Image talk:&-20013;&-33775;&-27665;&-22283;&-20840;&-22294;.jpg

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Debate moved from Wikipedia:Image sleuthing:

• Used in Political divisions of China, Political divisions of the Republic of China, and History of the political divisions of China.
• The ROC map looks like its scan from a book so it could be a bit difficult to find a source for. Evil Monkey → Talk 01:31, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
• There are likely replacements at the Perry-Castañeda Library Map Collection at the University of Texas at Austin. See [1], [2], and [3]. The FAQ for the collection states, Most of the maps scanned by the University of Texas Libraries and served from this web site are in the public domain. No permissions are needed to copy them. You may download them and use them as you wish. A few maps are copyrighted, and are clearly marked as such.[4] - Kbh3rd 03:22, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Or not ... I see that that's the ROC's version of China, frozen since 1949, and therefore likely different in the details from these maps. Kbh3rd 03:28, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Exactly. This map (中華民國全圖) reflects the historical situation of the ROC ca. 1947 modulo wishful thinking. In fact, the Interior(?) Ministry stopped issuing these maps recently, according to several reports. Xinhua --MarkSweep 09:31, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Hm. Then maybe we should stop using them too. What's a good map to use in its place? – Quadell ^{(talk) (sleuth)} 00:20, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)
• No, we should still use it. In fact, this map is being used in one article to illustrate the (constructed) historical situation as claimed by the ROC government for 40 or more years. Just because they've changed their mind about recapturing the mainland doesn't mean this map isn't of historical interest. --MarkSweep 03:15, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Okay, so we should still use it. . . but it might be a copyvio. Perhaps some hardworking soul could modify Image:China administrative.png or Image:Smaller map of China.png with the information on this map (中華民國全圖), so that the image will be available under a free license. Anyone up to it? – Quadell ^{(talk) (sleuth)} 16:08, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)
• The only way would be to trace the same map over. I don't know how else one can get the claims extending into Tuva, northern Myanmar, Tajikistan, and the Russian Far East, not to mention all those tiny provinces in Manchuria. -- ran (talk) 07:13, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)
• Don't forget Mongolia. --MarkSweep 15:56, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

• Okay, folks. In three days, if copyright info isn't found on this (and it probably won't be), this image will be listed on Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. If someone doesn't recreate the map, we're going to lose the info. – Quadell ^{(talk) (sleuth)} 15:04, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)
  • I left a request on Wikipedia:Image recreation requests for it. – Quadell ^{(talk) (sleuth)} 20:15, Jan 29, 2005 (UTC)
    • Great, that's a useful new project. Let's keep this image around for a little while longer then. --MarkSweep 23:23, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

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Discussion moved from Wikipedia:Image recreation requests.

• Image:&-20013;&-33775;&-27665;&-22283;&-20840;&-22294;.jpg - This one will be more difficult. This is a map of China, showing the claims that the ROC made in 1948. It's historically important, but it's under copyright, so a new map needs to be made showing the same claims. See also this. – Quadell ^{(talk) (sleuth)} 15:55, Jan 29, 2005 (UTC)

  this may not actually need replacing (depending on its original creation date) China was not an international copyright signatory until around 1980 something.  ALKIVAR™ 03:15, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

  It is a map published by the Republic of China (Taiwan). — Instantnood 00:16, Jan 31 2005 (UTC)

  That's right, and until sometime in the late 1990s (if I remember correctly) the ROC continued to issue these maps as the official map of the Republic of China. (That's the ROC, not the People's Republic of China - PRC). Nor has the Republic of China ever formally renounced its claims over these areas.

  The value of the map is mainly in the old provincial boundaries (~1948) and all of the territorial claims that the PRC (not ROC) has abandoned: Mongolia, Tuva, northern Burma, etc. -- ran (talk) 19:37, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)

  Was/is the ROC a signatory? — Instantnood 09:11, Jan 2 2005 (UTC)

  I suppose that depends on whether the ROC was/is a separate country. This has of course been a rather contentious issue, historically. – Quadell ^{(talk) (sleuth)} 13:48, Feb 2, 2005 (UTC)

  If ROC itself is not a signatory, and its interests is not represented by PRC, then the image need not be removed and recreated. — Instantnood 18:37, Jan 2 2005 (UTC)

  I finally did some work on this one. The result is called Image:ROC_map_notext.png. I used the two maps mentioned above and tried to make them match each others. I'm not sure the result is doing the article a good favor. It's GFDL, wich is good, but the map is not likely to be 100% correct because the two maps didn't match very well. I run into problems when I tried to add chinese labels to the map, so I'll have to leave that to someone else. Please add commentes and suggestions. The map was made in Illustrator so it could be uploaded in any size. / Mats Halldin 17:12, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC) (If you are using IRC you can find me there most of the time. My nick is "riorio")

  Great work Mats Halldin! But then the boundary of ROC and PRC are not actually the same. There are slight differences notably with northern Burma, Tuva and Pakistan and Afghanistan. The limits of the Mongolia Area was also not the same as the present-day state of Mongolia.

  By the way, would anybody consider keeping or recreating the ROC map as a map showing relief and landscape of the China region and vicinity? This map is a very good one, and is useful for the Geography of China article. — Instantnood 22:00, Feb 14 2005 (UTC)

[edit] As a map of landscape

Would anybody consider keeping or recreating the ROC map as a map showing relief and landscape of the China region and vicinity? This map is a very good one, and is useful for the Geography of China article. — Instantnood 10:26, Feb 15 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright status

Article 9 of the s:en:Copyright Act (Republic of China) says:

The following items shall not be the subject matter of copyright:

1.　　　The constitution, acts, regulations, or official documents.

2.　　　Translations or compilations by central or local government agencies of works referred to in the preceding subparagraph.

3.　　　Slogans and common symbols, terms, formulas, numerical charts, forms, notebooks, or almanacs.

4.　　　Oral and literary works for news reports that are intended strictly to communicate facts.

5.　　　Test questions and alternative test questions from all kinds of examinations held pursuant to laws or regulations.

The term "official documents" in the first subparagraph of the preceding paragraph includes proclamations, text of speeches, news releases, and other documents prepared by civil servants in the course of carrying out their duties.

Whether this map is an "official document" depends on who prepared it. commons:Image:ROC_map_1998.jpg has the same map.--Jusjih 14:19, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image replacement candidate for Republic of China?

I created this blue map on top:

As a possible replacement for the fair-use image currently on the ROC page. I adapted it from the PRC map.

Since this is a created image, it's categorized as a GNU image and should not have the legal problems of the fair-use image. What do you think? --Pryaltonian 22:35, 27 October 2006 (UTC)