Talk:Ásatrú

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).

Contents

[edit] Pronounciation

If you know the corerct Pronounciation for the words defined here, could you please define it, using one of the Wikipedia standards. Thanks. Richard Allen 11:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scope of the Ásatrú entry

The Ásatrú entry has been resurrected and the general consensus is that this entry is specifically confined to people and groups who self-identify themselves as Ásatrú and exclusively follow the Eddaic religion. This entry specifically does not encompass the entire Germanic Heathen milieu or Neonazi groups. When editing or adding to this entry, please also consider that there are separate entries specifically for the following subjects, and whether your edits would be more appropriate there:

This has been a controversial subject in the past. Please observe the thews of Wikipedia:

HroptR 05:33, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

View Wiktionary þēaw if you don't know about thews. Metarhyme 14:54, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

There are many new links which have been added to the end of this article, which violate the umbrella people and groups who self-identify themselves as Ásatrú and exclusively follow the Eddaic religion that we came to consensus on when this entry branched off from Germanic Neopaganism. The Odinic Rite and several other groups which have been added *do not* identify themselves as Ásatrú. Links for this and other such groups belong at Germanic Neopaganism. Also, the Rune Gild is distinctly *not* a religious group - anyone of any religion or belief can be a member of the RG. - WeniWidiWiki 17:38, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I can see your point but those link are in the "see also" section. Do links there need to be groups that self describe as Asatru? Many OR members use Asatru and Odinism interchangably as do many practitioners of Asatru. I don't really mind either way but I can see the relevance of some of those links in the see also section.

The "See also" section can be anything related to the subject, so I don't see anything that needs to be removed there. The Ásatrú entry - much like the Odinic Rite entry has gotten so big that it needs to be separate from the umbrella Germanic Neopaganism. People's propensity to turn every Heathen and Recon related entry into a link-farm has been a problem in the past, and it's starting to get bad again... I'm not advocating the removal of the links from wikipedia, just for them to be moved to their more relevant respective entries. - WeniWidiWiki 19:07, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging with Germanic neopaganism

As far as I have observed in Germany, and if you look araound in the Internet. The article's definition of Asatru as non-neo-Nazi Eddaic is not widely used in the scene. Wikipedia should stick to the broad use. E.g. the German neo-Nazi Artgemeinschaft has reserved both the domains asatru.de and asatru.eu E.g. four political tolerant groups (German Eldaring, Danish Forn Sidr, Dutch Het Rad and the Íslenska Ásatrúarfélagið) have reserved asatru.info

In Academic publications these two terms are used interchangably. I therefore strongly advice to merge these two articles. Everything wouldn't express the way the term Asatru is used. The Merging of the categories must follow as well. --Levthanatos 09:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

what evidence do you have that "In Academic publications these two terms are used interchangably"? I realize the terms are often lumped together, but I advise against merging. It has been discussed, scope and variant uses of the term are properly declared, and the risk of misunderstanding has been minimized. Keep in mind that we need to optimize Wikipedia against well-meaning but little-informed kneejerk additions. I think things work best as they are now, your merger would destabilize what we have put considerable effort into stabilizing: this is my advice based on my experience with the topic here on WP, but I will not bicker about it, so you will meet no actual resistance from me. dab (ᛏ) 19:23, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The Thing is: The term Asatru as part of Germanic neopaganism, for those who are a) eddaic and b) non-neo-Nazi, is as far I have experienced and as one can see from the Organisation's websites as just another name for Germanic neopaganism.
E.g. Michael Lenz in this articles: Is he Asatru or just Germanic neopagan? One cannot really seperate this. There are racist neopagans who call themselves Asatru. There is IMO no wide-accepted definition of Asatru that would differ from that of Germanic neopaganism--Levthanatos 12:53, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
well, I think I do understand the problem. This is really no different than with other designations. What is a "Christian"? There are two approaches to the question,
a) anybody who self-designates as "Christian"
b) anybody who fulfills certain criteria, such as accepting that Christ has historically lived, was crucified and rose from the dead, and furthermore accepts the gospel as an authority over their own lives, etc.
for most practical purposes, the two approaches will yield almost identical results, in fact, b) is really just an abstraction, an algorithm intended to yield the members enumerated in a). In a given biography, it may be a matter of taste whether the subject's denomination is given as "Christian" or as "Lutheran", with both a possibility. I am not sure "non-Nazi" is a requirement for qualifying as "Asatru" any more than as "Christian", in fact the contradiction seems to be more straightforward in the "Christian" case, yet you will probably not find "non-Nazi" in any definition of "Christianity".
regarding the difference between "Asatru" and "Germanic Neopaganism" in general, it is clear that the former is at least a true subset of the latter, according to some definitions they may coincide. But as you say yourself,
The term Asatru as part of Germanic neopaganism, for those who are a) eddaic (emphasis mine)
"Asatru" proper is equivalent to Eddaic Neopaganism, not 'Germanic' in general. The difference is significant, since there are reconstructionist movements that do not rely no the Edda (notably Anglo-Saxon groups). The tendency I observe at least in Switzerland seems to be to move away from using "Asatru" in a loose sense in favour of "Forn Sed" and related terms: translated into the local idiom, this group of terms adequately expresses what is intended without making implications about things Eddaic. dab (ᛏ) 14:04, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I must agree with Dieter's assertions here. Germanic neopaganism is an 'umbrella' term, a generic description much like 'Christianity' or 'Islam'. 'Heathen' and its multitude of translated variants (heithni, heithinn, et cetera) can serve as equivalents of 'Germanic neopaganism', but Asatru as well as Ásatrú are distinct varieties. I can think of at least half a dozen of such without even trying very hard.
→ P.MacUidhir (t) (c) 04:13, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm opposed to the suggested merge. I was going to make an argument, but I see that all the points I would have made have already been stated, so I'll simply add my agreement.

Steve Lowther 04:35, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox

If a relevant infobox could be added on the right side it would be very helpful. Thanks. -Emiellaiendiay 23:51, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] changes needed

this entry seems as if it were translated from a foreign language and then simply cut and pasted, there is a great deal of minor errors present. I did my best to clean it up, but it looks like it still needs work... also, there seems to be too much opinion involved in the entry HammerHeadHuman 05:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] new?

Ásatrú (Icelandic "Æsir faith") is a new religious movement which is attempting to revive the Norse paganism of the Viking Age

Ásatrú originated as a second (or third) revival of Germanic paganism in the 1960s and early 1970s

I object to this. it's the same as the original viking faith (or trying to be the same?), and I believed it was called Ásatrú back then as well.

suggestion: Ásatrú is an old religious faith of the viking age, which has recently been revived. Thoes who currently practice it are part of the second (or third) revival of this faith.

How can it be "the same"? Do you have a time-machine? The term Ásatrú is relatively modern. This is covered in the etymology and has been discussed at length. Please cite sources. - WeniWidiWiki 22:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
"trying to be the same" is fair enough. But then Lutheranism is also "trying to be the same" as Early Christianity, and we still wouldn't call it identical. it was not "called Ásatrú back then as well" either; if you'd be willing to read this article, you will learn that the term is 19th century coinage. dab (𒁳) 09:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../%C3%A1/s/a/Talk%7E%C3%81satr%C3%BA_330c.html"