wouldn't say I said something wrong, now I long for yesterday
Yesterday, shares was such an easy game to play Now I need a place to hide away oh, creditors, please go away Mm
[edit] neutrality
The tone of this article is far from neutral. It treats cavalierly the views of economists such as Stiglitz. Even though their views are well founded.
Furthermore towards the end the author declares flat out that macro economic polices are not sustainable. This is a matter of opinion and should be qualified asuch in stead of being stated as fact.
Then there is the role of the IMF during the crises itself. The article mentions IMF rescue packages but fails to mention the contents of those packages and their effect in either deepening or alleviating the crisis
[edit] Title needs "1997" in it
The title of this article should be "Asian financial crisis of 1997" or "1997 Asian financial crisis". This wasn't the first and won't be the last "Asian financial crisis". Tempshill 18:58, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Thailand millions and billions
- In 1996, an American hedge fund had already sold $400 million of the Thai currency.
This line is without context and needs additional information to make it meaningful. (a) What was the direct effect that this sale had on the baht? (b) Failing that, how did this amount compare to the money supply of the baht? (c) Was this a short sale or a sale? (d) Which hedge fund? If this information is not estimatable then it would be good to cite a source explaining what was the significance of this action.
- On 11 August, the IMF unveiled a rescue package for Thailand with more than 16 billion dollars. The IMF approved on 20 August, another bailout package of 3.9 billion dollars.
The "bailout package" should be explained briefly. Where does the money go? Who are the direct and indirect beneficiaries? Tempshill 19:05, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Glaring omission
This article hardly mentions the role of hot money inflows as a central role of the crisis, which is shocking since the withdrawal of short term securities investments is integral to both the currency collapse and the constrictive interest rate policy of these countries. There is mention of Latin America but there should be at least one specific mention of the Mexican peso crisis of 1994, widely seen as a precursor to this.
George Soros mention needs to be contextualized into the Malaysian PM's statement and the specific allegations against him. The same goes with the IMF. Overall, this article is junk and has huge omissions.
I've made a quick and dirty improvement on this article but it really is going to take more cleaning up. 18.251.5.237 17:35, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] China references
Removed Gordon Chang's The Coming Collapse of China since the crisis of 1998 wasn't the main topic. A reference to Lardy would be good, but he didn't write China Dream.
Roadrunner 07:10, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Malaysia and IMF
It seems to me that Malaysia and the IMF needs to be mentioned more. Since Malaysia AFAIK largely ignored the IMF's recommendations and offers it's from what I can gather an interesting case study often used to try and ascertain whether the IMF policies were really a bad idea or not. While as with most economic issues, there doesn't appear to be any real agreement, and comparing Malaysia and it's recovery with other countries like Indonesia, Thailand etc is difficult it seems to me that some mention needs to be made of the comparison between Malaysia and other countries which more followed the IMF more. + It seems to me that Malaysia and the IMF needs to be mentioned more. Since Malaysia AFAIK largely ignored the IMF's recommendations and offers it's from what I can gather an interesting case study often used to try and ascertain whether the IMF policies were really a bad idea or not. While as with most economic issues, there doesn't appear to be any real agreement, and comparing Malaysia and it's recovery with other countries like Indonesia, Thailand etc is difficult it seems to me that some mention needs to be made of the comparison between Malaysia and other countries which more followed th - - == Name == - - I'm a Malaysian and a New Zealander and I have to say, I rarely hear of this crisis called the East Asian financial crisis or the IMF financial crisis. Mostly, it's called the Asian financial crisis. I appreciate that there are people that call it the IMF crisis and the East Asian financial crisis and the fact that Malaysia largely ignored the IMF means the IMF doesn't cop much of a blame for the problems in Malaysia (Soros and currency speculators are the general targets) so things are seen a little different there (no arguments on the fairness of any of these assessments I'm simply pointing out how things are seen). - - So I'm not suggesting we remove mention of these names but I wonder whether Asian financial crisis might be the better primary name for the article since there is no other financial crisis that generally goes by the name and IMHO anyway, it's the most common name for it. Also, IMHO anyway again Asian financial crisis is the more accurate name. Most people, I believe tend to think of East Asia as China, North Korea, South Korea, Japan, (Taiwan), perhaps Mongolia and this is also the definition supported by wikipedia. South East Asian countries such as Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia etc are usually not thought of as parts of East Asia even though you could argue technically they are. - - While I dislike Google searches as proof of popularity, a Google search does also support my theory since "East Asian financial crisis" finds only 100k whereas "Asian financial crisis" nearly 2 million. While Asian financial crisis will also find East Asian financial crisis and other things such as people talking about a future Asian financial crisis, this does seem to indicate that Google's index supports that Asian financial crisis is the more popular term. NB, interestingly enough, one of the links to East Asian finacial crisis is a speech by some Thai minister to the ASEAN conference. - - Nil Einne 13:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC) - - == Neutrality and other issues == - - I think someone, preferbly someone who knows more about economics needs to go through this article. While some parts of it are written well enough, other parts need to be improved because they currently present the POVs of some economists as facts rather then POVs. I can't be bothered giving any specific examples but I do feel it needs to be looked at by someone Nil Einne 13:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC) - - ==Combined financial and currency crisis== - - The title of this article should be East Asian currency and Financial Crisis. The crisis was a so-called twin crisis where the exchange rate regime collapses together with the financial system. The title is a first indication of the incredibly low quality of this article. The section on the causes is best described as belonging to a high school paper. It is simplistic, superficial and misleading in places. Now it is just rubbish. MartinDK 15:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
